Rant About Therapy

On my session, my t also told me that there have been times when she wanted to comfort me. She said, in fact she had hoped that we could reach a point where she could sit with me and hold my hand while we look back at my traumas, so that i could experience them in a different way. But that she very much was aware of "come closer, get away" messages that i give.

I am not certain what she means by this. I guess maybe she is referring to times in the past when I've felt connected with her, but then felt bad about feeling good. I didn't feel deserving, and felt shame about wanting or needing nurturing or attachment because my past has taught me that it is "bad" or "wrong." My t said that her fear about giving me physical comfort is that a part of me would feel shame, and she was afraid that it could lead to self-injury (even though i don't do that -- have only once done it). But I guess she is very aware of how comforting has been warped for me by my abuser, and is afraid that comforting me physically might trigger a bad reaction.

I know that a couple of years ago, we had done some visualizations, etc., to try to help me feel connected with her. Initially, I could not "feel" anything. It was like I was so emotionally guarded and behind walls that, even though I wanted to feel a good connection with her, I just could not, in a sense, let her in. Later, I would be able to feel connected at times, but later (a few hours or a couple of days later), I would lose the good feeling and not be able to bring it up again. Also, whenever I would feel a nice, warm attached feeling with her, it would spark my abandonment fears. I have always been afraid of getting close with her since I know some day the relationship will end. Sometimes also, when I've been able to feel a quick feeling of attachment with her, then shortly after (without realizing it-unconsciously) I've created a problem between us, in order to get distance again.

So. . . even though I feel desperate for a safe and secure attached feeling with my t, I have alot of hangups that keep me from being able to. I realize I give her mixed messages, and I feel bad about it. But I can't seem to help it. I feel haunted by my problems with connection, attachment, abandonment, etc., and just want so badly for her to help me resolve my issues.

It occurs to me that a T might be interested in sending you temporarily to another T with a different specialization, where it would not be a permanent thing. Sort of a consultation with another person. This might not be as threatening to you.

Here's my opinion

I think you are exactly where you need to be. I know when I was a kid I felt emotions about my circumstances, but they were all internalized. When I was in therapy, I expressed them much more and became more and more aware of them. For me, when I left my therapists office is when the work really began. I felt that it was up to me to move forward with whatever I was experiencing. That plays out practically in different ways depending on what the issue was.

I also think that this is different for everyone in some ways. My therapist was a woman, and I had a pretty good relationship with my mom (actually overall there were problems because my mom was, well, human? lol But she was a pretty awesome parent overall, and I was really fortunate to have her) so I really didn't care if my therapist hugged me or whatever. I vaguely recall her sitting next to me (prolly to see where I was at) and she never did it again, but I really didn't care ha ha.

NOW, if I had a MALE T, I think that would be a totaalllly diff story.

I guess my suggestion would be to deal outside of therapy with the issues surrounding the emotions you are experiencing Maybe by journaling? I would journal sometimes and take the journal to my t and read to them when I had difficulty talking to them about an issue.

I hope that helps a little.

Peaches it seems like you and your T are talking about what is going on with this very well. Keep talking about it. You are doing good work together...........

Sunrise,

It sounds like part of your pain comes from the therapy relationship not meeting your expectations. Do you know how you came to the idea that the therapy relationship would meet your most painful unmet needs from childhood? Was it something your T told you he could provide?

I don't know why I assumed that the therapy relationship would meet my unmet needs. I guess because they are unmet. I came into therapy with problems about my childhood, etc., and my t talked about "developmental deficits" that I have that came from my parents not knowing how to meet my needs. What my t has told me is that she can meet some of those needs, and by her doing that, I can learn how to then meet my own needs. I don't feel like I am asking her to do *everything* for me. I am not sure if what I am expecting it too much??

She told me I needed to seek outside support and relationships, share my pain with others in my life, etc. This was not what I wanted to hear!

