[Distressed2010]

Hi,

as many of you who have read my previous posts, I still have the family drama going on.

But in the midst of all this chaos, I'm trying to figure out if I'm aggressive in my speech or manners. I know i'm assertive, but I fear I might be aggressive. I wonder if i'm doing something wrong?

I fear this because last summer I attended a Theatre institute and I felt at times that people were quiet turned off by me. I know I was very passionate about theatre and not sure if I was coming off as self righteous or whatever. I just know when I was in graduate school, I didn't get that vibe from anyone, and usually people loved having me around but at this theatre thing, I felt people were quiet turned off by me.

So, back to my family thing. I would like to know if I was too aggressive/overly assertive in the following scenario:

My uncle owes my mother some property from my grandmother. It's been 25 years since she died. He's holding our property in his control until my mother doesnt sign all his papers FIRST and transfer all his property first, THEN he will give her her share. It's really hard to explain the history and everything behind this so I will spare it. Basically its not in my grandma's will but it was her dying wish to give my mom one piece of property out of 20 or so in total that are going to my uncle.

I felt it was highly unfair of him to get my mother to sign first and keep her waiting when both could do transfers at the same time. My mom signed 3 years ago and the procedure is still going on, we have lack of space because he's holding property captive. My mother is very stressed and I have to handle her most of the time because I'm staying with her. She cries all the time, thinks about it all the time because its like later he can just betray her and say he doesn't want to give her her share.

So, basically, he came to get her to sign papers for HIS share and I just asked him a few questions because my mom told me to come read the papers, etc. Originally i told her i didn't want to get involved and asked her to ask my mean manipulative sister to do this stuff. But then later she asked me again and i said yes.

I asked my uncle VERY simple questions about the paperwork, something regarding the terminology and how I was trying to understand the legal papers and he totally flipped out on me, then we tried to calm him down. Yes, i have been known to get angry before but most of the time its when I'm provoked but the most i do is shout. And also then, the yelling only follows after many attempts of calmly trying to assert my boundries like "i dont want to talk about this right now" "you're hurting me, etc...". I can't even walk away, if i walk away they all follow me and say i'm throwing tantrums. So, anything i do, whether its calmly assert, yell, or leave the room, I have to be attacked.

Today, I didn't do any of that. I was very calm and detached so I could talk more clearly and think more clearly. I've also been the scapegoat of the family always. In the middle of the conversation my uncle yelled at me and said YOU SHUT UP!

I didn't like that. SO i told him firmly that I didn't appreciate that and please don't tell me to shut up. I don't like it.

My question is, Was I too overly assertive here? Should I just have said something else or been quiet? Am i coming off as too strong?

After I said this to him, he said you leave this room, go to your room, after which my sister, acting like she's the queen of the family said "Sam leave the room" my mom followed her "sam, leave the room". I'm 27 years old. I didn't ask to be a part of this. I wasn't yelling or shouting, I was just communicating, I wasn't blaming anyone for anything, I wasn't doing anything accusatory. So why am i being told to leave the room and why am i asked first to help then leave the room?? Instead of attcking me why isn't the other who's being aggressive being attacked??

My sister acts like such a queen and she's on her high horse but she doesn't know originally my mom asked me first because she felt I could read the documents and logically discuss but my sister thinks she's more diplomatic and smarter than me and has this air of hierarchy over me with which she walks and behaves... and tells me "sam, you go to your room.' WTF.

Am I being childish by feeling disrespected by all this? Am i being aggressive? Would anyone else in my situation feel insulted as well?

I would appreciate all input, I'm trying to be a more calm and collected person in the midst of chaos and conflicts. Before, I used to let my emotions overtake me (especially when my buttons were pushed), so I'm trying to change that. Usually I'm very chill until someone really provokes me. Thanks!

[Distressed2010]

oh. and did i mention they were also cutting me off whenever I'd open my mouth? Whats the point of having me sit there then?

[Perna]

The way I do it for myself, assertive is when it is about me, only; aggressive is when I am talking/working on other people's stuff.

Your mother needs to be assertive and tell your uncle to respect what you have to say with regards to her and his business (or, you don't bother with the whole thing, your initial, wise, self-preservation thought :-)

The only way you can be assertive in this case, I believe, is, when cut off, to announce you no longer wish to take part in the transaction in any way and then to get up and leave. One can only speak for one's self, not for anyone else, even though your mother "privately" asked you to. When one demands "rights" (to be listened to) when the situation is not about one''s self, directly, then one is overstepping one's personal bounds and that's "aggression" by definition almost.

Because it is legally about your mother and her brother (or is it brother-in-law?) the only way you can make it about you is if your mother says it is about you and your uncle agrees. Your mother's desire to stay "safe" and have you do her difficult business does not make it your business.

[Distressed2010]

Thanks Perna. I understand what you're saying. The thought that came to my mind at that time was that since my mom asked me to help, she sort of gave me her Power of Attorney to "speak" for her.
My mom does have trouble asserting herself. Last time she signed the papers under pressure from him, and suffered from massive stress and still does till today because of that. She kept telling herself she shouldn't have done it.

