Couch 203: The Spam and Cool Whip Couch!

Ugh, I'm sorry, NP. That doesn't seem right at all...

I think I do need to terminate with my T. I'm having trouble thinking of what he could say today to make me change my mind. Even if he apologizes profusely...Which he won't. He was putting his own feelings first. How is that being a responsible therapist? Yes, I know many of you think it wasn't that harsh of an email, that T was just giving it to me straight. But it really hurt (his email, not replies on here). Even if he was speaking the truth, I feel he was kicking me when I was down. I wish I didn't love him, it would make all of this easier.

On the positive side, all this led to a really good conversation with my H last night, and I feel genuinely cared for and loved by him.

I think you are being a bit reactive and might should sit on this decision for a bit. Go back and read the last few things you wrote about your therapist before the whole drinking thing happened. They say don’t make major decisions in a heightened emotional state,

I tend to agree with ArtleyWilkins.
A bit more than a year ago, I was having a crisis. Somebody I was close to was dying, a friend suddenly stopped talking to me and I had normal life stress on top of that. I contacted my T quite a bit, and even though he knew what was going on, he only gave me very short phone calls. He later on admitted that they were shorter than usual (and normally in this situation he'd have given me extra appointments anyways). It was his mistake. I was suicidal during a lot of this and he knew, yet he decided to not give me a lot of support. He agreed that this was a mistake on his side later, but at the time his behavior made everything much worse.

I still decided to stick with him and he hasn't let me down again so far. But he's already said that this will probably happen again in some form, that sometimes Ts have bad days, weeks, months. It just is that way and we can get through that together.

I agree with you, in the state you were when emailing your T, his response was not appropriate. It should have been softer, he knew how you were feeling, you clearly said so in your email.
You were thinking about terminating before. All I'd suggest is thinking about whether you only want to terminate due to this one email exchange or whether this is something that has been coming a long time and this was just the final straw. If there's a lot of things that bother you, that you can't work through, then of course it's okay to search for somebody else or even quit therapy all together. But if it's 'only' due to the email, I'd maybe wait for emotions to calm down just a bit, to see whether this is really what you want.

Thanks, Artley and CNS. I probably should sit on it some. See what he has to say to me today. I think I just feel like he's sick of me. As he has every right to be. He likely feels stuck because he seems to have vowed not to terminate me. So unless I leave, he's trapped. I just hate it because up until the whole "standing" thing earlier this month, things had been going well between us. But this was like two ruptures right in a row. Both with harsh emails from him where he said it felt like I was trying to control him (about the standing), and now he's saying I'm being manipulative. I felt really sad last night thinking about some of the good moments I've had with him, even in the past month in the midst of the ruptures. Like I don't want to lose that relationship. But I also can't deal with harsh emails when I'm just trying to get support. What happens next time I'm feeling that way? I feel like T is taking something out on me, like maybe I trigger him in some way. Maybe he's actually really concerned about me and isn't sure how to help me, and it's all coming out wrong. I just don't even know what to say to him today. I can't keep having this happen. I again went like 24 hours without eating (I did finally eat something last night). I haven't done any sort of packing for the trip I leave for tomorrow morning. I have tons of work I need to do before that (took some extra to cover extra T session and got more than I'd expected) and am having trouble focusing on that.

I don't know...but I'm also scared to walk away without having someone else in place. I did reach out to that other T I saw once before earlier this year to ask if she had anything next week, without saying what was going on, and I will likely try emailing a few other T's later today if I can find the time, depending on how session goes. And I reached out to T's backup to see if she could possibly do a phone session while I'm out of town (because T is out of town starting Wednesday).

I just feel like a little kid waiting for Daddy to yell at me more. Because that's what I'm scared will happen in session. That he or I will say something that we can't take back, that will be the true end. I guess I should just try to go with an open mind. I know I need to apologize, but I feel he needs to apologize too. I don't know...I'm scared...

And maybe... I don't know...

Maybe it's nothing as intricate as any of the things you suggest. Maybe he is just a mediocre therapist who isn't attuned to you.

Is he sick of you or are you sick of him? Does he feel trapped because he can't terminate the therapy or do you feel trapped because he won't terminate the therapy?

Going out on a limb here. Didn't you mention a month or so ago that he went to a funeral? Plus seemed more down in general, maybe due to his injury and not being able to do his sports much?

I'm not saying that excuses everything he's done/is doing, but maybe he really just has some stuff of his own going on and has trouble not letting it come into your sessions? It seems like you're currently putting a lot of pressure on yourself for things that might well bother him, but really, a client shouldn't bother a T so much that they overreact.

Just go into the session and say how the emails made you feel, I'm almost sure he won't yell at you (he really doesn't seem like the type to yell at clients). Then hopefully you can take a few days off from him with your trip, think everything through, maybe see some of those other Ts you contacted or will still contact, see what they say... there's no need to rush through this.

And whatever your final decision will be, I'm sure people on here will support you with it and try to help in whatever way they can!

LT- something I am trying to tell myself this regarding my own t....