My t has mentioned this a couple of times, but I think that she is concerned that if I go out and find a friend that I attach to, then I may replay a dynamic I've had in the past of looking for a mother figure. I'm guessing that she'd like me to develop healthy views of friendships and what is appropriate and inappropriate to expect from a friend, so that I will choose a healthy friend for myself and I will be a healthy friend for somebody else. (I'm glad you realized the need for a support system and worked on it. I think I am getting near to being able to start doing this also.)

With the current T, I have learned how to have relationships by having one with him, and that allows me to build relationships more readily outside of therapy.

I do think that the therapy relationship has made me better at communicating. It has definitely taught me much better conflict resolution skills and an ability to see/learn the skills of validation and empathy. I've noticed that my mom seems to be more interested in me over the last couple of years, and I have not figured out why, except that maybe I've learned to communicate with her better.

Maybe it doesn't sound that satisfying.... I have gotten a lot from my T but never expected him to provide it all. Hence, no disappointment. Only joy at what we do have. Which is quite a bit and has so enriched my life.

I know I need to not expect so much. It's not that I want her to be my friend or anything. I don't expect her to socialize with me outside of therapy. But I guess I want to have a relationship with her that does emulate, in some ways, the relationship a person would have with a caring, attuned parent. I know she cannot literally be my parent, but I feel like I do need a relationship that meets some of the needs that I have gone without in my life. Is that expecting too much, do you think?

Sunrise, (whoops! forgot to finish addressing your post!)

I think this is a really key point--not about your T--but that you keep going over the same things over and over again. You sound stuck. Have you asked your T about that?

Yes, I get the sense that there's a cycle where I do fine until I get to a certain place (which is always the same place) -- and that is where I get stuck. My t and I have been talking about how we can get past this barrier.

On my last session, she agreed to (slowly) work with me on getting the physical comfort I need. She said she would get a little closer to me, bit by bit -- titrate it in very small amounts. And then we would process any feelings or reactions that come up. I think she would start by maybe just moving her chair a bit closer to me in session. Then after awhile, if that feels OK, one day maybe she can sit next to me on the couch, etc. And then over time, maybe one day I would feel OK about having her hold my hand if the pain gets too great during trauma work.

My t uses EMDR alot, but I always feel like I am not responding as I should. Either I feel too blocked and nothing comes to me at all, or I suddenly get overwhelmed with emotions that are too intense and have to stop. I asked my t in an email recently why some people can do a few rounds of EMDR and be better -- but why my healing seems to be going so slow? She responded like this:

Those are not people who have complex PTSD. People who have single incident trauma without history of neglect can often use EMDR in that way. We use it in a different way, sometimes by adding things in that were missing.

It sounds like, in your case, you have a history of several traumas, and it works for you to take them one at a time and target them in EMDR. I think the problem with me is that my many issues are all sort of linked and rolled up together. So their power is overwhelming and difficult for me to tolerate. I have a problem trying to just process small amounts of pain and then containing the rest. It all wants to explode out, or it stays pushed down and I feel numb.

Have you thought of doing mind-body work?

You know, I really have thought about this recently. But I really don't want to change t's. I don't think I could afford to see two t's though. I was wondering if even getting an occasional massage might help me connect with my body and release some held in emotions and negative energy. Have you ever done that?

I'm going to check out the link you provided. Have you tried that?

Peaches, I like hour T's and your plan about moving her chair closer gradually and making gradual changes.

Earthmama has mentioned previously that her T will enter into her traumas and tell her what he would do at that time to help and protect her. Maybe your T could do that and hug that little girl at that time???????

StrawberryFieldss,

Here's my opinion

Like you, I internalized feelings as a kid. There was no one to talk to about my anxious and depressed feelings, so I kept them inside or wrote them in my diary. (When I got married 25 years ago, I came across one of my old diaries and was stunned to read just how unhappy and anxiety ridden I had been. Lots of issues with my dad and sister. Real pain. Unfortunately, I threw the diary out. At the time, I was worried about how my family members would feel if they found it, worried what I wrote would hurt their feelings, etc. Now I wish I had it. It would help me so much in therapy to be able to look back at specific experiences that were traumatizing to me. . .there's so much I've forgotten.)

