[artie]

I've noticed it is sometimes difficult or impossible to find a woman intelligent and sexy at the same time. For instance I was talking to a barmaid I thought was stunning, when I found out she was studying ecomonics at university I instantly forgot about her.

The first thing that comes to mind is I am threatened by them, feel inferior and want to be the dominant male, but I generally find only dominant women attractive.

I was thinking it might be a primitive brain (sexuality) versus frontal cortex (intelligence) issue, perhaps these are incompatable parts of the brain, that can't work together at the same time. Like trying to look at both sides of a coin at the same time.

Any thoughts, aside from the predictable phoney pick up line "I find intelligent women sexy"

[salukigirl]

Doesn't sound like you don't find them, sounds like you ignore them. I used to date a guy that was extremely intimidated that not only did I make more money than him but I had a 4.0 in school while working. We eventually broke up because he forced me to quit my job so he could hang on to his masculinity.

You just flat out said you thought a girl was stunning until she was an economics major at a university. Sounds more like a personal problem with yourself - not the girls you find. Sounds like you don't WANT an intelligent girl. Which typically means you don't like something about yourself, not them. Work on being more secure with yourself. You never have to prove yourself to be more than a woman in any way to be masculine. And women should never have to feel unsexy simply because they are intelligent. Cause I'll tell you what.... I'm a Zoology major and a chemistry minor getting my BS with honors and going on to grad school this fall while working 2 jobs ever since high school. I'm extremely intelligent but I'm damn sexy too!

If your relationships are one man and one women, your are the dominant male.

[NuckingFutz]

And the only male.

but not necessarily dominant

[NuckingFutz]

In otherwords, the two are not mutually exclusive

If there is only one man in the relationship, that man is the dominant male. The male may be dominated by the female, but his status does not change. Until another male enters the picture he has no competition and is the dominant.

[artie]

Originally Posted by salukigirl

Doesn't sound like you don't find them, sounds like you ignore them. I used to date a guy that was extremely intimidated that not only did I make more money than him but I had a 4.0 in school while working. We eventually broke up because he forced me to quit my job so he could hang on to his masculinity.

You just flat out said you thought a girl was stunning until she was an economics major at a university. Sounds more like a personal problem with yourself - not the girls you find. Sounds like you don't WANT an intelligent girl. Which typically means you don't like something about yourself, not them. Work on being more secure with yourself. You never have to prove yourself to be more than a woman in any way to be masculine. And women should never have to feel unsexy simply because they are intelligent. Cause I'll tell you what.... I'm a Zoology major and a chemistry minor getting my BS with honors and going on to grad school this fall while working 2 jobs ever since high school. I'm extremely intelligent but I'm damn sexy too!

Sorry, it is a touchy subject, I was trying to help the cause of intelligence in both sexes, not offend anyone intelligent, especially a woman.

Intelligent woman often are much more sexy. I just thought I'd noticed it seems to be hard for them to both at the same moment. I think sex is an animalistist thing, discussing quantum mechanics or balance sheets isn't.

Also I used the word attractive rather than sexy to be less offensive. but there is a difference, sometimes people can be enduringly attractive/captivating, because of intense intelligence, or a big heart say, but sexiness isn't the most obvious thing about them.

I wouldn't worry about this too much, any worthwhile male is going to use his head as well as his ........ in selecting a partner, unless he's drunk in a bar & unlucky enough to get lucky.

I don't think it's desirable to be sexy all the time anyway, it gets in the way of serious, civilised, activities.

Everyone has their opinions. Thanks for sharing yours.

[salukigirl]

And I wasn't really offended. I have just had many relationships where after a few months I start to figure out that the man is very uncomfortable with my motivation or grades or money etc... Then when I look back I see that they wanted me to be the submissive woman to them.

Personally, coming from a woman's perspective, a man could be a little chunky, not have the most perfect face, but still be extremely sexy to me if he does something like sticks up for me or goes for what he wants. Just took me a while to find a guy that liked those same things in a woman.

