[purplebutterfly]

Anyone ever tried this type of therapy?

Yup, T and I are doing this presently... What questions do you have?

[purplebutterfly]

Pink,
Thanks for responding. I am really nervous about this. What does the therapy involve? All he told me was that it was based on emotions, is this correct?
I would appreciate any information you have on this therapy.
(((((Pink)))))))

[(JD)]

EMDR Psych Central resource

Just to add to that article (and also the name of the therapy), EMDR is not limited to eye movements. It started out as a patient's eyes following the therapist's finger moving back and forth. It was found that other types of movements can stimulate bilateral processing in the brain... this can include eye movements to follow the therapist's finger, following a light that moves back and forth, holding small instruments in the hands that alternately buzz, and also tapping on the shoudlers or knees with arms crossed-- the therapist OR the patient can do the tapping. The selection of the physical movement usually depends on comfort, connection, and level of trust. I started out using the buzz things or even the light with my T-- but because of my need for a strong face to face connection, we stopped using those. Sometimes I follow his finger with my eye movements, and sometimes he does continuous, alternative tapping on my knees while I am experiencing the memory.

[purplebutterfly]

Thanks(((((Sky)))) & ((((((Pink)))) for your help on this. I am not too sure about this therapy, I have a hard time with therapy to begin with.

[sunrise]

purplebutterfly, I have done EMDR as trauma therapy and found it very helpful. As pinksoil said, there are ways to do EMDR without the eye movements. I think I would find the eve movements very hard to do while trying to focus on the traumatic incident. I use these two little buzzing thingies that my T told me I could put either under my thighs or under my feet. I use them under my feet as this gives good contact (I always wear clogs to therapy just in case we do EMDR). I find the alternating pulses extremely soothing. I have actually wanted to use them in therapy even when we are not doing EMDR. After my EMDR sessions I would feel very exhausted. There is a whole protocol that goes along with the EMDR and it can be kind of lengthy (at least the way my T does it), so when we do EMDR we have a longer session (~90 minutes). You can always try it and if it doesn't work, nothing lost. If you are apprehensive, you might want to start with something small, rather than the most traumatic incident in your life. My T says he sometimes has clients make a list of the top 20 traumatic incidents in their lives and then they go through them with EMDR, one incident at at time. (I haven't done it that way myself.)

[(JD)]

Purple, it's really very nonintrusive, and a form of hypnosis. But it's suggestibility that you embrace consciously.
EMDR is eye movement and usually the T waves his hand or a few fingers in front of your eyes to gain a type of hypnosis.

The EFT (emotional freedom tapping) is similar. The tapping can be as simple as the T tapping on his desk while sharing a good response for you in a certain situation...such as when you are anxious, and he says while tapping that you will be able to calm yourself by breathing properly and thinking calming thoughts. Then, when you are anxious, you can tap your hand or table or car seat or whatever and the good suggestions the T made will become real to you and you will find yourself calming yourself.

That's a basic example. It's nothing to fear. You probably will feel a bit silly or anxious about beginning it and tell the T so, even if you giggle or cry with anxiety... let the T know. This can be a good thing for you!

[MINIME]

I love/hate emdr. Its really hard at first, for me when we start a memory but after a while i feel so much better, I get more dreams and sometimes flashbacks at the start of a new memory process. But it all helps down the road. I have 2 hour sessions with my emdr therapist and also a 1 hour appt with my reg therapist. My emdr therapists is really acceciable and i would have te recommend that at least in the begininng of processing a memory you shoud ask that your therapist to call u back when u call as soon as possiable. My emdr therapist is so gentle and mellow and her voice seems to be a part of my brain now and it helps alot. You have to really trust the emdr therapist because at least for me its hard and scary at first.Its really helped me.

[(JD)]

Yes, if it is used strictly for memory work, it can be tough. I personally wouldn't use it for that unless it's one last, tough memory or such, because I believe that memories need to be realized slowly and methodically, according to the patient's own pace. EMDR tends to override that, and that's why it does need to be done by professionally trained therapists.

[DoggyBonz]

Hi Purple,
I have a really hard time in therapy and this was suggested to me. What I really liked about it was that it had some form of structure and action. As far as eye movements that was easier for me than closing my eyes and hearing beeps in each ear. I liked having my eyes open which gave me a stronger sense of being in "control".

Also what has really been important for me is that when you are processing the therapist might ask you to picture the situation or something related. She kept telling me to keep it on the screen like I was watching a movie. That has helped big time and allowed me to not get overwhelmed and take it home with me.

I was also afraid that EMDR might bring up too much emotion and we talked about it. What has also helped in the bilateral stimulation is creating a safe place to go to mentally when I get afraid. The therapist starts every session this way with my hands crossed on my legs and I tap each leg and go to my safe place. It's all part of the therapy and has helped b/c the movements provide a way for your brain to process.

I can't stress the importance of talking to your therapist and sharing your feelings about it. Also, when I started all the literature said about 10-12 visits and I stayed much longer.

