"I am drawn to your breasts." I told T.

omg I finally told her. "I am drawn to your breasts."

I journalled this past week about an intense experience I had. I really wanted to tell T so I took my journal to bolster my courage. Reaching for my journal as I was getting out of my car, I hesitated , not sure I could do it. I decided to take the risk of at least taking the journal into the room.. from there I wasn't sure I could say what I wanted to say. Luckily she looked at the journal and asked had I written something? and so we began...

It was a regressive experience like I have sometimes. I used to immediately grab the phone and call her, often leaving a sobbing frantic message. Early in therapy the message was simply an overwhelmed and hysterical "Where are you?! I need you!!" because I felt totally alone and incapable of taking care of myself. The intensity of the aloneness felt like too much to be able to survive and I didn't know what to do.

The experience I wanted to tell T about happened the day after the last session and included feeling like a 6-year-old, thinking of how lovely T looked in her lovely dress that day and, as I have been many times in the last year+ since I've been seeing her, I was drawn to her breasts. It isn't sexual, it's just that it looks like a wonderfully safe, soft, warm place for my cheek to rest if she hugged me. Comforting and soothing. (getting dreamy-eyed just typing this. lol)

While thinking about how lovely T looked in her dress, I was suddenly overwhelmed with loving feelings for her and I said out loud in my silent little apartment, "The little girl in me loves you, you know!". So overwhelmed, I had to pace like I do when I'm overloaded and anxious. I imagined the little girl me standing in T's therapy room, telling her that she loves her, but the little girl me is crying and hysterical at the same time. It's dangerous to say those words to her. But wanting to say it and needing to say it is like pain that needs comfort. In the fantasy, T is not replying, just observing, listening.

The pain... was the realization that T can't love the little girl me, can't love her back. That I have this love in me but no place for it to go.

The frustration of wanting, needing, but knowing it won't be coming. It feels so heavy. A drowsy heavy that I want to escape, drift away from. It seems like it was easier to deny I wanted and needed than it is to realize I wanted and needed to receive love and to give love. There are still times I sit in that room and swear to T that I didn't want that from my mother; that I wanted it, but not from her. I have to separate those ideas, feelings.

T accepted my telling her about being drawn to her breasts, admired my courage to be able to say it, to risk bringing that to therapy with me and noted that I presented it in an adult way. Whew!!!!! I was so afraid she was going to be appalled and disgusted, but she's the one who said tell her 'anything that comes to mind'. Holding back started to feel as uncomfortable as I imagined it would be to tell her. It was so hard to look at her and say that out loud!

Favorite comment this session: She was talking and something was going through my mind. She stopped talking and I had to tell her "I didn't hear anything you just said." Oops! She told me that if something comes up, comes to mind while she's talking, to go ahead and say it because it will always be more important than what she's saying.


Playing with T's toys: I noticed colored feathers on her desk. The little girl she sees had the session before mine and she made a picture by gluing the colored feathers onto paper. One thing led to another and T asked if I wanted to do the Sand Tray!! I don't know that I'm quite relaxed enough to do it now, but maybe sometime in the future. I'm dying to but right now, I'd be way too self-conscious!

(a sand tray??? blehhh at the T's over here )

Wow, Echoes,

Our two threads are polar opposites!

You are so brave, congratulations! This sounds like a huge step. I remember the first time I brought journal musings into therapy, I was crossing a huge divide between us. This is a big step. YAY

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The pain... was the realization that T can't love the little girl me, can't love her back. That I have this love in me but no place for it to go.

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Well, can't T admire the little girl you? I think she did when you read your journal.

And can the love go back to yourself? Can you love the little girl and can she love you back? I am working on self love and acceptance.

My favorite part of your post:

The sand tray! oooooh it sounds like so much fun--go ahead, take the risk and play with it, then let us know how much fun it is.....

Nice work Echoes. Bravo!

Thanks fuzzy and MissCharlotte.

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Well, can't T admire the little girl you? I think she did when you read your journal.


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No, I don't feel that. I referred to my journal, but didn't read from it. I didn't want to leave anything out and it was a handy place to turn my gaze when the embarassing stuff was being said. It was very adult. How come 'adult' feels like 'reporting' and void of emotion. She made it into Why the little girl me doesn't feel like she can be loved, so it was all about me and nothing about T.

I feel confused in therapy. I do my reporting there and my feeling away from there--in the car after session, at home, sometimes at work. In session, I am (her word) often stoic, especially compared to how emotional I can be in my phone calls. When asked what I'm 'feeling right now' in session I can't say and the question itself unnerves me like a dissociation of it's own. I can never answer it and I feel like stupid and like a failure.

idk. just not feeling so hot about the whole thing today.