Yes, I also find that the biggest chunk of "work" in therapy takes place outside the sessions. It seems to take a couple of days for things to sink into my brain. Also, my emotional reactions to things that occurred during the session often come out later, after I've already gone home. I do alot of journaling, and that does help. It cuts down on the amount of emails I send my t, as it helps me to work through some of my feelings and reactions on my own. Being able to post here also helps tremendously!

OOPS! The "here's my opinion" was from your post. Didn't mean to include that.

Pachyderm,

It helps to know that you understand what it's like to be coping fine and then WHAM! become dissociated and not be coping at all! I am not multiple either, but I do dissociate under extreme stress. My t says I am about halfway on the dissociation continuum (halfway between normal and DID). My t really trys to help when I dissociate. But I think what is so hard for t's to understand is how it actually feels when you go into that traumatic space where you feel just like an endangered or abandoned child. Since I usually appear to be lucid and have my emotions well under control, I think it can be surprising for t to suddenly see me lose it and then switch into a state where I feel absolutely helpless and insecure. When that happens, attempts by her to appeal to my adult logic don't work very well. It is as though I've transported into the past and am now undergoing the traumatic incident that I stuffed back then.

Sunrise,

Don't worry! I didn't feel pressured by what you said. I appreciated you sharing your honest opinion.

Sannah,

What I did was take a current issue and then tie it back to only the past that is relevant for that issue (in order to problem solve it). This way I was staying solution focused so that you don't just get stuck in the past with no direction. Doing this gives you progress on things which improves your life. I'm not saying that trauma work is never needed though.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Could you explain it a bit more?

Miss Charlotte,

It is, just as you said, "gut wrenching pain." What is so weird is that I know it is old pain that I couldn't express as a child when the traumas initially happened. But the pain comes up in the present, and it hurts so bad, it feels every bit like the trauma is happening today.

. . .particularly when the trauma is complex.

Yes, my t has told me I have "complex PTSD." Strangely enough, I have felt at times like my traumas were not bad enough for me to have Complex PTSD (parents neglected me, but no abuse. My SA was molesting, but not penetration, etc.). But there were too many minor traumas piled up together over time. I also think that because I was so extremely sensitive, things that other, more emotionally sturdy kids would have just let roll off their back, deeply affected me.

I have been able to give to my own kids so maybe I can learn to give to my own inner child, but so far I haven't been.

I can see how being a parent might be an advantage if you can harness the nurturing feelings you have toward your children and direct it toward your own hurting inner child. Unfortunately, I don't have any kids, so can't do that. My t has had me try to compare the tender, caring feelings I had for my dog and then feel that toward myself. But it is so hard. I just don't feel tenderly toward myself and do not know why.

I sometimes think I was better of un-integrated.

I wonder about this too. Seems life was much smoother before I realized how fragmented I really am. (Of course, I was living my life with my eyes half closed and like an emotional robot too. . .)

No, I think many get people get some of their needs met in therapy. I hope your T can help meet some of your needs too, and work with you on how to get some of your needs met outside of therapy too (this comes later!).

We have done EMDR a couple of times that targetted specific incidents. But we also have done more general EMDR, where we go back in time to childhood and work on general abandonment feelings, etc. I think my T uses EMDR very creatively. We haven't done EMDR for a long time, though. I find that very interesting (that we haven't done it for a while), because there have been a number of very specific traumatic past situations that came up in therapy (intense, flashback type things) that would have been good candidates for EMDR, but we did not work on these with EMDR. We worked on these with good old fashioned talk therapy. I'm not sure why that is. Maybe I did enough EMDR and spent enough time with T to have the trust in him and ability to process trauma without the EMDR. I'm not sure. Maybe my brain just learned how to do it without the alternating stimuli. Maybe because T felt me able to deal with those things as they came up. And when we did EMDR we would have to plan it out in advance because it requires a longer session. ("Let's book a 90 minute session next time so we can do EMDR.")