[jerrymichele]

I would like to say just take a chance. I have no idea on the science part of it. I have read that a man's smell has something to do with a woman being attracted to a man. Just ask them out. How you going to know how a relationship can be if you don;t try.

[artie]

My idea about incompatability of appreciating sexiness & intelligence is just a theory, even if there is something to it, I'm sure it's not the whole story.

Reponding to your comment

I think a lot of reasonable men are frightened by smart successful women because they think they will not be interested in them. Supposedly women still more often choose men better off than them (& men vice-versa), despite 40 years of feminism.

I think it might be possible to alleviate these fears by (repeatedly) making it clear you don't see things that way.

I also think it's up to these men (perhaps including me) not to be such scaredy-cats.

There are still plenty of men whole are not reasonable and just want submission, and even a few who are after more successful women so they can get their money!

I think stereotypes promote a lot of misinformation.

[catrules]

I have had many male friends, where they find intelligence sexy. Having your mind stimulated by another can lead to a better connection which I think often leads to sexual attraction.

[salukigirl]

If you strictly look at the biology aspect of this whole situation (I'm a zoologist so this is compulsive for me anyways), women are always going to be attracted to the male that shows better genes. Whether we realize it or not, we are a product of evolution. Meaning, a male with better genes to a dog might be one that is bigger and fights off others for dominance. In our society, that equals out to being who makes the most money. That only makes sense because, you would assume, the male with the more money has bigger ambitions, works harder for what they have or are perhaps more intelligent. Whether this is true or not is not of concern, its simply how we perceive things.

Men, however, are conditioned to look for a woman that would be a good mother. This means seeing those nurturing characteristics and that, in our society, equates to being submissive or not powerful. A woman with a low of ambition or power doesn't come across as a mother-type. And at the end of the day, we all just want to carry on our genes.

However, if we go into that it opens up a whole other can of worms. Because we also are not technically supposed to be monogamous. Mammals change partners every birthing cycle. I guess my point is, there are logical, scientific reasons why we want certain things in people and why marriages tend to break up after a certain amount of time. Everything we're talking about is our way of fighting evolution and fighting our natural biology. Its just up to you whether its worth the fight.

Like I said before, stereotyping promotes a lot of misinformation.

[salukigirl]

Like I said before, stereotyping promotes a lot of misinformation.

How does that pertain to what I said?

[artie]

Originally Posted by salukigirl

If you strictly look at the biology aspect of this whole situation (I'm a zoologist so this is compulsive for me anyways), women are always going to be attracted to the male that shows better genes. Whether we realize it or not, we are a product of evolution. Meaning, a male with better genes to a dog might be one that is bigger and fights off others for dominance. In our society, that equals out to being who makes the most money. That only makes sense because, you would assume, the male with the more money has bigger ambitions, works harder for what they have or are perhaps more intelligent. Whether this is true or not is not of concern, its simply how we perceive things.

Men, however, are conditioned to look for a woman that would be a good mother. This means seeing those nurturing characteristics and that, in our society, equates to being submissive or not powerful. A woman with a low of ambition or power doesn't come across as a mother-type. And at the end of the day, we all just want to carry on our genes.

However, if we go into that it opens up a whole other can of worms. Because we also are not technically supposed to be monogamous. Mammals change partners every birthing cycle. I guess my point is, there are logical, scientific reasons why we want certain things in people and why marriages tend to break up after a certain amount of time. Everything we're talking about is our way of fighting evolution and fighting our natural biology. Its just up to you whether its worth the fight.

This is quite an interesting chat.

I think intelligent successful women might have to fight these primitive instincts if they want to keep reproducing, there won't be enough men more successful than them to go around & they will be unattractive/unattainable to all the those below them.

The human race might gradually become less & less intelligent as an unexpected side effect of womans lib, fewer & fewer smart female genes being passed on each generation...

I'm definately not suggesting they should settle for guys with "loser" genes, that's the last thing we need, but settling for someone roughly equal might be something both sexes may have to get used to if we don't want to get dumber & dumber as a species.

