*slaps forehead,,shakes head *

And you must admit - your orginal post was less than diplomatic...especially the subject line. Not exactly a "tell me about" kind of opening.

Yea Flowerb true ,,, but it seems alot is being talked about .

One time I got ticked off at [ one of my * T *s' I still keep in touch with , as Friends ] ....anyway,,, He wouldn't let me leave group when I was catching crap from the others ,,[ hey , I was young ,, 14 years old ]

So I went out the window ,, luckily it was only the second floor >>>>.

i have to defend your viewpoint (maybe i dont need to?) because i felt the same way initially Flowerb (still reserving my opinion on it til the threads purpose is more obvious) cause it seems to me, and ive been off the mark many times, that there was a much kinder way to introduce the topic but i know also that we all do the best we can (i hope) in order to express ourselves without wounding others here....

* scratches head * >>>.. Now why am I thinking about breakfast ?

Eggs , toast , bacon ,,,,, " O " >>>>>..... Waffles !!!

And some tell us " it is the most important meal of the day "

Naw , WMD is under a strict >>>.Must have adult supervision always ,, policy .... LOL.

Agreed - the relationship is immensely complex as the usual rules of social engagement don't apply and the whole thing is a set up for regression. I believe it is even more complex if you sit on both sides of the couch - at least for me - my ego and pride comes into play with all the other stuff. "I should know better" is an internal mantra...

I didn't mean to be a reductionist. And sometimes expressing the anger *is* what helps. I guess I just haven't found the right words yet to explain why this relationship is so important to me, what it does for me and how real it is.

You said it better than I did - that there was a kinder way to introduce the topic. What occurs to me is that I would never criticize someone for not being attached to their therapist and yet it seems like every so often someone swoops in and belittles those that are - and we all nicely try to educate them, etc. For me the issue isn't the topic itself, it is the probable intent of the poster - to demean, to hurt or to just stir things up. And yes, I'm aware that I can't really know someone's intent, I can only go by their choice of words and phrasing.

Usually I would just not engage, knowing that a "fight" is probably what they were looking for. Maybe it was spending the Holidays with my family. My buttons are all pushed past capacity.

(still reserving my opinion on it til the threads purpose is more obvious)

OK run ,, may I go in this direction >> while still remaining on the same path . [ I will walk backwards slowly ]

* replacing the word therapist with friend ,,,,, *

example : ..... My friend was there for me yesterday ,, and today they are unreachable .
Now personally ,,, would I feel rejection ? most probably .
Would many reasons run through my mind as to make an excuse for my friend and there not being available ? most probably .
Would I maybe question if I may or may not have said or done something to cause this detachment that has occurred ? most probably .

Now ,, what if I just let it be and not let it take away my time from more productive thinking .........?

then i thing you would be one of two things;

1 a well adjusted, secure person

an answering machine! (sorry couldnt resist )

2 someone who wont let others close in order that they wont be hurt again ever!

(quote I WMD)
replacing the word therapist with friend (end quote)

ps, and isnt that what people are doing - the therapist is a friend in a way - there is a relationship there - a theraputic relationship - and then isnt it natural to care about someone who is helping you to help yourself? I think T's let us get as close as we need to to heal - for some its a football pitch away - for others its the chair next to them - there is no wrong or right way - there is only the way that we each take to get to our healing place and our T's are hopefully skilled in getting us there -

hmm this is turning into a big p.s., but also wanted to say - that some of us were/are worried that the gentler souls amoungst us may be hurt by this thread - i dont think that was the intention - i hope not - i think it was/is just someone saying how they feel - putting it out there to try to understand the other side - I hope so. We each find our own way P7

I hear that! I hope things are getting a bit better now P7

I have great concern with this statement. Is your relationship with your therapist (who is a service provider) so fragile that it can be "undermined" by something said in an online forum? If so. . .then there are significantly deeper problems than mere transference.

hi WMD,
i think you've brought up an important topic, and one i've certainly wondered about myself. here in australia, it is common practice to limit sessions to once a week at most, so as to encourage independence and the client gathering their own social support network. so i've often been surprised that some clients see their Ts 2-3 times a week, and even call or email in between! i'm not saying this is wrong, but i have questioned how helpful it would be as standard practice.

as for the post of yours i have quoted... i am confused as to why you did post it. is it your way of injecting humour into the situation? because my immediate reaction is that you were being flippant and dismissive. i'm not sure if this was your intention, of course, i'm just putting it out there in case that was not how you intended to come across. i think a lot of the debate in this thread has been sparked by (mis)perceptions of your original intent, so i'm just stating my perceptions in an effort to help you understand why some people may be upset. i'm sorry i haven't been able to word this paragraph in a way that doesn't come across so... paternalistic? it isn't my intent to be all like "deli knows best"... i dont know what i'm trying to say here (the words aren't coming to mind!!) but... if what i said helps, then great, and if not - feel free to ignore!! and tell me so .

