Couch 202: The Grande Unicorn Frappuccino couch.

I think you very much need to love and be loved.

What's a "bei"? Is it the same as a "bae"?

I agree with Daisy. You need as much support as you need. If current T can't provide you with maybe more then maybe it would be a good idea to try to find someone new.

I read it as "being on call "

Yup, typo

It was just a thought. But of course you and I rarely draw the same conclusion over anything let alone interpret anything the same way.

Another reason I’m thinking about switching therapists is that I often long to feel comforted, and my T told me last session that he is willing to try to give me that but that he’s “not a naturally nurturing person.” That threw me for a loop—I mean, the man has two children, how the hell does he care for them if he’s not all that nurturing??

It also annoyed me that prior to me talking about leaving therapy with him, his argument was that he didn’t think that comfort in therapy would be good for me—something about getting care and concern only through my illness being bad for me. Now that I’m putting a foot out the door he’s not making that particular protestation. Did his theory about what’s right for me change? Or was his initial theoretical argument against comfort just an excuse?

Informal couch poll: do y’all want your Ts to be nurturing towards you?

I did for the first few years in therapy..but I had strong paternal transference and she was the good enough mother.

I will never go back to therapy but I don’t think I would want that if I did have a therapist. I would just want the therapist to hold their professional boundaries for the 50 minutes a week I pay them.

Yes. I feel like I need that and tell him that I want comfort from him. Sometimes he feels softer and more gentle with me.

(There is no physical touch between us though.)

Yes, to some extent. I wish T was more nurturing, but as he says, he's caring but not "warm and fuzzy." He does have nurturing moments at times, and it makes me crave more. I saw his backup T, R, on Thursday, and I'd had a really emotional session. When I left, she put her hand on my back, like in a nurturing, comforting way. It felt nice. But I know T would never do that--I think shaking hands is his limit in touch. Sometimes I think that's a good thing though, because with some paternal and some erotic transference, it might be confusing in a way, like too much, or make me feel even more attached. At the same time, I was thinking that before he left on vacation, if maybe he could have squeezed my hand for a second after shaking it or, say, put his other hand over mine for a second and said, "You'll get through this, it will be OK," that would have really meant a lot (and I don't think I'd have misinterpreted that). But I'm so afraid to ask for anything else, even if it seems really minor, because rejection would really hurt. Even if I said, "I know you don't hug, and I respect that, but sometimes I wish you could," I'm afraid that instead of just discussing that desire and normalizing it, he might just be like, "No, I don't hug."

It's not just about physical nurturing, it's verbal as well. Sometimes he's great at that and can make me feel really cared for. Other times, it just feels like he completely misses the mark, like initially saying, "Enjoy!" as his parting words to me in the session before his vacation. I started crying, and he added a (warm) "Take care of yourself." But why did he even think that "Enjoy" was appropriate, when he knows I struggle with his vacations, plus I've actually told him before that I don't like "Enjoy."


Sorry for the ramble--this has just been on my mind since T's vacation, particularly since I saw R Thursday. Not sure whether to address any of it when he comes back tomorrow.

I hope you can bring it up with him LT.

Umm miss mean girl that kind of behavior will get you off OUR christmas card list. Imagine the postal costs of sending a batch of homemade cookies all the way to Michigan from little ol' Seattle.

The others were all from movies I've watched. Think you might like the island. which didn't get fab reviews, but i really liked it + it had scarlet johanson in it.

I was actually listening to Charlie and the chocolate factory a few days ago. The first time I even heard of Dahl I was when I was 11 and we had a school trip to a bookstore and we had someone read to us from the book "the twits" and it was like lurrve at first site.

Ooooh you never told me your a mathmagican and a comedian too! You gotta learn to laugh but I'm sorry you had to go though that.

Yes. I needed my nurturing bucket filled. It was EMPTY.

No I did not. But I also didn't think the woman was capable of it. She was a-nurturing.
The second one was not anyone I pictured as being nurturing either.

At first I liked it when they were (this is 1 and 3). With 3 it was such a disaster that no, not anymore, no way, no how.

Info has faults but isn’t nurturing, at least not with me.

I think from my experience and some of the stories I’ve read on here that using a therapist as kind of a substitute parent to get nurturing or as a love hack has a higher risk of ending badly depending on the therapist. It’s pretty tempting, though.

Thanks, Lemon. Not sure if I'll do that tomorrow or wait till another session. I may share some of it, just not all at once. It's just various things have been building up, but individually they seem so small that I haven't wanted to make a big deal about them. Which is kind of repeating patterns in my life, I guess. Things like how he doesn't stand up when we shake hands or when I leave, that I have to open the door myself. While R walked me out into the hall (and ex-T and ex-MC always stood and opened the door). It seems so minor, but it keeps bugging me. And I suspect he'll say I'm the only client to have commented on it (like some other things), so I'll feel like a needy weirdo. There's other little things, too.

