[SambaKicks76]

Hi folks, been in in in and out of the mental health system for 14 years...been diagnosed Bi-polar once but but but then changed to Borderline. Took meds but but but didn't like them. Gone to to to therapy but doctors always a) refuse to to to accept me after initial assessment 2) treat me then then then drop me without reason or referral 3) always ended up in in in the hospital, involuntarily (cuz I cut & am open about my my my suicidal thoughts). just got out of of of the hospital a month ago after my T dropped me...he he he had me taken away against my will, cops picked me up at my my my new job...embarassing but my employer was was was good about it all. My T wouldn't even return my my my phone calls while I was in the crisis center. Now I dont know if if if I have the courage to try again. Made a phone call today to to to someone for phone numbers & referalls for possible therapists. Unfortunately, I live in in in a state (Florida) that is so quick to put you away for for for even blinking about suicide. The the the guy I talked to today made me promise I wouldn't hurt myself and and and I think he is gonna follow up with me to to to make sure I make the phone calls that he provided. Just worried now that he he he might put me away too. Just feel like giving up...any any any thoughts guys??? I'm new to to to this site. Thanks 4 listening!!

[emilyjeanne]

Just a thought.....If you tell a provider that you feel suicidal then they are obligated to place you in protective custody. It is in your best interest. Maybe you need a different level of care. A residential program.

[Simcha]

Originally Posted by SambaKicks76

Hi folks, been in in in and out of the mental health system for 14 years...been diagnosed Bi-polar once but but but then changed to Borderline. Took meds but but but didn't like them. Gone to to to therapy but doctors always a) refuse to to to accept me after initial assessment 2) treat me then then then drop me without reason or referral 3) always ended up in in in the hospital, involuntarily (cuz I cut & am open about my my my suicidal thoughts). just got out of of of the hospital a month ago after my T dropped me...he he he had me taken away against my will, cops picked me up at my my my new job...embarassing but my employer was was was good about it all. My T wouldn't even return my my my phone calls while I was in the crisis center. Now I dont know if if if I have the courage to try again. Made a phone call today to to to someone for phone numbers & referalls for possible therapists. Unfortunately, I live in in in a state (Florida) that is so quick to put you away for for for even blinking about suicide. The the the guy I talked to today made me promise I wouldn't hurt myself and and and I think he is gonna follow up with me to to to make sure I make the phone calls that he provided. Just worried now that he he he might put me away too. Just feel like giving up...any any any thoughts guys??? I'm new to to to this site. Thanks 4 listening!!

So how'd it go? Did you get a new therapist?

[SpottedOwl]

(((SambaKicks)))

I'm so sorry you were hospitalized against your will. I don't blame you for being afraid of it happening again.

First of all, do not give up on yourself. No matter what bumps come alone, believe in yourself -- even if its only with 1%, keep that hope alive.

In a very practical sense, you have been in the mental health system, and the best way to protect yourself is to find a therapist you feel good about who can be your advocate.

It can be really hard to make those calls, but remember you have the absolute right to pick the doctor you want to work with. Interview them, and make sure that you like their approach before you decide to start therapy. It might help to write out a list of questions and concerns ahead of time, or imagine you're at work conducting an interview to take the pressure off.

The therapeutic relationship is the most important part of the healing process. It is well worth taking the time to find someone you like.

[imapatient]

Originally Posted by emilyjeanne

Just a thought.....If you tell a provider that you feel suicidal then they are obligated to place you in protective custody. It is in your best interest. Maybe you need a different level of care. A residential program.

It's not the simple. Feeling suicidal itself--saying you feel that way, doesn't get you committed. Plenty of people talk about their suicidal feelings. If you couldn’t do that at all you couldn't get therapy for suicidal feelings. I can’t even begin to count the number of sessions where I’ve talked about suicidal feelings. My partial hospitalization and day treatment programs ask each day if you feel suicidal, then if you feel safe and what your safety plan is.

The 2 things that need to be in place—in my state or similarly elsewhere I'm told--are 1. A specific plan to carry out--and the means—your suicide thoughts and 2. the intent to carry it out. If you tell your T you're going to do it when you walk out of his office, seem sincere about it, e.g. not speaking sarcastically or hypothetically, and have the plan and means, you’re gone. If you say you have a plan and the means but don't intend to do it--and are believeable, they won't take you. I've walked around for years with a plan in mind and in possession of the means, which my T and pdoc knew, but without intent so they never had cause to commit me.

For the more subjective situations where you haven't spoken directly about these things, they have to assess you for those things, but I was told by a T and pdoc that if it can't be "reasonably" concluded by a “prudent” pro that you meet those two criteria, they can't commit you. If you express suicidal thoughts, expect a T to ask if you’re safe, if you have a specific plan in mind (though might know your plan you carry in mind and usu. about means but they might know that already), and if you intend to carry it out—as a given. Had it happen to me tonight. No plan, no intent, so I got to come home.