No, I have never had a massage, but very recently, due to an injury, my doctor referred me out for 8 sessions of massage therapy. It's all covered by my insurance, but it took a while to get approved, and now I'm not so sure I'll go as my injury is not bothering me as much as before. Getting a massage is kind of scary for me--I'm not sure why. (I do not have a history of SA.)

As for that other link, http://www.rubenfeldsynergy.com/, no, I have never done that. But I thought a mind-body type of therapy might perhaps be appealing to you because of how you are wanting to work on touch. I would love it if people who have done this sort of work would post in PT because I am really curious about it.

I chose an issue of low self-esteem. Asked myself why I would have low self-worth. Looked in my past and tied it to the relationship between myself and my mother. I worked that out in my mind and was able let go of my low self-worth that was caused by her. So I took a current problem and only looked at the part of my past that addressed it.

I offered this before you started making progress on your issue with your T. You seem to be moving on your issue with what you are doing now with her.....

Peaches, just wanted to pop in and say thanks for starting this thread. I've been following it and several of the things that you've said have resonated with me and helped me think things through.

With regard to the pull/push thing, I like what you said here:

"I guess maybe she is referring to times in the past when I've felt connected with her, but then felt bad about feeling good. I didn't feel deserving, and felt shame about wanting or needing nurturing or attachment because my past has taught me that it is "bad" or "wrong.""

I also do this, and have never really understood why, but I think what you say may be partly true for me too, I feel bad about feeling good. Interesting.

I also liked this a lot:

"I do think that the therapy relationship has made me better at communicating. It has definitely taught me much better conflict resolution skills and an ability to see/learn the skills of validation and empathy."

It's not that I didn't feel empathy for people before, it's just I never knew what to say when people were upset. I also didn't know how to really handle conflict in a non-confrontational way (didn't understand that people were sometimes acting out of hurt), so previously I would just go directly into fighting back instead of being understanding of their hurt. And I feel like therapy is really helping me understand these things that I have not had a chance to learn before. By my T being understanding towards me, I'm learning to be more understanding towards other people. It feels good and I like feeling like I'm growing.

So anyway, thanks Peaches and I'm really glad your T was understanding of your needs and is willing to work with you on them in the future!

Peaches, this is really interesting to me too. I think I'm going to start another thread about the use of old journals, which I've done also. Thanks!

The thing that bothers me is that I think T and other people do not even recognize the difference between the (or the significance of the) healthy state and the severely emotionally-constrained state. I fear they think the constrained state is the normal/desirable state. I hope I am wrong.

oh ... been there ... T said to me, you just seem so ... quiet.

I felt like saying, well what were you expecting from someone who buries all their emotions and then explodes from time to time??? I *am* in here, you know..." ... but I didn't. Probly should have.

Next time?

RiverX,

Forgive me for being dense, but I'm not sure I understand your post correctly. Are you asking me if I am addicted to therapy? Or to the pain? I think that subconsciously, I am, in some ways, trying to resolve the original abandonment wound in my relationship with my t. I hear you saying that it isn't wrong to want to do that. But what did you mean here:

Its only its the principles where the healing has to be rather than the specifics. What are the principles, or dynamics in opperation here, do you think?

I was thinking about this quote you included:

"Where the mother’s libidinal investment is insufficient, that is, where there is neglect abuse, trauma, chronic misatunement, or persistent emotional pressure on a child to submit to a relational bargain primarily designed to serve the mother’s psychological needs as opposed to the child’s, a Disorder of the self will result what will manifest itself as a s stable diagnostic entity with............ " , a Therapists guide to the Personality Disorders, Masterson and Leiberman.

Does the quote mean that when the mother does not sufficiently meet the needs of her child, the child will instead attempt to meet her psychological needs instead? I can see how this dynamic plays out with my mom and I. Do you think it ties in with my therapy with my t somehow?