as for the "bigger issues" you've raised in this thread.... i sense a certain amount of ambivalence on your behalf? part of you is rational and has these great and helpful thoughts (e.g. not focussing on negative thoughts but turning to more positive ones instead), but another part seems to be... yearning, in a sense, for some of that connection? i could be way off the mark here. maybe i am projecting my own thoughts and feelings onto you. but certainly in my own case - i am torn between wanting to be close to my T, and also being a bit mortified that i have a dependency on him, and so i struggle hard to keep myself independent and separate.

ok, i'm going to stop writing now, because i'm not sure how useful i'm being, but i wanted to give you this --> .

xo deli

P7 ,,, I pulled the whole quote here so I could refer back to it ,,, [ hope ya not mind ] My short term memory has alot to be desired . LOL.

2 someone who wont let others close in order that they wont be hurt again ever!

At one point in time >> that was a truth .
Now I understand patience and what time is in the big picture ... [ being able to see the tree for the forest ].....Or something like that .....[ or the forest for the trees ? ]

(quote I WMD)
replacing the word therapist with friend (end quote)


I have always tried to look at my * T * s' as " another person who puts there pants on >> on leg at a time .
Which would also be true of a friend .



Most importantly is this :hmm this is turning into a big p.s., but also wanted to say - that some of us were/are worried that the gentler souls amoungst us may be hurt by this thread - i dont think that was the intention - i hope not - i think it was/is just someone saying how they feel - putting it out there to try to understand the other side - I hope so. We each find our own way P7[/quote]

.I for real ,, apologize to those here that get tweeked [ as do I when compassionate about something in life ]

Thing sometimes is >> finding a healed place that comes as a long ,, short ,, trial & error ??? What ever the Path >> end result we can all agree on .....

Feeling positive and ,,, Better ,, >>> about ourselfs . .

[quote=Gracey;904808]


Grace ,,,,{{{{{{{{{ gentle hugs }}}}}}}}}}.... You be missed .

WMD.xoxox.

WoW !!!! >>. don't get me wrong as to the flippant part or humor .

It is purposeful ...

as the postings >> by some were heavy >> yes ,, to some >> [ me include ] ? >> I felt the time for lightening up was warranted ..

That is the only reason I went there .

Oh ,, and never think that your opinion may not be useful >> thing is ,,,, we all have the best of intentions .

it seems we are still searching for understandings.. would it be ok to identify with you on a few matters? then we might have something in common and something which might help us understand better could develop from a place of mutual interest.. for me, i responded initially simply because it was obvious (to me) that you had spent some time reviewing a number of others posts here and in summation of all observed, posed a question about whether or not these relationships with therapists. now identified as friends, are in fact unhealthy fixations... good enough question and i have better things to do with my mind than question your integrity when clearly you have made effort to clarify.. maybe im a bit slow...

so are you saying that friendship attachments in general are unhealthy, or, that when we become overly attached to another, that is what you consider to be unhealthy, cause, if thats the case, i would agree... it would take a bit of defining to establish what ' overly attached' is.. and then, we would need to consider each individual separately even tho we could create a general 'norm' ...

i dont think we can summarize in general terms, these are individual cases and it is through the therapeutic process that individual needs are discovered.. that takes considerable time and knowledge of the individuals personal needs, and would not be relative to any established 'norm' ..

since we can sometimes view the therapeutic relationship similarly to a friendship (ideal) we also need to remember that these are also relationships based upon a medical need, and therefore, doctors opinions and recommendations do come under consideration....

if you are going for hit counts, you're doing a very good job by bringing attention to these questions...

Gracey... i have people on these forums i care for and i will speak in their defense.. i dont feel i need to defend that decision as if it were a mental condition requiring attention... im sure you have made a decision to defend those you feel a connection to in the past at some time too? i havent seen you much in the forums so i must conclude that your support comes mainly in the chat areas of the forums? i hope you are recieving the assistance and support you hope for here at our common place of meeting and healing... we all matter, even those who feel vulnerable at times and yes, in the past i have appreciated the care others have shown me by showing a respect not only for me, but for the forums as a whole, protecting the integrity and yes, dignity of others who choose to offer thier knowledge and caring to those who might be in less fortunate circumstances temporarily and who may, for whatever duration of time, use this forum to find others who might feel as they do..

i think lightening up a little was one of the best ideas but still, i feel there are unanswered questions remaining... best to all always

Hello WMD,

Pardon my not reading through this entite disscussion . Im on the first page.