Keep us informed

[Lemon]

I'm taking baby steps towards doing EMDR. I hold the alternating pulsing things in my hands and have told T about a safe place. I'm not ready to relax enough to discuss a tramatic event this way.

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sunrise said:
I find the alternating pulses extremely soothing. I have actually wanted to use them in therapy even when we are not doing EMDR.

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Sunny, you should tell T you want to do this. My T told me some of her clients do this. They like the feeling so much they ask for the pulsing things just told hold while they have their therapy session. Sounds soothing to me too.

[Merlin]

I tried to do it once and started dissociating. My T grounded me with her voice and we never did do it again, but that's fine because I don't do much memory work.

[chaotic13]

My T introduced it to me once... I don't think I fully cooperated and I with my personal space issues, our experiment with it was somewhat limited. I ended up not being guided through the memory and later experienced a lot of flashbacks after the session was over. This was not pleasant. I asked my T about it in an email after last session, I'm not sure if it is something we are going to do again.

[happysappy]

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_Sky said:
Purple, it's really very nonintrusive, and a form of hypnosis. But it's suggestibility that you embrace consciously.
EMDR is eye movement and usually the T waves his hand or a few fingers in front of your eyes to gain a type of hypnosis.


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Sky, I just have to chime in, EMDR is NOT a form of hypnosis, and their is an empirical huge study that should be coming out very soon that debunks the "suggestibility" factor. EMDR.com is a great source, plus there are some great books I could suggest for you. EMDR is very highly recommended by the VA for treatment of PTSD.
Plus pro athletes, musicians, creative people can also use EMDR to enhance their performance and to settle their nerves of performing.

I have experience with using it for trauma therapy and for performance anxiety. My T is also going to use it for ego strengthening .

Most EMDR is where the T, is in full control, so he can change the speed or durations of the bilateral movement, usually by 2 fingers going across the field of vision, or sometimes taps on the clients knees. It is a form of desensitization therapy where the client thinks of the troubling memory, while usually watching the fingers of the T go back and forth. The bilateral movement "unfreezes" the trauma memory, and allows your brain to reprocess it as something that that doesn't have such a strong hold on you.

It is becoming more popular every year, as more T's become trained in it. My T has been doing it for over 10 years and have had very wonderful successes from some of the most severe PTSD cases that have held clients hostage to their flashbacks for years, and now they are recovered.
It is a wonderful tool, but like all things, it doesn't work for everyone, but it does have a high success rate so it is worth the try.

[Rick61701]

Happysappy,

I'm curious,

What is your description of hypnosis?

[MINIME]

I didnt mean that i use it to recover memories, I use it for certian truamatic memories that I have. And it is not a form of hypnosis at all. It does bilateral stimulation right brain left brain stuff. I would never do hypnosis. It has nothing to do with hypnosis. You can target certain memories that are highly triggering and you fill out a paper with your T and it asks about postive beliefs negagative beleifs. She asks you what picture comes to mind when u think of this memory. Like what negative beleif does this memory hold for you about yourself, and if you have trouble with the answer there are lists with examples, then she asks on a scale from 1-7 how disytressing is this memory,,where do you feel it in your body. Then she asks what would you like to beleive about yourself and how true do those words feel....then you hold on to the picture of the memory in your brain while you think of the negative beleif and do the bilalteral stuff and then she asks what did u get? Then you tell her whatever has entered your mind...then she asks are you willing to go with it and then you think about what you just thought of and do it over and over. I have never actually finished one yet, but we are getting close. My advice to you is ask your T about this. Dont listen to other people becasue it gets scary and people will give you misinformation. EMDR is client centered and you have control over it. You can stop at any time and my T is really good about keeping me grounded and safe. Reading about it online was scary for me before i did it. I Like hoe emdr has helped me.

[happysappy]

Well I don't have an official definition of hypnosis, but I know what EMDR is, and it is not hypnosis. In fact it is an old myth started by people who really didn't do their research a long time ago.

During EMDR, you are not in a relaxed state, you are thinking of the traumatic
memory, you are feeling it, smelling it, reliving it, and it is nothing is relaxing about it because it is like re experiencing it again, but only with the safety of the T with you.
But this only last for a minute or two because the memories become desensitized rather quickly. You are in complete control (except for the following the fingers of the T). Usually the T will follow with a positive message for you to believe and do the EMDR much slower to end the session.

[Dinah]

It didn't do a thing for me. The therapist suggested I give it up.

It seems to work for many though.

[sunrise]

http://www.emdr.com/q&a.htm
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Is EMDR the same as hypnosis..what are the differences/similarities?