Support comes in different ways, and words. You are mad because you didn’t get the response that you wanted from t. However, the majority of the people who read his email say he is being a good t. And sometimes being a good t “hurts.” Not in a bad way that he is abusing his power, but the truth hurts sometimes. Maybe you did trigger him a bit, but I read his email differently. I saw a caring t in there. He is the kind of t who wants his client to be able to find their own reason to live, and hope within themselves and not always from the external things like a t. Sure, we all need somebody to lean on. But I think you lean on your ts for things that you need to learn to give yourself. That is what t wants for you and sounds like that has been his goal for you in therapy all along.

I have said this before to you, you tend to make your therapy about relationship between you and t. And while it’s good to examine elements of your relationship with t off and on. The therapy is still not supposed to be all about the relationship.

My opinion is that if you leave this t now.. you are going to repeat the cycle with another t. If you stay, maybe you and t can work through this and the email and resulting issues will have a good lesson for you and him in there.

Good luck today.

Thanks, CNS. I have been wondering about stuff going on in his personal life. So he could be particularly sensitive about certain topics. There's also the thing about his not wearing his wedding ring for months. (Though I suppose he could have just lost it or something.)

I think I need to try to go in there with an open mind, talk about how I'm feeling, see what he says. I think it will also help to see his body language, how he's acting toward me in general. And not make any decisions about termination yet (assuming he doesn't say anything really awful). That way I have less pressure on myself, too.

And I do appreciate everyone's support.

This was my take away from the first email. it felt supportive but didnt say dont feel ashamed rather, you can use this for change I believe it.

The second email was more defensive. I believe he has his back up. no excuse that's what I see.

LT you are reacting very strong I believe to project your feeling of shame somewhere else. I would wonder how you would feel this time next week. When I was angry at T I waited and presented it in session, we had a much clearer discussion that way.

I think you see it from a POV of "I was so emotional I wanted to die how could he not save me???" and he probably sees it as a reaction to how you were feeling shame and tries to address that.

There is caring here I think. He responded to what was causing your reaction. He told feeling shame is normal and maybe a driver for change but he didnt respond to the reaction itself (feeling sui) whether that is right or not is up to you but I would let your reaction to this event destroy you in this way.

LT, you've got lots of mind reading going on in that post. You say you think he is tired of you, etc.

I still don't think this is about your T. You keep trying to make it about his sitting instead of standing or his email, or whatever that latest minutia is that you get distracted by, etc. You are trying to get him to "fix" how you are feeling (which is a power thing for you), and when he refuses to do what you are trying so desperately to try to get him to do, you get angry because he perhaps is one of the first people to be totally honest with you and expect you to deal honestly with him AND YOURSELF. He's saying, "Stop the mind games WITH YOURSELF. Stop trying to get me to be your 'fixer'". His trying to get you unstuck. I don't think he's feeling stuck with you; I think he's seeing how stuck YOU are and is trying to move a rather immovable object. You've got to start doing that for yourself. You appear to want your husband or MC or T or alcohol to "make you feel better," to relieve your pain, but things will only truly get better when you start utilizing your internal resources to hold yourself responsible for your own thoughts and emotions and actions.

I'm trying not to be harsh, and I suspect I'm failing at it. My apologies for that, but you are a smart woman. I really respect you, and I trust your ability to take the time for introspection. I've heard a great deal of rationalization in your posts lately: rationalizing your drinking, rationalizing your running from T. Maybe it's time to stay put and decide to make the big changes that really will make a difference. I don't think changing therapists will be a big change that will really make a difference if you just go to a different therapist expecting that therapist to make you feel better and then leave again when they fall short of that ideal.

Someone earlier mentioned that you probably need to get with an addiction specialist. I don't disagree with that. I think alcohol addiction is a large part of why you are stuck and keep coming back to this place over and over again, and you've spent a great deal of time rationalizing that which is a rather strong signal that it is a bigger part of this picture than you want to admit.

I think your T is working really hard not to feed your addiction. I think he can be helpful to you but he won't be a hand-holder. He's going to be real with you, and that seems to be what scares you. I'm just not sure soft and fuzzy does anything for you but keep you sheltered.

You need someone to be real with you. Maybe that should be an addiction specialist. Maybe that can be your T. I don't know. What I do think will be a mistake is leaving simply to find another therapist who will hold your hand and become your focus again so you'll feel the warm fuzzies rather than keeping the focus on the hard work you really need to do so that you can utilize your own inner resources rather than other people or alcohol to avoid the pain. It's just feeling rather lather, rinse, repeat.

If your therapist seemed unprofessional or incompetent in some way, it would make sense to drop him and move on, but your T has always seemed highly capable and pretty spot on with you. He honestly sounds very much like my therapist which may be why I like him. He's not an enabler. Maybe that's it. Is that what you are looking for? Yes, he can be very straight-forward, but as several of us have said, that's what worked for us in our own therapy -- someone who would tell it like it is and not put up with our crap. LOL!

I don't know, LT. I hope you'll step back and at least let this latest emotional flood ebb a bit before you make any major decision. You seem to be trying to find someone who will tell you what you want to hear instead of maybe what you need to hear, but I understand that impulse.

Please know I wrote all of this, again, with the greatest of respect for you. But I know I can be a bit straight forward myself -- guess my T rubbed off on me.

