[jacq10]

I had an amazing session with my T today... we worked through so much, and I'm so glad that i made the decision to switch back to her. I've known her for aprx 3 years now, and so she's not afraid to call me on things - which is exactly what I need.

Through the past couple of sessions, I've been mid-sentence and she's interrupted me asking questions, or re-framing what i'm saying into a statement. This might sound harsh, but I really talk around things a lot and so I need this form of structure.

Anyways, today, she asks me if I feel as though there is something that I am "getting" out of being depressed. Obviously, my initial reaction is a) offended and then b) oh crap.. what if she's right.

So I ask her "what could I possibly get out of being depressed?" Unfortunately, my brain could only half focus on her response because it was so busy justifying why I would NOT be getting anything out of it. What I did manage to absorb though was that she said it can become a part of a person's identity. And that sometimes, even though we may feel like crap, being depressed almost allows us to not strive for greatness because we think that we can't obtain anything... so its almost safer for us to not put ourselves out there.

I argued that there have been times in my life where I have felt ok, and that depression somehow has found its way back. So if i did "get somthing out of it" why would I go through periods of feeling good? And why would I be working so hard at staying happy?

Anyhow.. what do you guys think of this? Can you try and look at yourselves objectively and see what you might get out of it? I realise this is an odd question, and I had to really look deep to find any answers (because clearly being depressed doesn't feel like a choice)... but I think that maybe my T hit something on the head. What if I do limit myself to possible goals and achievments because somewhere in this head of mine, i feel as though I can't... I can't because of the depression.. and that makes me feel less guilty for not trying?

thoughts?

[gravyyy]

I've actually taken myself down this road before. I kept going over in my mind why I wasn't getting better, why I wasn't rebounding from the depression. I worried that deep down I didn't WANT to get better. Like I was somehow keeping myself sick becuase I was getting something from it. I brought this up with my t and she basically said that it didn't make sense. Through the darkest days I managed to scrape myself off the bed and get to work only to come back and collapse back in the bed. Her feeling was that as long as I was putting one foot in front of the other then I wasn't keeping myself in a self-perpetuating model of depression. I guess the answer to this question for you would be to examine your thoughts and behaviors. I think if you feel like you're doing all the right things but you're not getting better then maybe you're not getting anything out of it. If you look within and find that maybe you're using the depression as an excuse for something then maybe it's something to discuss. But if that's the case then is it that you're "getting something out of being depressed" or is it a symptom of the illness?? I don't think there's a right answer.

[Mouse_]

I'm not sure I can finger it exactly, but yes depression does cover a lot of things..one of the reasons for me is it keeps my desires at bay so I cannot be disappointed all over again, it stops me feeling "part off" because then I'd have to re-think who I am as my identity has always been so wrapped up in abandoment and rejection so that I think I turn it around on socieity, "It" abandoned me, so I will now abandon "it"...

[chaotic13]

It give me an excuse for not getting up and taking action to change my situation. It give me an excuse/ label for my unhappiness.

[mixedup_emotions]

Good question.......As awful as depression is, it "feels safe".....I don't know if that makes sense....

[MissCharlotte]

Depression is my body's way of making me connect with parts of myself that were locked away for years.

At the same time it gives me a place to hide. When I am depressed I give myself permission to disengage from others and retreat into myself and literally into my bed.

[ECHOES]

Depression as a defense--a great thing to explore. Thanks for the food for thought.

[Christina86]

Hey (((((((((((Jacq))))))))))))))

If I remember correctly, my therapist has asked me the same question before too...

I dunno. It's familiar and safe mostly. If I'm depressed that means I can't do x,y,z so I have an excuse or "out". If I'm depressed, people expect less of me which helps if I fear failing. If I'm depressed, it's easier for me to accept help from others and hugs and support - people seem more willing to help instead of me having to ask all the time. If I'm depressed, that means I don't have to "change" and I hate change. If I'm depressed, I have an excuse to feel crappy and to take care of myself... especially if growing up I wasn't allowed to "feel" what I'm feeling.

Actually I just remembered... my T actually asked me what I "got" out of self-injuring, but I guess it can be the same idea...

[filifera]

The first time I read this thread, I clicked away from it and said "that's not me, I do not want to be depressed, I hate feeling this way, I have nothing to gain from being depressed, it's only hurting me."

I read it again a few hours later and decided it's actually a really good question to ask myself. I am getting something out of it. I'm still angry, hurt and upset about changes at work that I didn't like, and the depression "proves" that "they" (whoever made the decision in the first place, and couldn't be talked into changing their minds about it) were wrong, and that it would and did make me sick, and that was All Their Fault.

I can be really really stubborn, especially when I know I'm in the right. I can be so stubborn that I end up making *myself* sick as a result. It's a way of making the people who annoy me suffer right along with me in the hell they created for me. It's also a way to make people leave me alone because nobody wants to provoke the crazy person.

My own therapist asked why I was giving people so much power. I think I finally understand what she meant, and what the answer should be. I don't have to give them that power, they don't care whether I give them power or not, and it only hurts me to allow them to make me feel so bad.

I did manage to show a few people in the past few months how it felt to be as angry and bitter as I was. But this has cost me way more than it was worth. I'm the one who ended up sick, not the people I was trying to "hurt back". The ones who got that message, though, were the ones trying to help me, not the ones I was blaming for hurting me in the first place. There's nothing to be gained by trying to torture the bad guys, karma doesn't work that way. They'll get their "lesson" in the right way at the right time, just as I realize I've now gotten my "lesson".