The American Journal of Hypnosis published a special issue on the use of EMDR and hypnosis. An introductory article by the editor and past president of the American Association of Clinical Hypnosis directly addressed the issue: "While it has been argued against categorizing hypnosis as a specific type of treatment method (e.g., Fischolz, 1995; 1997a; 1997b; 2000; Fischholz & Spiegel, 1983), this is not the case for EMDR. Like psychoanalysis, EMDR is both an evolving theory about how information is perceived, stored and retrieved in the human brain and a specific treatment method based on this theory (Shapiro, 1995, 2001). In fact, EMDR is a very unique treatment method, which like other types of treatment/methods/techniques (e.g. psychoanalytic/psychodynamic therapy, behavior, cognitive-behavioral therapy, ego-state therapy) can also be incorportated with hypnosis (Hammond, 1990).

We note there are some distinctive differences between hypnosis and EMDR, which we would like to briefly highlight. First, one of the major uses of hypnosis among clinical practitioners is to deliberately begin by inducing in the patient an altered state of mental relaxation. In contrast, when beginning EMDR mental relaxation is not typically attempted. In fact, deliberate attempts are often actually made to connect with an anxious (i.e. an emotionally disturbing as opposed to relaxed) mental state.

Second, therapists often use hypnosis to help a patient develop a single, highly focused state of aroused receptivity (Spiegel & Spiegel, 1978). In contrast, with EMDR attempts are made to maintain a duality of focus on both positive and negative currently held self-referencing beliefs, as well as the emotional arousal brought about by imaging the worst part of a disturbing memory. However, in this sense, EMDR does have a similarity to Spiegel's (Spiegel & Spiegel, 1978) split-screen cognitive restructuring technique.

Third, one of the proposed effects of hypnotizing a person is that they will have a decrease in their generalized reality orientation (GRO: Shor, 1979). This induced decrease in a person's GRO is often utilized in order to promote an increase in fantasy and imagination, perhaps by capitalizing on an increase in trance logic (Orne, 1977). In contrast, in EMDR attempts are made towards repeatedly grounding the patient by referencing current feelings and body sensations to prevent the patient from drifting away from reality. Specific encouragement/inducement is made towards rejecting previously irrational/self-blaming beliefs in favor of a newly, reframed positive belief with an increase in subjective conviction about that belief. Shapiro and Forrest (1997) and Nicosia (1995) have also noted additional differences between hypnosis and EMDR.

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_Sky wrote:
it's suggestibility that you embrace consciously

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">There has been no suggestibility involved in my EMDR treatments.

[sunrise]

Purplebutterfly, this is my favorite book on EMDR. It's very accessible.
Emotional Healing at Warp Speed: the Power of EMDR, by David Grand.

[happysappy]

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sunrise said:
Purplebutterfly, this is my favorite book on EMDR. It's very accessible.
Emotional Healing at Warp Speed: the Power of EMDR, by David Grand.

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This is a great book and may I also suggest this one,

Transforming Trauma: EMDR: The Revolutionary New Therapy for Freeing the Mind, Clearing the Body, and Opening the Heart (Paperback)
by Laurel Parnell (Author)

I have found both of these at my library, and both are excellent. If I remember correctly both are written by T's who had the treatment themselves and both had very positive results, and they went on to use with their clients.

[Gene53]

I'd sure like to give it a try, even though another forum's admin (Ph.D. Psychology) claims that it's only hype.

Cheers,
Gene

[happysappy]

What is interesting is that all the T's that I know, thought it was only hype too, or hocus pocus, until they saw the results right before them or even their own personal experiences during the training.

One of my T professors thought it was all hype until one of his colleagues convinced him to let him help one of my prof. worst cases, who was in therapy for 2 years, with PTSD from a gang rape, she wasn't getting better with traditional desensitization therapy. So my professor sat in on the EMDR session (the client insisted) and my prof said he saw some healing that took place in a half hour that he has tried for 2 years to accomplish with her. After about 3 more months of EMDR therapy, she terminated therapy, happy, and going better than before her trauma. She still keeps in touch with my prof T, and she has remained okay for over 8 years now. Now my prof. T , who is trauma specialist uses it as much as he can to help people. But at first he thought it was fake.

[Gene53]

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happysappy said:
What is interesting is that all the T's that I know, thought it was only hype too, or hocus pocus, until they saw the results right before them or even their own personal experiences during the training.

One of my T professors thought it was all hype until one of his colleagues convinced him to let him help one of my prof. worst cases, who was in therapy for 2 years, with PTSD from a gang rape, she wasn't getting better with traditional desensitization therapy. So my professor sat in on the EMDR session (the client insisted) and my prof said he saw some healing that took place in a half hour that he has tried for 2 years to accomplish with her. After about 3 more months of EMDR therapy, she terminated therapy, happy, and going better than before her trauma. She still keeps in touch with my prof T, and she has remained okay for over 8 years now. Now my prof. T , who is trauma specialist uses it as much as he can to help people. But at first he thought it was fake.

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Thanks, I now feel confident in trying it out. Is it effective for PTSD only (mind you, I do suffer from this demon) but would it also work to treat GAD, panic disorder and depression?

Thanks again,
Gene