Couch 248: Curiouser and Curiouser

I drafted a letter of complaint for my youngest sister to send to her landlord. Since she’s moved In there’s been constant building work in the house- which were originally promised to be over by December.

She called me tears, I booked a hotel room for her to stay the night as she has exams. She was also just upset at putting up with it for so long. Told her that she does actually have rights as a tenant as outlined in UK regulations.

My own garden singing accordion group is back, they didn’t bother me as much today. I’m just grateful I’m not living in a tent.

We have a plan for my sister. She’s going back to London today- stay with our parents, join a female only wework equivalent for a month. Travel back on exam days. No exams in July.

Whilst still paying in excess of £750 a month in rent for her current place. Thankfully her current contract ends in August, and she didn’t sign the extension for next year.

There’s an 11 year gap between us, but I was honestly surprised by how dysregulated she was.

(I know I used to be very unstable- but don’t feel therapy that taught me how to cope with distress, but it was the regular massages that helped more in getting back in my body).

My vacation next week couldn't be at a better time! I am quite fed up with stuff at work right now and am quickly slipping into the "I don't give a **** about any of this" attitude! I'm working only 2 days next week then on vacation through the 12th. Woohoo! I have also scheduled a 4-day weekend over the Memorial Day holiday, and then another 4-day weekend in early June. And a 3-day weekend at the end of June. I am going to be so very ready to retire from this corporate ******** in a little over 3 years. If I last that long without quitting. Ugh. I'm too old for this **** even at almost-62.

Art is sounds It sounds like you're feeling pretty burnt out from work. I hope you can disconnect completely from work-related matters and focus on activities that rejuvenate you.

Are there any work adjustments that could help alleviate some of the stress in terms of the hours you work or the number of shifts?

State pension age in the uk is 68.

Might not be for everyone,but lots of people do downsize their homes.

This fish thing with Dr. T has become a mess. Felt a bit better Tuesday, then I brought up something today (after talking about some other life stuff), and it went sideways.

I do think I stood up for myself. He said something like, "It seems you feel that the possibility that I won't bring the fish means that I don't care and the you aren't important to me."
Me: "Yes, that's what it feels like."
Dr. T: [silence]
Me: "So, other people in this situation might give some reassurance, like, 'Of course it isn't that.' But I know that's not a thing you do, so."

He then proceeded to give a bit of reassurance, but it was like he was being forced to do so under great duress. (Yes, I know, it could be argued that he was.) So it didn't seem sincere at all. Like [deep sigh], in a sort of robotic voice: "Yes, your success is important to me. I care about your happiness." I said it felt like he was just saying it, and he said, "You know I wouldn't lie, LT."

Yes, I know, I'm pushing too much about this. And it may not make sense to everyone (or even anyone!) why it's painful. I know the obvious solution is to take the fish back, but I'm not in the space for that right now. I ask kindly that you not tell me to do that. Apparently, offering an object like 10% of its size that is neutral-colored (more his aesthetic) and can fit in dish with other existing items (he has a bunch of them) is also controlling, even though I said I was just trying to give other options. The move is not until June (probably late in the month), so hopefully we can get to a place of peace/acceptance before then. I don't intend to talk about it every session. I have other things to talk about. But there's also part of me that feels doubtful about the relationship in general right now.

I'm sorry, LT.

I think I get it, LT. At least the importance of having part of yourself in that space. There was one item, a selenite crystal, that I gave L. I wanted it in the corner of her window so that the light flowing in would produce the energy of the crystal: peace and calm, mental clarity, and well-being. She was hesitant and said something along the lines of she didn't want people to have any misleading thoughts about her. It stung so bad. She did accept it even when she came back. It was the first (and only so far) item I've given back to her. I, too, wouldn't have wanted it back. It was just a crystal. But it has so much more meaning than that. I wanted a place in there with her. And not accepting it felt like she wasn't accepting me.

I could be wrong in my understanding. But I do feel for you. It's hard being the client.

Thanks, Artie.

Thanks, Scarlet. I remembered that with you and L--wasn't she also worried about neighbors seeing it from outside or something like that? I felt for you then.

And I think this is very similar. It does feel like he's not accepting me in a way. And as I was attempting (unsuccessfully!) to get sleep, I also had tthe thought that I had given it to him for the thera-versary, to honor our work together. So now, in a way, it feels like he's dismissing that.

I also realized that at first, he said it was about a lack of physical space in the new office, which I do understand (hence my suggestion of something much smaller). Now, it seems, from what he's saying, to be mainly about his having control over how he decorates that space. It's almost like, "damn, the physical space thing didn't work, need to switch tactics." It feels like it is about me having a spot there, and he doesn't want to say it out loud (granted, that would hurt, but if it's the truth, I guess it's better I know).

