Couch 249: The Self Care Couch

Anyone good at logical math with only simple subtraction and division? I'm trying to calculate mine and H's move out fees vs my dad's move out fees. There's only 3 parts: my dad's junk removal fee, mine and H's deposit, and H and I owe 2/3. What order does it go in? Right now I took the junk fee off the total, then 2/3, then minus our deposit. But I'm wondering if it goes: 2/3 and then both junk and deposit off? Can anyone help? It needs to be correct because my dad will know.

I'm sorry, LT! Maybe you do just need a break? Anger is healthy especially if expressed appropriately. It sounds like Dr. T was defensive.

Thanks, Lemon. I think I may do that, possibly keep my next Friday session, but it would still give me a week. And, well, I could decide about that session with 24 hours notice. I can do that with any of them, but I'd rather just say "I need a week--please take me off for Monday and Wednesday" than keep deciding 24 hours in advance.

I'll sleep on it. I don't want to cancel sessions then attempt to reschedule and have nothing be available (especially as one time, he said he was tempted to not reschedule me for spite, but he realized that would be immature).

It also bothered me that at first, he questioned my saying I might be in a major depressive episode. I said I was picking up Zoloft (SSRI) later today, and he was like, "That's for longer-term use, not an acute episode." And I was like, "I think this has been going on for some time." I wanted to be like, "Yes, I'm familiar with Zoloft, moron--I was on it for a few years while I was seeing you in the past."

He did seem more compassionate when I was describing symptoms unrelated to him/the move in the last few months. (Like more trouble sleeping than usual, not feeling enthusiastic about things I generally like to do, lack of motivation and energy, etc.)I said that maybe the stuff with the move was a symptom, not the cause. He seemed to agree about the idea of depression in the end. But should I have to try to convince my therapist that I'm depressed?

Thanks, Scarlet. I was hoping he'd be compassionate, rather than defensive. He had moments of compassion (and seemed to be wiping tears a few times), but the defensiveness won out.

I think it was also difficult seeing the new office in the background--he set it up differently than he said he would, like the loveseat isn't facing the window like the couch was. So maybe I'll opt to sit in a chair? He said wherever I sat, we'd be the same distance away. (No idea whether the fish is there--it wasn't in my field of vision, but his chair was blocking some shelves.)

I do feel I don't want to end it without at least seeing him in person one more time. It could make it easier, but I feel I'd regret ending that way. I mean, I could make it a planned termination session, or I could see how I feel.

Of course, my feelings are subject to change. But the other time that I left, he seemed to shift quite a bit toward me once I came back (was less than 2 weeks, I think). Like, maybe he needs time apart, too? For everything to settle more? I don't know.

I wish I could talk to R, but obviously, that's not an option at the moment... He was bothered that I "went behind his back" to schedule with her. To which I said, "I didn't want to bother you during the move! And I was just trying to get support for myself."

I'm not sure there's a set "correct" here. It could be calculated different ways. Could you present the amount to your dad and say you calculated it as best you could and hope it's right?

Though my initial thought would be junk fee, deposit, and then the 2/3?

Scarlet - i cannot determine from your description what exactly you are trying to calculate.

2/3 of what and why?

Is dad's junk removal amount given? Are you trying to compare that to 1/3 of the deposit you dad will not get back?

I'm trying to calculate how much H and I owe for move out fees vs my dad. We owe 2/3 of the fees and my dad owes 1/3. Yes, my dad's junk fees is $400 and mine and H's deposit is $500. I know it's confusing. I'm confused! But I need to do it.

I can't ask my dad. We are permanently not speaking to each other.

dad's junk fees: $400
Your and H's deposit: $500

Total fees = $400 + $500 = $900.

Your and H's share = (2/3) * $900 = $600
Your dad's share = (1/3) * $900 = $300

As dad's junk fees are already $400, he has overpaid by $100 ($400 - $300).

Your dad should be reimbursed $100.

Double check with Math magician Una.

It is August.

Which means classes start soon.

Which means I am in a constant low-level panic worrying about dealing with bad attitudes toward disability at work..

Which led to a nightmare that I asked for captioning accommodati9ns and didn’t get them.

Which of course is not a nightmare, but my life.

I really do need to check and see when classes start. I know what days I teach but I probably should find out which week we start

Ugh, I'm so sorry that you're still dealing with these issues at your university. It's really...I was going to say unfair, but really it's illegal, discriminatory, and utterly disrespectful.

I'm in an angry mood right now: sic me on those not giving you accommodations.

When I was in grad school 10 years ago, I mistakenly thought classes started on a certain day. Drove the 45 minutes to campus, marveled at how empty the garage was, then thought to check my calendar.... I think it was a case where classes started on the Wednesday, and I had a Tuesday class, something like that. Sheepishly got back in my car and drove home.

So probably good to find out.

Once as a professor and once as a student I walked to campus through big storms—which both turned out to be the eye of a hurricane—on the assumption it was just a storm and we had classes. Nope.

Im still not sure what is incoming and what is outgoing.

Are you saying your dad still has to pay 1/3 of the 500 moveout fee, even though he is already out?

What does the junk removal fee have to do with the moveout fee? Arent they different companies?

Is the moveout fee to a moving company, or the apartment complex, like holding a security deposit? Did your dad pay any of it when he moved in and now expects 1/3 back? Your use of the word deposit is confusing me.