Thank you for turning on the light.

[jacq10]

Thank you SO much to everyone who posted in response to this thread. I'm glad that this question has opened up possibilities for people to consider, I was hoping it might as my T did the same for me.

I think the important thing to remember is that, while maybe depression is -for lack of a better work - an "excuse" to not challenging yourself fully, it doesn't mean that you CAN'T and that in the future you will not. I think that even by just opening up to the possibility of this shows that you are already making a step in the right direction. A step for change. A step for possibility.

Many hugs to all...

Jacq

[Rhapsody]

While I would have to say that most people fight against depression even when it is chemically induced - I will also have to say that some people wallo in depression for the attention they receive from it.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by jacq10

What do you get out of being Depressed?

Survival. Protection. Energy conservation.

I've thought before about why depression is so common. Being a biologist and knowing that at least some depression has a biological basis, it means that evolution has selected for this trait for thousands and thousands of years. What could be so valuable about depression that it would be preserved over the millenia? I was taking this interdisciplinary course on Addiction a year or two ago and we looked at some interesting research that related to this question of mine about depression. I learned about "learned helplessness" in animals and how it is thought this may be similar to depression in humans (similar biochemistry in the two situations). Here are a couple of examples of learned helplessness. When 2 mice (or rats) are in a cage together and one is dominant and will beat the c**p out of the other, the less dominant one does this "learned helplessness" behavior where it will just lie there and not move or fight or anything. The dominant rodent will leave it alone when it does this. So the less dominant mouse lives to see another day. Very valuable behavior! Another example is the swim tank experiment with mice. If you put a mouse in a swim tank it will swim around until by trial and error it finds a small platform hidden just under the water's surface where it can rest. If there is no swim platform, the mouse would eventually drown (sounds cruel, but they don't let them drown). In normal mice, when the mouse has exhausted the possibilities and looked all over the tank and not found a platform, it gives up and goes into the so-called "learned helplessness" behavior and just goes limp and floats on the surface of the water expending as little energy as possible. In this way, it can remain alive as long as possible, and if environmental conditions should change (the water is let out of the tank, a researcher rescues it, a platform suddenly appears), it is alive to take advantage of the change of events. If it had continued to swim around frantically, it would have died. Interestingly, when the gene for a brain chemical that induces depression in mammals (humans too) is eliminated by gene tinkering, the mice seem normal in most respects but are unable to do the "learned helplessness" behaviors. So they will swim around the tank frantically, wasting all their energy, and drown sooner than their chums who are still able to be depressed. So this sort of behavior has huge adaptive/survival value in certain circumstances.

There are more experiments too. Learning all this allowed me to give some meaning to my depression. It was easy to get down on myself for being depressed (the you-should-be-able-to-pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps mentality), but now I saw that depression did have adaptive value (explaining why it had been preserved by evolution). I saw then that my being depressed had protected me in a bad situation in my life, allowed me to survive in what seemed a hopeless situation, and conserve energy until a better day came along. It wasn't much fun when I was in the middle of it, but I see now it was a very natural way to react to circumstances and my body/brain was just trying to protect me and help me live to see another day. I talked about this with my therapist a couple of times and he said also that being so depressed allowed me to stay in my marriage longer, and this did have some value, no matter how unhappy I may have been. My children got to be in a two-parent home for most of their childhood, and I think this had a lot of advantages for them. Material resources for one, but also more parental attention since there are 2 parents instead of only 1 (at a time). The depression helped numb me to the situation and allowed me to tolerate it.

Anyway, this interpretation really helped me make peace with my depression as I saw it had had some value. I felt like I could shake hands with it and be at peace. I know this interpretation probably isn't going to fit all people, but it made a lot of sense in relation to my situation. Now better times have come, and I don't need to be depressed anymore. There is no value now. And I'm not depressed. (I have found the hidden platform under the water.)

[Mouse_]

Originally Posted by Rhapsody

While I would have to say that most people fight against depression even when it is chemically induced - I will also have to say that some people wallo in depression for the attention they receive from it.

Bit harsh.

[jacq10]

(((((((((sunrise))))))))))
Thank you so much for taking the time to explain this all to us. I have studied Learned Helplessness myself, but it was some time ago, and I had forgotten its relevance to depression. Looking at it objectively (biologically) like this, certainly does make sense in the course of evolution, so why shouldn't it be applied today?!

[AllyH88]

I wouldn't say I wallow in it. In fact, I try to keep a happy smile plastered onto my face as much as I can so no one will know how I really feel.

If there's anything I "get" out of being depressed, it's an excuse (as most have already said) to hate the world. Meaning, when I'm at my most depressed, the rose-tinted glasses come off and I 'permit' myself to see people for what they really are: selfish, conformist, back-stabing... I could go on. Depression can be an excuse not to take responsibility and say it's not me, it's everyone else, so it's natural I would feel this way.

Just my two cents.

[mazer34]

when Im depressed I feel people care about me,I feel loved and mothered when I see and speak about it to them,my parents never showed love or emotion so maybe thats why.

[MissCharlotte]

I think that genetics plays a huge role in depression. And the combination of genetic predisposition combined with circumstance can overwhelm and throw one into a depression (as it did with me).

When I am very depressed I try very hard not to let anyone know how depressed I am. I don't wallow. This most recent depression I was able to tell T, and H both. I think this was the first time I was able to state my needs and how I felt and that I needed help.