Earthmama,

I didn't know I had a hole either until after my breakdown. I always hear people say it's better to know and confront the truth than to stay in denial. But my life was easier and smoother when all my "crap" was covered up, when I didn't realize how empty I was and how much it hurt to not have the affection, emotional support, and protection as a child. You are right, it is a horrible realization to finally understand what you missed and to realize that there's no way of re-doing your childhood to get those needs met. We can get some needs me by t, but much has to come from us. My unmet needs are intensely scary to me, and I'm not sure how I will ever fill the holes and cracks (kind of like trying to glue together a stained glass window). I believe the only complete healing will come under God's Kingdom. Until then, all we can do is our best.

My t and I talked last week (again!) about the subject of touch, and she has said she will work on getting closer, slowly, and we can gauge how different parts of me react to it. I'm trying to feel happy not that she has agreed, but I can't help feeling that I "forced" the issue and that the comfort she offers isn't from her heart. I've told her I don't want her to do anything that she is not comfortable doing or thinks will not be good for me. She says she does not feel forced or harrassed about it. But still. . . if she's gone this many years without providing a hug or any kind of physical comfort, then it must be for a reason. I guess I feel guilty because it seems like I've had to almost beg for this. . .

(((((((((((((((peaches)))))))))))))))

I think we know what we need to heal. My T has taught that to me. You know what you need, and you are working hard to get it. That is not something to feel guilty about....it is something to feel proud of.

There have been many times when I have needed something from T and it's been so hard to get him to understand what it is, or why. But when we work through it, and he meets the need, we both see why it was so important to my healing.

T asks me to trust the process....I have asked him to do the same thing, and he has told me that it's a good reminder for him.

I think you are doing great.

On last week's session, I talked to my t a little bit about my religious beliefs. I told her that I'd copied down a number of scriptures about dealing with anxiety and relying on God. We talked about how when I'm in my adult frame of mind, I have a good grip on my beliefs and understand how God can be a source of strength and safety for me. But when I get triggered into a dissociative, child-like state, I seem to forget some things that I well know. For example, in the same way that I have a hard time feeling t's presence with me when I dissociate, I also tend to forget about God's strength being there for me. I feel really bad about this because my beliefs are strong and I should always be aware that His help is there for me. I don't know why I tend to forget that when I go into a triggered state.

Anyway. . .I told t we had a Bible study book for children. I've never read it because I don't have children and have never studied the Bible with any young children. T suggested I read it to myself. I sat down and tried to imagine myself fully present, even the part of myself that feels like a child sometimes. I really couldn't bring up the childish feelings. But anyway, I sat down and read the first chapter of the book.

You won't believe what it was about. . .

. . .Jesus providing safe touch to children.

The story was based on some scriptures where a group of children approached Jesus. His disciples turned them away, believing that the kids should not bother Jesus. But Jesus said, "Let the young children come to me! Do not try to stop them! For the Kingdom of the Heavens belongs to such-like ones." Then it says Jesus took them into his arms.

So there it is. He knew children needed physical affection and connection. It's so clear to me why I've felt so bad about not getting that as a child, and feeling like I need it now. It's such a basic need.

I'm so upset that the memories I have of being cuddled and held are with the man who molested me. It has warped my mind/body about something that is so natural and human and good.

I hope I haven't broken any rules by mentioning my religion. It's not an attempt to convert or anything. It just was tied in with my current struggle.

I have my session today. I wonder if I should bring this up.

Yes, bring it up! It sounds like you made a significant connection to this biblical story and could further explore with your T.

I really liked how you explained that when you go to your childlike state, you lose the understanding and memory of God. So you are reading a book for children on the bible so that you can give your child self some knowledge of God and the bible that she can understand. Then when you go to your child state, maybe your child will not have lost the understanding and knowledge of God. I consider this fantastic problem solving! I hope it works for you. Keep going in that book.