Ugh the weather map is dark orange -hot hot hot.

i’m sorry things didn’t go well, LT. i really hope you find the strength to take a step back and really examine things for what they are, not what you hope they could be. i realize you pay Dr. T, but that doesn’t mean he has no say in the way he does therapy. it’s not looking like he will ever be the t you so desperately want him to be. 😞

LT - idk, im with stopdog here, this sounds like a rerun of calling MC on a football sunday. Esp if he had to say, dont yell at me. And with you saying, OTHER people would do this for me, even if THEIR back was up against a wall.

2 thoughts. 1, you DO have other people: your H, R, parents, inlaws, us. Who is HE? He is nobody. He is the guy who shovels your snow, or whatever. Why does he mean so much to you?

2. Why are you forcing a confrontation? If you want to get out, just get out. You do not have to declare him incompetent or unsatisfactory. Its not about him, its about you. He was never there to fulfill your needs, so he cannot fail at that.

How would it feel to leave without getting mad and
telling him what a loser he is? What would you think about yourself?

Thanks, Darkest. I'm feeling that way, too. Experiencing more anger than sadness at the moment, and trying to hold onto that.

Again, just like ex-MC, Dr. T called *me*. I was trying to avoid bothering him. He even said something today about "needing" to call me, and I said I wasn't looking for a call. I had just sent him an email saying, literally, nothing but "OK to meet with R tomorrow?" And it was only because R wanted me to confirm with him. I just assumed he'd reply "that's fine," which would have taken 30 seconds, not 15 minutes. And we could have talked about it later, in session, when he wasn't busy. (Same with ex-MC.)

I feel better standing up for myself. I'm proud of myself for not just caving and apologizing to him today. I think that's progress for me. I could have just people-pleased, but chose not to do so. I also was trying to talk it through. I could have just been like "K, bye forever" as soon as he said something that bothered me. But I felt the mature thing to do was talk it through.

Also, if I terminate, I'm quite sure I'd no longer have R as he'd likely forbid her to see me. So it's losing two therapists at once.

I have attachment to him--it's not so easy. I can't explain why I'm attached to him in particular and don't think I need to. It just is. I need to figure out what's best for me.

And my in-laws don't really give me any emotional support. Neither do my parents or other family members. H does at times. My friends do. And you all. My D would probably prefer that I not exist at all. Or at least not live in our house (which has been the case for the last 5 years).

I don't want to turn this into a debate. This is just how I feel. My relationship with him is complicated, and he has given me a lot of support on various things in the past. I need time to think about what to do. And not storm away from a 6-year relationship without giving it though and maybe trying for a bit to work it through.


I do think stepping away for a week could be good for both of us.

For me the question remains, is the junk fee on top of the $500 deposit. I am assuming you will not get the deposit back but not sure why you have to pay 2/3 of something. If the $400 junk fee is for your father's junk, he should be paying that off the top. Then if there is anything else owed it should be split 3 ways.

The move out fees is how much we owe the apartment complex for cleaning, paint, carpet, and junk removal. The deposit is the security deposit that only applies to H and I because my dad didn't contribute. H and I owe 2/3 because we're 2 out of 3 people. My dad is responsible for his 1/3.

So move out fees is $2100. Security deposit is $500. And his junk fee is $400. Again, H and I get the security deposit taken off our debt. And dad has to pay for his own junk removal.

So the question is do I remove the security deposit and junk removal fee from our debt and then times 2/3? Or is it reverse?

Sorry this is so confusing!!!

LT—through most of your relationship with Dr T I kept getting the sense of that old Friends argument between Ross and Rachel—“We were on a break!” Like the two of you spoke the same language but it meant different things to each of you.

Generally I think anger can be productive in making a change. Not sure I ever saw you swear on here before the Dear T post yesterday or the day before.

Feelings are not facts

Is the junk removal fee part of the 2100 moveout fee or not?

If it is, then dad owes 300, plus the junk removal 400 (if not already paid, total 700.

You and and h owe 1400 - 500 = 900.

If dads junk removal is in addition to the 2100 moveout, then dad owes 700 plus the 400 junk removal, total 1100.

So it all depends on when dads junk removal was billed, earlier, or as part of the move out

Yes, the junk removal is part of the move out fees.

Thank you Una!

That's a good way of putting it, the Ross and Rachel analogy! The love stuff also showed how we seem to understand the same terms differently. And some other things.

I do think the anger can potentially help--blaming myself and apologizing for everything may appease him, but it doesn't really move the relationship anywhere. (Though I imagine it makes him happy.)

I just wonder whether he can tolerate my anger and being challenged--and I suppose, conversely, whether I can tolerate his toward me. Or "aggravation," as he called it when I asked if he was angry at me for reaching out during the move. Though he seemed truly angry at a couple points during our conversation (like when he said I yelled at him).

I think of what ex-T said once about relationships, though at the time, it was about me and H: How sometimes you need to turn up the heat in a relationship to move it forward--not like in a sexual way, but to express the anger, have a fight, etc. Maybe that's true here? And if it can't survive that, then I imagine it wasn't as strong as it seemed in the first place.

It's a rare day: I'm not only cursing, but also quoting a helpful thing ex-T said.