Also, it occurs to me that years ago, sometime pre-pandemic, amidst the stone drama, he OK-ed me bringing in a tiny white shell I'd found on the beach to put in the sand tray (the tray is really small, maybe 5' x 8"). I brought the smallest, nondescript one I could because he said it would also need to be something he found aesthetically pleasing. it was so nondescript that I have no clue whether it's still there. He probably forgot about it. But he's seemed OK with my having some tiny presence in the office since then.

My thought if I gave the small fish would be something similar--though I imagine he wouldn't put it in the sand tray, as he seems like the sort who'd say only creatures that walk on land could go in there. But like an item to be amidst other items in a container rather than requiring a space on its own, as current fish does. To blend in more, I guess. I imagine if I mention the shell, he'd get rid of that, too, if it's even still there (sand tray also is on another side of the room--used to be next to me, but he moved it during the pandemic). Or he'd be like, "see, you're already in the office," but at the time, it was also meant to be in exchange for a new stone.

I don't know...

This also reminds me of my own issue of trying to be small. For me, if I'm small enough, maybe then they'd accept me. I personally do this ALL the time.

Your smaller fish reminded me of that. Does it feel like If it's just small enough, maybe then he'll let it/me stay? I know you're trying so hard to work things out. AND I wish/hope there are times where you can know that you are enough exactly the way you are.

I think I get the wanting to have some part of you there. I don’t really feel that myself, with any place, but I feel that way about wanting to have some part of my mother with me always. (It’s the second anniversary of her death today.)



And reading your posts, I don’t know it’s so much that you want something of you in that space as that you want Dr T to want something of you in that space. For you to matter to him like my mother mattered to me.

It seems like the issue with the fish has brought up deeper feelings of insecurity and doubt in your relationship with Dr. T. To me it’s just about wanting to be a part of his space and to be thought of even if you weren’t there.

Your efforts to assert yourself and express your needs are important steps.

The robotic reassurance may reflect Dr. T's own discomfort with emotional expression or a defensive response to feeling challenged.

Could you explore this with R? It's also important to consider your own boundaries and needs in the therapeutic relationship.

Yes, exactly. I even said something about something the size of a grain of rice. It feels like if he won't even accept something tiny from me, it's about me, not the item.

Oh, and I didn't share this part. He actually said, "Do you think it's appropriate to ask someone to put something of yours in their space?" The use of "appropriate" really bothered me. I said, "Well, if I didn't think it was appropriate, I wouldn't have asked." I eventually asked if he thought it was appropriate, and I'm not sure he answered? Like, he seemed fine with it before and recognized it as a "gift for the office" when I initially gave it to him a year and a half ago (as opposed to something for him to take home).

And thanks for this, Scarlet: "AND I wish/hope there are times where you can know that you are enough exactly the way you are."

Yuck...

That's a horrible question in that context.

A gift from a client to a therapist isn't given with the expectation that it will definitely be put on display...but to insinuate that you're 'pushing it' in some way is really weird.

I wouldn't give something to a friend and immediately ask where they were going to put it...I'd want to enjoy the moment of noticing it around their place.

'There's that thing!' and the joy that comes with seeing it in its rightful place.

I honestly can't fathom how a three inch fish has become a bone of contention, and yet I really don't think it's about you, LT.

I'll keep the rest of my mumblings to myself, but I hope he sees sense here.

Hugs to you, @@.


I think you're exactly right. And part of what I said about the fish in one of the discussions is that I want him to want to take it with him, to find a spot for it. To think, "this matters to LT, so I'll take it, because she matters to me." (I don't think I phrased it quite like that.) But yes, I think even more than that is wishing he would want it there because he likes having me in his office, wants a part of me there that reminds him of me. So that's likely part of why this is so painful.

He wants to decorate his office as he sees fit, and that may not include something that represents me. I don't know that I can bring this up to him, as his response may just make it very clear how little I truly mean to him. It may simply be that he doesn't assign the same value to objects that I (and apparently you, and your mother) do. He may just not be sentimental in that way, so doesn't get the meaning. Or maybe other objects in there have lots of meaning for him (due to their origin), but mine doesn't.

Yes, I think it's bringing up questions of who I am to him (I mean, a client, of course) and the realities of the relationship.

And he does tend to react poorly to being challenged. Right now, I want things like reassurance about the new space, and he seems to be giving me the opposite. It's where my anxious attachment interacts poorly with what I can only assume is his avoidant attachment. The push-pull thing. i push for more support, reassurance, warmth, etc., he pulls further back. (I've brought this dynamic up in the past, and of course he denies pulling back or being more boundaried.)