Just triggering for grief:

Thanks, Healed. I know this is a pattern with me. And we do spend lots of time talking about other stuff in my life, it's just therapeutic relationship stuff has taken a greater hold lately, and I don't know why. Actually, I think I know why it may have started--I think the last few months have been partly due to his vacations and also may have originally been triggered by lots of talk about my mom and his saying that I need to forgive her. I think that all triggered something in me. Because I didn't have that much paternal type transference for him for a long time (just ET), but now it seems to have shifted to all paternal stuff.

I would like him to help me figure all this out, but it's difficult when he seems to keep taking things personally. Like I know there's something else behind my threats to leave--I think it's all fear of abandonment and things like that. I'd want to address that more. But he just seems to be focusing on *his* feelings around it. I'm not saying he doesn't have the right to be upset, but I just think if I keep repeating a pattern that it's something that needs to be explored. Because this obviously isn't all actually about T, but he's reacting like it is.

Hugs, @@...

LT- good luck this AM. What time is T? Well in your time zone. Here it’s 8:45.

I couldn’t sleep for jack crap last night. The heat broke a bit on Friday so the weather has been perfect this weekend. It’s going to get hot again on Tuesday. I’m getting ready to take the dog for a 3 mile walk. I walked a whole lot yesterday. Took the dog on a 2 mile walk then hubby and I got in the car, drove to the shore and walked on the board walk. I’m less lazy when the weather is nice.

Thanks, Jersey. You're same time zone as me It's at 9:30.

Let us know how it goes-if you wish. (No really. Don’t leave us hanging)

I'll let you know!

Session with T went well. Was worried at first because he was wearing the marlin shirt (and jeans). It was difficult, but I think we some really good insights came out of it and will help to shape my work with him going forward.

He said that he was in fact frustrated with me Friday night (so I did read his tone correctly). He felt sort of trapped into replying to the first email, then responding to my response because of my mentioning . So he said partly concerns about liability, which he admitted was selfish. Like what if he didn't reply, then I did something? But he said his being frustrated with me didn't threaten our relationship, how everyone gets frustrated with people sometimes. That it can be healthy to express that frustration. I said I didn't really have models of that growing up--parents never argued in front of me, no siblings, my friends and I generally got along, till some stuff happened post-college. I described a major conflict with a friend from my 20s and he said it seems like I still have a wound from that. I agreed, and also mentioned my former best friend vanishing. Plus some romantic relationships that just sort of ended without warning and left me wondering what happened. T: "You shouldn't wonder what happened." Me: "What do you mean?" He said in the sense that things like that shouldn't come out of nowhere, that in a healthy relationship, you know where you stand, and that's what he's trying to model with me.

And we talked about how he's trying to avoid fostering dependence. And I said I know he's trying to do what he thinks is best for me, and it's like I'm punishing him for that, and I was sorry. He wondered why I need to get certain things from him/other therapist vs. friends, and I said male authority figure. We talked about that a bit, how one direction could be to figure out how to not see people as authority figures. Because he doesn't consider himself one to me. Also discussed my issues of object permanence, how that may be related to why I feel the need to reach out to and get replies from people (him, friends, PC, etc.), that I have trouble holding onto love and caring. So that's something else to work on. And some other stuff, including about the drinking--might post more later. Oh, and about how maybe emails aren't really so useful to me, so we discussed alternatives. He said I seemed to do best when I give emails, say, a 12-hour (or longer) waiting period first (and I often end up not sending at all, or else a really shortened, to-the-point version).

So, basically, yeah, he's trying to do things in my best interest, to help me grow and improve, to not be dependent. And he said that people need challenges to keep them improving, that if you kept running 5Ks and winning by a lot, you wouldn't be motivated to try to run faster, that you'd likely decrease your effort. It's clear he cares about me (I could see it in his eyes). Oh, and I said I worried he felt stuck with me because he doesn't want to give me a bad ending (like with ex-MC), so wouldn't feel he could terminate. He said he did feel he could terminate me, but that we'd have discussions about it long before it happened (I mean, barring something like me physically threatening him, but he said he couldn't see me doing that), he wouldn't just throw me out into the cold. And, for example, if we came to some sort of conflict we seemed unable to get past, that he'd likely suggest terminating so that I wouldn't be coming in wasting my time. Which I said made sense. (Is it weird that I felt somewhat relieved that he would be willing to terminate me?) And I paid at the end again, and he sat for that, then stood back up again to shake my hand...

Thanks for everyone's support and thoughts through this. I'm really glad I listened to some of you and chose to hear him out instead of just going and terminating.

ATAT - I hope it gets better today. Sorry to hear your father has been gone so long.
After reading your post, I realized my mother has been gone for almost 20 years. It doesn't feel that long to me.

I received a pack of plain tshirts today - I am ridiculously pleased about them.
Caution - cat/mouse/extermination talk below


I am frustrated with my inherited cat because he keeps bringing live mice in the house to play with and then he leaves them unkilled so I have to put mouse traps hidden under furniture so the pets can't get hurt and it is annoying. I think one of my dogs ate the live mouse last night.