I have a lot of faith in peoples ability to overcome or at least outsmart their primitive instincts with the right insight, that's really the only reason I'm interested in psychology, it's helped me a lot like that.

[inked81]

How is your self-esteem? It could be that you feel you have nothing to offer someone who appears to have it all. There is a bit more to that, mainly as a result of patriarchy and those who still wish to uphold it's ideals,but from what I have seen, when it comes down to it, that is usually (although no always) the case for both men and women.

[artie]

In many repects my self esteem is good. I've realized I feel threatened by intelligent women who are very attractive because I become a moron when I find a woman very attractive, can hardly string a sentence together.

The fact that they are trying to make an impression by showing how intelligently they can chatter about complex subjects turns the whole situation into excrutiating torture (& not some fun S&M kind of torture).

I wonder if there is any way out of this, choosing women I feel more equal to in attractiveness perhaps, but sometimes these super attractive smart women show an interest in me which hard to walk away from.

[RomanSunburn]

I'm kind of interested in why you think that the women's liberation movement would have an impact on the intelligence of the human race... I understand your whole evolution theory up until that point... I think one point that you were missing about the women's liberation movement was the fact that roles are reversing. My boyfriend has stated that he would be perfectly fine letting me be the breadwinner for the family while he stayed home to raise the family, but he'd also be okay if I wanted to be a stay at home mom, or if I wanted to be anything else in between. But I don't feel that those decisions have made any impact on our level of intelligence. And I'm not sure how that would change the level of intelligence in the future. I'm not trying to come off as an ultra-liberal, feminist, nor am I trying to offend anyone. I'm also not offended myself, I'm just curious as to your logic. That's all

All the best,
Ro

Originally Posted by artie

I've realized I feel threatened by intelligent women who are very attractive because I become a moron when I find a woman very attractive, can hardly string a sentence together.

it sounds like this really is the issue for you. i also think you need to be careful about not trying to project this onto women by saying it's hard to find an intelligent woman sexy at the same time. this is your issue and not anything biological. honestly, it is garden variety sexism. rather than avoiding smart but sexy women why not continue a conversation with them and learn to see them as real, multi-faceted people? the only way to get over a fear is to face it. i'm sure you'll regain your intelligence after spending a bit of time with them. it is good to remember that women are people and not objects for your gratification.

[salukigirl]

First off - Bloom, I love you lol. Second, I feel like some of this has to do with being secure in your own masculinity. I love it when "men" think that the only way to be a man is to be big and strong and smarter than a woman. When, really, a man is someone who is comfortable in their own skin. My boyfriend has no issue with me being intelligent or motivated, but he does have some issues with just being comfortable with himself. So sometimes that manifests itself as snapping at me or having his little macho moments where he needs to feel like the big man. It's gotten better but sometimes he still feels like he has to assert his dominance and we have talked about how that's because he isn't secure in himself. Come to think of it....I'm not sure I have ever really met a guy that wasn't at least a little threatened by me.

I really don't understand women's lib having anything to do with intelligence either. If anything it would be the opposite because women now have more opportunities to become educated and to, therefore, give their children the same opportunity. I almost take that as an insult because, to me, it sounds like you're coming dangerously close to saying that women becoming educated means society becomes dumber........

[Rhapsody]

My answer is simply.... I think men still want (almost need) to feel like the breed winner and protector of all that are involved in his circle of life, therefore, successful intelligent sexy females often frighten them away.

[Ratanddragon]

My take on this comes from an example: Mae West was a bona fide American sex symbol. Men wanted her---women wanted to be her. She was also a very plain woman. She's an excellent example of the difference between sexy and pretty. With her, it comes down to attitude and presentation, 'cause she didn't have looks. THAT is related to intelligence....she figured out what worked for her and ran with it. As I see it, women today simply have more venues in which to demonstrate their brains than were available 60 years ago. Tradition, which we all have to deal with to some degree, is not up to helping guys figure it out.