((((((((( echoes ))))))))))

I very much understand the feeling of being drawn to T's breasts. It seems like a very safe comforting place to be - just wanting to lay my head there and be held close. To me, it's "motherly", something I never got from my own mother.

When one of my littles was very triggered in her office, she came and held them, and brought their head close to her chest/shoulder (not actually her breasts) and we could hear her heart beat. It was one of the safest I've ever felt.

I'm so proud that you were able to tell her about being drawn to her in this way.

Echoes, I am so proud of you and the work you have been doing in therapy lately.

I can understand where you are coming from, to a point. My T does not have breasts. lol. I don't know how he would react if I said, "I am drawn to your....." Nevermind, lol.

I had this professor for my culture and gender class. She wasn't overweight, but she was just so.... comfy looking. Sometimes I would imagine hugging her and resting my head against her chest. Like it would be so safe and comfortable.

As I read pinksoil's response I thought of the term "bosom." It has been used since time immemorial to describe the place that is close to the heart, a loving warm comfortable, safe environment. It must have evolved from the mother holding an infant to her breast to nurse.

I found a few interesting quotes:

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Abraham's bosom (Luke 16:22-23) refers to the custom of reclining on couches at the dining table, which was prevalent among the Jews, an arrangement which brought the head of one person almost into the bosom of the one who sat or reclined above him.
To "be in Abraham's bosom" thus meant to enjoy happiness and rest (Matthew 8:11; Luke 16:23) at the banquet in Paradise.

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Maybe you can ask her if she would like a coffee with you on the couch and her "above" you?

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“Go to your bosom: Knock there, and ask your heart what it doth know”
Shakespeare

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> Sigh

And a few about covering up bosoms:

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Cover that bosom. I must not see it. Souls are wounded by such things, and they arouse wicked thoughts.” Moliere (french actor, writer)

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You can't show your bosom 'fore three o'clock. ..Mammie to Scarlett O'Hara in "Gone with the Wind"

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(And this last one brings us back full circle to the other ongoing conversation about showing cleavage. It's been a dilemma for women over the ages.)

My therapist is male, and I've long talked of his milky breasts.

I think it might have bothered him a bit at first, but now he refers to it himself, or has at least once anyway.

In a nurturing environment, I think it can be a very natural thought, even if one's therapist does not literally have female breasts.

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I don't know how he would react if I said, "I am drawn to your....."

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(Pinksoil... I think maybe he knows...LOL)

"comfy looking" is a good description of my T. Actually, everything about her is very comfy.

awww Fuzzy, I would love to share my T with you.

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ECHOES said:
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I don't know how he would react if I said, "I am drawn to your....."

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(Pinksoil... I think maybe he knows...LOL)

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Perhaps you are right?

MissCharlotte, did you Google "bosom"?! lol

That term cracks me up. I have a very good friend who is also a reader and also detests romance novels. She calls them "creamy bosoms" because, she says, somewhere in the book is that ridiculous romantic description.

Yeah we talked about an infant's experience with the breast as a source of comfort including feeding.

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Maybe you can ask her if she would like a coffee with you on the couch and her "above" you?

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hehe, a very non-biblical me likes this quote. As it happens, even though she is only slightly taller than me, the couch sits low and her chair sits high... so she does sit "above" me and I like that. I could sit in one of the chairs and then I would sit up higher... but I don't wanna.

About covering them up... oh, I hope my comment to her doesn't make her do that. But, luckily for me MissCharlotte, my appointments never 'fore three o'clock!

stormyangels, yes--you describe it perfectly!

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When one of my littles was very triggered in her office, she came and held them, and brought their head close to her chest/shoulder (not actually her breasts) and we could hear her heart beat. It was one of the safest I've ever felt.

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Oh that sounds so safe and secure

Dinah, I think you are much braver than me!
Wow that is so good you could say that to your male T and that he would understand the significance of it and be able to embrace it himself.

Echos - you are so brave to bring this up in T. I think I can imagine how you feel. One of the things I miss about my ex- H is being able to be held in his arms with my head against his chest. It always felt like that space between his shoulder and neck was just made for my head to rest in. Very comforting and (usually!) not sexual at all.

Just bringing this thread back for a minute


Echoes, for some reason I identify with this almost word for word.

Would you mind explaining what you meant by this a little more in depth? Because I know it means something to me... but I can't quite figure it out.