I didn't want her to get stressed out AGAIN. Eventhough its her matter, when she stresses and comes to me, I get stressed because there's not much i can do, also if she talks to me and i give her suggestions, she flips out and gets angry at me I get stressed more.

another thing, I am confused about boundries. Isn't it that if someone is rude to you, you should speak up? Or perhaps I was the one being "rude" first since its his business? But then my mom asked me to help so wouldn't I be as involved as part of it?

I guess my question is more like WHEN do i set boundries? and HOW do i set them without looking aggressive?

He told me to shut up when I didn't even say anything. I was trying to speak for my mom and tell him that she feels very stressed and is uncomfortable doing this. and thats when he said You shut up.

[Distressed2010]

Forgot to mention, anytime I walk away from a discussion or say I'm leaving. everyone, and i mean EVERYONE follows me into the room accusing me of an ATTITUDE PROBLEM.

I don't walk away to manipulate, I walk away to get some peace and clarity in my head from all the chaos.

[Elana05]

I'm sorry Distressed2010, but it sounds like you are the only sane one. No, it's not being aggressive if you are speaking carefully in a regular speaking tone -- asking basic direct questions in order to understand the situation. I am sorry to hear about what your mom has had to endure. It sounds like a difficult situation where she is being taken advantage of. I know I am often mentioning literature, but I have found this book quite helpful:
http://www.amazon.com/Dance-Anger-Ch.../dp/006091565X
Sending good wishes your way... for a calmer, saner and more understanding environment. By all means, stay assertive, be true to yourself.

Elana

[embracinglife]

Distressed, I agree with Elana that it sounds like you are the only sane one. I think that you did a good job with setting a boundary when your Uncle told you to SHUT UP and you calmly told him that you didn't appreciate him saying that to you. That is a good way to take care of yourself, by saying that to someone who is verbally attacking you.

Your family does sound quite dysfunctional. That doesn't seem like appropriate problem solving to send you --a capable adult to their room. That sounds strange. Especially after your mom asked you for your support. I think if you were asked to read the papers by your mom then you have the right to ask questions about the terminology that he uses.

I'm sorry the situation ended as it did, but I think you did a good job handling yourself. Maybe your mom should look into getting a lawyer.

[madisgram]

distressed, sounds like you attempted to set boundaries again in this situation. imho, my thoughts-your family ropes you in all the time. it makes you the fall guy. scapegoat most or all times. due to the extreme disfunction that manifests itself when you do try to help or asked for your opinion, the best suggestion i can give is stay out of it period. it'll frustrate them cause there's a "game" going on in your family, but you can do this. after reading your threads before, distressed, your responding at all is a no win situation. if they don't respect the boundaries you set, get in the car and leave. u can just say oh i have to do so and so, be back in an hour, etc. or say nothing at all. just take your car keys and exit. you may have to do this often but it takes you out of the "arena". obviously your healthy attempts to go into another room in the house doesn't work. regardless of their mud slinging cause you're leaving the house, just do it. i so wish you could move and gain some serenity in your life. right now you're living in a hornet's nest. could you move?

[Perna]

When my stepmother and I would have problems, when I was very young, six or seven, when it got too much for her she would leave in the evening and go for a walk around the neighborhood. . . rather than kill me

Maybe when you get roped in to helping in family situations where you don't have much actual authority and it doesn't go well for you, you could deliberately get dramatic (ruins their criticisms if you do it on purpose), throw your hands up in the air and announce, "I give up!" and walk out of the house. Sometimes my husband will ask me to do something or my advice and I'll do/give it and then he'll start questioning it and I'll "give up" like that.

You are not responsible for what others do or how they perceive you; that's their problem. If you don't want to leave the house, try a bathroom and close the door in their face? Keep centered on how you feel and you can't go wrong because that is all you have to go on, whether you feel like you are helping, being heard, making a difference. If you are not feeling "loved" then don't play! It's not your battle, no matter how much you would like to help your mother.

Boundaries are individual affairs and tools rather than "set"/lines drawn in the sand or a barbed wire fence box around us. One tries to gauge the other's intents and reasonings and what can be "gained" by reminding the other person of who you feel yourself to be.

It does not sound like your uncle has ever "seen" you as a person so he's probably not going to hear you either. It sounds like he treated you as he would treat his own child, and you are a niece, a "child" in his eyes. It was great that you told him you did not appreciate his saying "shut up" to you, speaking to you in that way but you were not able to follow it through with any "action".

Boundaries are two-fold, the person states the boundary and gives a consequence if it is crossed again in the same or close/similar spot. Instead, you "shut up" like you were told to? You needed to assert your power over yourself/actions/voice by saying something like, "Do not speak to me like that again or I will leave". In this case, it doesn't sound like it would not make a very big difference, because your uncle did not want you there in the first place and the "power" was uneven because you were going up against an older generation. The only way I can see that you could probably help is if your mother were stronger asserting her rights and you were a male, lawyer nephew, instead of a niece. In this instance, you have no "authority" or anything other than an opinion to offer and your uncle doesn't care and doesn't have to care; you can't make another person care and, if you think about it from his perspective/family history, how can he suddenly listen to a niece? The family has never interacted that way to teach him how useful and right and thoughtful your opinion is and "worth" listening to?