And I wouldn't be surprised if I see him and it will feel like "Yay, my T is back," and I will just want to appreciate that for a bit rather than airing my grievances.

Yes!

I have had T’s that refused to be nurturing. Some felt my needs were not appropriate and some were, as your T said, not nurturing people. Two were moms. I saw one interact with her young child and terminated shortly after. The other I saw with her adult daughter and their relationship struck me as odd but they still had a loving connection. That T didn’t work for me well either.

I didn’t think current T would be nurturing at all seeing as he is a man. I was SO wrong. He is probably the most nurturing person I have ever met... which often causes me great confusion. He will hug me, hold my hand or put his hand on my knee for nurturing support during session or if I just need to feel connected. When we talked about the profound neglect as an infant T told me this whole story about if he had met me as an infant he would have held me, cradled me and told me the things he would have said to baby me. It was extremely nurturing without kicking my guard up. But then my T doesn’t see me as sick at all. He sees me as having a lot of unmet needs and carrying a lot of painful memories.

How do you define being nurtured in therapy? What did your therapist do that was nurturing or what would you like them to do?

LT, for what it is worth that would bug me too. Sitting while someone leaves is just rude (I’m old school) and I can’t even imagine not standing to shake hands. The things he says sound self centered to me. Last session my T was getting ready to spend time with his brother for the weekend. T was not as fully present to me as he usually is as he was obviously very excited about the upcoming weekend. Then this coming week he is working away from the office so we don’t have a session. T would NEVER say enjoy or anything like that. He always validates the difficulty I have with him being gone and usually either reminds me of things to help feel connected or reminds me I can call or email if I need to. But I hate his voicemail!!!! I try to hold the phone away but then I can’t hear the beep. Anyway, his voicemail tells clients to make the day a good one. Sets me off every time. But, most of his clients aren’t like us.

I have 4 black cats crossing the path out of my bed. So far I have not crossed them but I may need to think about it soon. They are awefully cute all passed out sleepy nights. Then the house feral is on the floor staring at me. Crossing her would be dangerous

I learned a new word from economics: monopsony, a market with one buyer.

Example: Info is a monopsony for houndstooth-checked three-big-ruffled off-the-shoulder peasant-style blouses.

Thanks, Omers, it helps to know that you get it. I agree about how most of their clients aren't like us. It's difficult for me at times because it will feel like T is really getting it with me, that he's adapting to my needs, that he understands, then he'll do the "Enjoy!" thing. Or when I emailed him Thursday night to say I felt really emotional after my session with R and asked for words of encouragement/confirmation that he's still there, one of the things he said was "Hope you have an excellent day today!" Which just seemed more reflective of his mood than mine. Something like, "I hope you got some rest last night and are feeling better this morning" is more what I'd want. But then I feel that's expecting too much, like mindreading, I don't know...But I've also told him this multiple times... I'd be bothered by your T's voicemail, too! (I've only heard my T's once, and I wasn't paying that close attention.)

I'm glad you agree about the standing up thing, too. I just feel silly mentioning it after approaching 2 years now, but it's always bothered me. I know he's likely going to do something on the computer after I leave, so maybe he figures "why bother standing up?" especially if I'm leaving right at the end of the full hour. But still, how long does it take to stand up then sit back down (he's fairly short, too!) Or even to walk the 3 feet to the door and open it. It's not like I'm asking him to walk me out to the waiting room, down the elevator, and to my car or something.

I think it comes down to my not wanting to be a bother or an annoyance to people, which comes up again and again in my therapy. So maybe talking to him about this would help? Because beyond just stuff with him, it could lead to a bigger conversation, like about other stuff in life as well.

I had to stop the woman getting up to come at me and open the door. I always felt like she was making sure I would really leave or that she thought I couldn't find the door that was 4 feet away. She seemed surprised when I told her stop it. And I had to get her to stop the hand shaking thing as well. She was quicker on the hand shaking stop than she was on the getting up to get me out the door. I assured her I was as ready to leave as she was to have me do so.

Hugs, LT. That would bug me too, the not standing up when you leave thing. I'm old-school too like Omers said and to me it's just an automatic politeness thing. When I read your IST reports and you say that you shook hands etc I always picture you both standing up. L has always, always walked me to the door even during year 1 before we ever started hugging at the door. Several times she's come outside with me, once she even walked all the way to my car with me. (that was kinda odd but I liked it all the same. It's not really a privacy issue cuz she lives out in the country on a gravel road.) If it bothers you I think it's certainly worth talking about with him.