Thanks

yes thats how it is for me to.

ECHOES: I could have written the exact paragraph below!! Maybe that's why I needed to call my T right after therapy, and still leave long messages now. I used to be stoic in sessions and cry the very minute I got out of her house. I did a lot of reporting in therapy too, and never knew what I was feeling. If I did know, I reported my feelings, hardly ever feeling them right there in the session.

You were so brave to tell your T what you did about breasts. I would have died in embarrassment.

lily99, I mean that for the longest time I disconnected my longing for mothering with my longing for mother from my mother. I didn't see her as capable of it or having a desire to be that way, so I didn't put her in that fantasy of being mothered. "You WILL NOT make me love my mother!!" I hissed at T through the phone one post-session several years ago.
I still don't like holding those thoughts, mothering and my mother, too close together. Maybe she will contaminate my fantasy and then I will be left with nothing...I don't know.

As a kid, I protectively decided that I didn't need (deserve) mothering...from her. I wanted it from about everyone else from teachers to friend's mothers, though. It is still a confusing mess. I was repulsed by her and she openly ridiculed emotions and children who were attached to their mothers, critical of both the child and the mother. To think about wanting to be loved, then having her come to mind, makes the whole idea a confusing mess.

My own inability to be loving is affected also.

It is still hard to explain.

rainbow8: Thanks! Telling T was really embarassing! I was only able to because I know that 'anything and everything' is important in therapy. Still...yikes lol

I have been at a similar place in my very last session but not dealt with it all in as direct or honest a manner. Just touched on the topic lightly. Maybe more later. You are very brave.

((((((((((((((( Echoes ))))))))))))))))

lily, thanks for reviving this thread - I wasn't a member yet when it was started. And ECHOES, thanks for starting it and sharing!

I only recently realized that I also decided this as a child, and that I looked for other 'mothers', the latest of course being my T. I don't think I fully realized that I was doing this until T called me out on it after I read her a letter from my inner child in last session - I had admitted that when I was young, I'd sometimes wish that my mother would die and my father would remarry so I'd get a new mommy. I feel extremely guilty about that, but it is what it is. T wondered if I see her as my new mommy. I didn't really respond, but my inner child wrote her another letter about it yesterday, saying of course I want her to be my new mommy but I know she can't be. And that realization hurts.

T is rather flat-chested, LOL, but she has very long legs - I find myself drawn to her lap. The little girl inside me wants to climb up onto T's lap, wrap her arms around T's neck, and snuggle into T's neck and shoulder, maybe cry some, while T hugs her and rubs her back and whispers soothing words in her ear.

I did get up the courage to tell T that I fantasized that some day, I'd completely let loose and bawl in a session, and T would come sit next to me on the couch and hold me. T asked if I wanted that to happen in reality, I told her I wasn't ready for that, even though I've really wanted nothing more than for someone to hold me and comfort me like that for as long as I can remember. Why couldn't I tell T that?

But what an intelligent, creative way for a child to problem-solve. You were taking care of and protecting your needs back then.

I used to fret about my parents splitting up. It seemed inevitable, what with all the fighting and harsh words even when they weren't. I didn't think I stood a chance of living with my father, even though that's what I would have wanted. Which meant I would probably not see my grandmother either, the Good One and it seemed to me to be the only normal person in my life. She wasn't motherly either, not affectionate, but she did give me her time and I felt like she really 'saw' me and "heard" me (lol--metaphorically speaking...we are actually both hard of hearing...she barely heard anything at all, I was a bit better able to hear.)

I think those fantasies, even though they are welcomed in therapy, we hold dear. Something about speaking them out loud can take away some of the magic. That might be a desired result, but when the fantasy itself is soothing and comforting, it is hard to voice at the risk of losing. I haven't voiced all of my fantasies about being soothed and comforted by her. In therapy, I now have learned to recognize when I am being soothed and comforted by words--not soothing, comforting words, but by being able to put experiences and fears and wishes into words, having them heard, accepted, responded to.

Yeah, I do this. I'd idealize particular teachers who would say "I'm here if you need to talk", but of course they'd soon realize how needy I was and how I believed they could "rescue" me, and then they'd back off. It just continued my belief that I didn't deserve that kind of love. And then I'd feel guilty for not wanting/believing my own mother would give me that.

I guess that's why I'm so so so attached to T. I intellectually know she's not going anywhere, but it's hard to stifle those feelings that tell you to get out before they can hurt you.

Thanks for replying