Unsure on discussing with R more. Dr. T said it would be fine to do one or two sessions with her (so I could theoretically do one more), but more than that, we'd need to have a bigger discussion about it. The one with her Monday helped, I thought, but I still feel in despair with Dr. T and can't really comfort myself--like she was trying to get me to visualize comforting the younger version of myself.

I want to tell Dr. T to talk to me about the move and reassure me like I'm 8 or 12 (or even a teenager, as he works with those in his practice), but I know he doesn't work that way and he'd probably find it silly and say "You're not 8, you're 47." I'm not good at doing it for myself either.

Maybe I need to look for someone else to see for a bit--or longer--I don't know. Like someone who doesn't know him well. Or consider taking a break from therapy and seeing how things go.

The fish itself isn't important, but what it represents is important. Similarly, the decision itself of whether he keeps it or whether you take it back isn't important, but your process around this is important. So I think you are right, objects might not hold the same significance for him as for you (and of course that is fine), but what should be significant to him is your process. He should be able to pay attention to what is happening for you and help you explore what is happening - which might not even involve reassurance. However, hopefully it would involve him remaining congruent whilst also caring about your responses, meanings, experiences, feelings, associations, fears, and all of the goings on in your process. This seems like relational work and maybe that's why he isn't serving you or the work very effectively.

And just to say about the idea of you needing to make yourself small to be acceptable, whilst I can certainly read that in some of what you say (not wanting to repeatedly discuss it, giving a small object etc), I also see how big you are being. You are taking how you feel seriously and you know that this matters. You want to talk about it here, you are driven to speak to him about it, you are having big feelings about it. I think this is part of your agency and good for you for taking up space even at his inconvenience and your discomfort.

Why would you give your T an ultimatum? Do this one thing or else? Don't the past x years mean anything? I don't get it. Has he offered you an ultimatum? If he did, what would it be? YKWIM.

I think it's difficult to identify what is in the territory of an ultimatum and what is confirmation of incompatibility. X years don't always mean much if over that time you have been suppressing your needs or ignoring your gut.

Good point, Comrade.

The therapeutic relationship is hardly the space where one should make oneself smaller to acquiesce to the therapist's process.

This is true. But there’s really only one sure solution: find a therapist you don’t feel you have to be small with.

Actually, beyond natural inclination, it may depend on the person you’re connected to, I think. For instance, I have very few objects that belonged to my father. With him, pictures and memories suffice. It’s not that I loved him less, it’s just somehow I don’t need the object. And maybe Dr T is similar with you, i.e., he doesn’t need the object.

I'm not giving him an ultimatum though? I'm saying how it's painful that he might not take it with him. And might not accept something else. I'm not saying, "Put something of mine in your office or I'll terminate."

This is a good point. Maybe some of this is my suppressing needs for years to appease him and stay on his good side. And it's coming to a head with the fish, so to speak. Like a cresting wave in the ocean, I suppose.

Something that struck me was looking at an old email of his (trying to find what he'd said about a particular thing--unrelated to the fish), where he said the reason he doesn't disclose things like where he goes on vacation and other topics is "I don't want clients to feel they have to take care of me." Like to ask him about his vacation and such.

And I kind of laughed at that, because I *do* very much feel I need to take care of his emotions at times. Like "Don't irritate Dr. T!" (when he's fairly easily irritated). "Don't make him uncomfortable by talking about love feelings!" "Don't say or do anything that will make him feel controlled, even if that's not the intention at all!"

So I feel I sometimes put his needs above my own. Which, of course, is how it is in outside life, like obviously I need to prioritize D's needs, H's needs, etc. at times over mine. Same with friendships. But it doesn't seem like I should have to take care of my therapist's emotions--at least not to this level. I sort of referenced the taking care of his emotions during yesterday's session, but in a side comment way (he said, "I can manage my own emotions").

Anyway...

I mean, I like to think that I can swim the channel or write a great a novel or enjoy a glass of wine without drinking a bottle or relax in other people's company. Doesn't mean that translates into life.

I don't think this is lining up. I completely understand the guy not wanting other people's stuff in his office. I agree with him on that. Even people I love don't get to decorate my house.
If you want to talk about the pain of the loss of the fish -then why not do that rather than focusing on getting the therapist to do an act? It does seem like you try to control him - I don't see it as taking care of his emotions. I do think of it as child like attempts at getting to be one way or the other with you (which would make sense if there is some paternal transference). I don't think, from what I have read, the therapist is supposed to satisfy every want a client has.

To me it seems there is a lot of time/energy spent planning on how to get specific things out of him -Like with the having the appointment even though you were sick because you wanted some emotion from him because you were sick (him being nicer because you were not well thing).