Ill take the statement " I can't live without my T"

Im thinking most here who say that are just omitting one important word.

That word is "WELL"

I couldn't live "well" with out my T or T's . I can now . Still could be living better. My therapaists were the first people I confided in who did treat me well . A few said some things that didn't help and were injurious. Just two come to mind. So.....

That ends the discussion for me.

Patricia

I ' spose that would / could work ,,,recalling * T * s' that were injurious ... But I would be reflecting on what they were talking about >> rather than the way I may have taken it .

Being able to find a way to be ,, errrmmmm ,, have expression without ridicule ,, is the kindness aspect ...

But what if ?? >> Like ,, What if ?? We wanted to be told the truth from our * T * s' ?????
Their HONEST perceptions ?

Personally ,,,,, I have No Fear ......... I totally accept Honesty . Enjoy that moment when all gloves are off >> and the cream rises to the top .

I refer to that as >> accomplishing something .

AND so I can KiLl this thread properly .... :

From the first few posts I was WTF, on myself .. more or less saying ,,, " There is no way >> without IRL saying this ,,[ body language ] ".

This is not face to face >> but cyber space .

What had popped out at me >>> was what I said as OP .
I share a thought that I also learned ,, it was at the time I posted the part about " replace the word * therapist * with * Friend * >> [ close enough ],,, (I actually talk like this IRL ,, LOL . )
What I did learn though ?
Is I have a Friend that >> puts me in ~grounded~ ,, soft - side and can make me Ticked off to the max .... sooooooooooo,,, I get those points asto missing them when they not around / under the weather / cell phone has NO bars ?? LOL .

And I can actually see the make a special dessert or something that you enjoy ,,, I have done this also >> Because of the Friendship ..
and.....
......to get to there takes * ALOT * [ lol ] time & patience with each other .
So ( reckon after a bunch of time clocked with * T * 's ) This journey to finding strength and personal >> " Hey !! I FEEL >>. Great / Fairly Doing Good , & You " >> ,, kinda how that positive spin [ even faked once in awhile ]

But all in all there are each persons way >>>whether a * T * ,,,, or Friend/s/ ,, When we miss someone we think highly of ,, or care deeply for >>> it seems pretty natural ,, to stay in that careing place 24 / 7 ...

And again >> I had told that Friend ,, my >>>fill in blank ___________ [ I am always harder on myself LOL ]

Now I am owed a SLAPPED HEAD and another place ,,,, kicked er something >.... am I allowed to leave now ? [ bows ] B Y E !!!.....

.....Runs away >> before the song * Ramblin' Man * starts playing over & over & & & ,,,,,,,,, { sorry ,, Hope yas not have that song in your heads ..}

Yea ,, like this is going to get any ........ nvm ........ I have been reading threads here [ as I kinda do now ] ,,, let me re-state something .[ Been off and on in therapy for 34 years ]

My biggest question now is more or less the same ...........

After years and hours talking and sharing with a * T * ,, is it so difficult to ,,, see when a * T * is at wits end ,,, when the [ us ] patient , wants more ,,, and the * T * has given all the re - grouping , confidence , self reliance , direction , and Their own observations and advice ,,,,

But yet still ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, the consensus seems to still be >> Bottom line ; wanting for acceptance , attachment , and the >> " can't live without " mentality ?

We go to * T *s' for the ability to build our own lives without FALSE expectations from others >> but from [ best case scenario ] ,,, to be able to be self reliant on our own decision making and choices .

Maybe I have become jaded to the fact that >> NOBODY wants the job fixing me forever .
So it was high time I took the bull by the horns >> and made my own rules ,, with the thought and care for others as I would expect afforded to myself ,, under same like situations .

WMD.

I'm not sure I understand the question.
Do you mean that you don't think your therapy has worked for you, and you are wondering why?

Have you asked your T your questions?
On the other hand, maybe you don't need "fixed" but rather to learn to like yourself in spite of life circumstances...?

is it so difficult to ,,, see when a * T * is at wits end ,,, when the [ us ] patient , wants more ,,, and the * T * has given all the re - grouping , confidence , self reliance , direction , and Their own observations and advice ,,,,

LOL... I 'spose that would be the question .

Personally ,, I just use a * T * to make myself realize ,, I should reflect and put things into perspective ,, as to blowing everything out of proportion .
ATM, not seeing a * T * .
WMD.