[imapatient]

As I'm sure has been pointed out to you, if the same scenarios keep playing out with you and mental health pros, the odds that they're all screwed up/unprofessional in the same ways diminish with each additional one of them involved. One bad T, sure. 2 bad T's in the same way? Hmm. 3? Very hard to believe.

Maybe there's a communication problem. Maybe the way you talk about some of the issues--cutting, suicidal feelings, etc. come across as more serious or "different" somehow than they usually hear, so they think you're in worse shape than you really are and then you get kicked around. Obviously, there's a lot going around that you don't have the room to tell us, but how about trying to talk to one-1-one T solidly for a while not as a regular T to get therapy per se with, but to talk about why you have so many problems with the system, like maybe the lingo and style you use sets off alarms with T's and pdocs that aren't on the mark. Like my comments about talking about suicidal feelings. Or to help point out patterns in the situations without himself having to be part of the big pile of T’s trying to treat your life/mental issues. Someone not invested in “taking care” of you per se like a regular T.

Maybe some of that could be pointed out by someone who's just dedicated in the short-term to give you feedback and insight into what T's and pdocs think when they hear you express your thoughts so you can conform--ugly concept, but necessary sometimes--a bit communication-wise and not get things turned around unnecessarily. I've needed help from an outside expert to help me understand the way I was coming across in a T's eyes--without me being wrong or at fault; just my natural instinct to explain things in a less than ideal way that interfered with my care.

[ECHOES]

I live in Florida and talk to my T about suicidal thoughts. We talk about it: how did the thoughts begin, what was going on, etc. Of course she is also evaluating my present state of mind.

I am lucky that another T told me once that suicidal thoughts are a way of saying how much pain a person is in; *this much* pain. Lucky because I can think of that and be reminded that it is pain that seems to have nowhere to go, that needs someone to listen to it, someone to comfort it.
It nees ME to express it so it can be relieved. My talking about it starts this process of relief. The more I do it, the easier it is to notice the *this much* pain that is there and that needs my attention. The earlier I notice it, the earlier I can start the process of relieving it and so the intensity of the experience is lessened and less dramatic.

My T knew I was borderline before I did. Only after reading on my own did I approach her with the idea that it seemed to apply to me, and she readily agreed and said she'd thought that for some time. The diagnosis isn't a focus of my therapy.
I also decline meds at this time but took them for years.

She is available to me by phone between sessions. She is a LMHC (licenses mental health counselor) and has a Masters and just finished psychoanalytic training. When I looked into the LMHC designation, I liked what I read. Before this T, I thought only a Psychologist could do 'good' therapy. Not so, I found out. This therapy I am in is great.

I have had many other T's but the therapy was not very helpful.
This time I research therapists and therapies to figure out what I wanted.
Here's a site that helped me: www.guidetopsychology.com.
Once I determined that I wanted psychoanalytic/psychodynamic therapy, I contacted the nearest psychoanalytic training institute and asked if they had any candidates who were in practice in my area. (A candidate is an student who is already a therapist, who is highly qualified, and has been screened for admission to the institute. I felt good about choosing someone who had been accepted by the training institute). I was lucky that they had someone to refer me to.

Keep looking and I'm sure you will find a T who can work well with you.
"Trust the process" as my T has told me from day one.

[phoenix7]

i hope you can find a T you can work with

[hangingon]

My T and I were actually talking about suicidal thoughts last night. I brought it up when she was asking how I feel about her being there for me ect. I sort of zoned out so I don't remember all she said. I think I said something about knowing she cared but needing to convince myself of that, she had asked me about that, what that felt like.

I couldn't really talk a whole lot but I think I said something like not feeling worthy. Then I said sometimes I don't want to be here, not meaning here in the room with you, but here. She said something to the effect of , you mean not wanting to live. I said yes and I know thats so stupid. She said it's not stupid at all, it's an indication of how painful these things are for you.

That was huge of me as I still have a hard time talking about feelings at all, or feeling that for that matter. I am better at smothering them. Sometimes she talks about anger and I say I don't have any, that I know of anyways. She said, I know I never see that from you. She said sometimes when you talk about conflicting feelings, I feel that it's in there somewhere.

Anyways, she let me see that its ok to have those feelings, they represent the depth of pain. If she had seen that I was not stable at that point or was actually planning something, I'm sure she would have pursued things further for my safety.

I think you need to find a T that deals specifically with Borderline personality, you may find that much more helpful to you. Finding a T who knows the range of emotions and how to work with them is huge, and more than that, someone you can trust. I am sorry you have had such a hard time with medical professionals. I wish you luck with your search.

[SambaKicks76]

Found a T from the the the resources link on this website...he emailed me back and and and he is going to call me next week to try and and and help me and and and give me consultation. Trying not to to to give up.

[phoenix7]

Yeah - well done I hope it works out for you P7