I'm reminded of when I went camping in New Hampshire one summer and the campground we were at was having problems with a bear and they set a bear trap in the campsite across from ours. Another camper was telling us the story of his family's interactions with the bear a few nights earlier; they were sitting around the dinner table and his 4 year old son came and told him, "Daddy, there's a bear behind the car". He immediately thought, yeah, yeah, sure there is, and disregarded his son. His son told him again and he told his son to shush but his son kept insisting there was a bear so he got up and went to look and, sure enough, he turns the "corner" around the other side of the car and here's a female bear coming at him.

It was a funny story for adults to tell each other; how likely is there actually to be a bear in a public campground? How active are 4-year old imaginations and how inclined are one's young children to say funny/bizarre things? Your uncle has never "seen" you as an adult, you're a 4 year old and he's a bear; your mother has to do her own work or get a park ranger (lawyer) to do it for her?

[Distressed2010]

Originally Posted by madisgram

distressed, sounds like you attempted to set boundaries again in this situation. imho, my thoughts-your family ropes you in all the time. it makes you the fall guy. scapegoat most or all times. due to the extreme disfunction that manifests itself when you do try to help or asked for your opinion, the best suggestion i can give is stay out of it period. it'll frustrate them cause there's a "game" going on in your family, but you can do this. after reading your threads before, distressed, your responding at all is a no win situation. if they don't respect the boundaries you set, get in the car and leave. u can just say oh i have to do so and so, be back in an hour, etc. or say nothing at all. just take your car keys and exit. you may have to do this often but it takes you out of the "arena". obviously your healthy attempts to go into another room in the house doesn't work. regardless of their mud slinging cause you're leaving the house, just do it. i so wish you could move and gain some serenity in your life. right now you're living in a hornet's nest. could you move?

Hi madisgram,

Thanks for the detailed explanation. That is what I was thinking as well, staying out of situations completely now. Its just that eventhough I'm in this dysfunctional mess, I do care lots about my mom and dad, eventhough my dads been very controlling and abusive all throughout and my mom very critical and wanting me to change to what she wants of me (which would be a whole character change on my part).

Like yesterday, I told her I find her brother manipulative. And her response was "you should be ashamed of yourself, he helps you SO MUCH!". Yes, he does. I agree. But he's different behind my mom's back. Also, there are many reasons people help, one they care about you, two they want to manipulate you, three they want to look good/attention. Whatever he does do, I have to beg literally 30 times to get it done. I may be sounding unthankful, I'm not. Its just that by the time the thing gets done, I'm frustrated like crazy chasing him. But I also don't have anyone else to help me so I deal with it.

So, when I see her stressed, I get stressed because I want her to be happy. Same with my dad. But after trying so hard repeatedly, I'm thinking I should stay out of things. Sometimes I tell her I don't want to discuss some of her problems (like over-complaining over minute things), and she flips out on that and gets offended. But i'm gonna try staying detached now.


Anyhoo,

I will try the "leave the house" technique whenever I can (like at non-night hours). thankyou!!

smiles and hugs!!

[Distressed2010]

Originally Posted by Perna

When my stepmother and I would have problems, when I was very young, six or seven, when it got too much for her she would leave in the evening and go for a walk around the neighborhood. . . rather than kill me

Maybe when you get roped in to helping in family situations where you don't have much actual authority and it doesn't go well for you, you could deliberately get dramatic (ruins their criticisms if you do it on purpose), throw your hands up in the air and announce, "I give up!" and walk out of the house. Sometimes my husband will ask me to do something or my advice and I'll do/give it and then he'll start questioning it and I'll "give up" like that.

You are not responsible for what others do or how they perceive you; that's their problem. If you don't want to leave the house, try a bathroom and close the door in their face? Keep centered on how you feel and you can't go wrong because that is all you have to go on, whether you feel like you are helping, being heard, making a difference. If you are not feeling "loved" then don't play! It's not your battle, no matter how much you would like to help your mother.

Boundaries are individual affairs and tools rather than "set"/lines drawn in the sand or a barbed wire fence box around us. One tries to gauge the other's intents and reasonings and what can be "gained" by reminding the other person of who you feel yourself to be.

It does not sound like your uncle has ever "seen" you as a person so he's probably not going to hear you either. It sounds like he treated you as he would treat his own child, and you are a niece, a "child" in his eyes. It was great that you told him you did not appreciate his saying "shut up" to you, speaking to you in that way but you were not able to follow it through with any "action".

Boundaries are two-fold, the person states the boundary and gives a consequence if it is crossed again in the same or close/similar spot. Instead, you "shut up" like you were told to? You needed to assert your power over yourself/actions/voice by saying something like, "Do not speak to me like that again or I will leave". In this case, it doesn't sound like it would not make a very big difference, because your uncle did not want you there in the first place and the "power" was uneven because you were going up against an older generation. The only way I can see that you could probably help is if your mother were stronger asserting her rights and you were a male, lawyer nephew, instead of a niece. In this instance, you have no "authority" or anything other than an opinion to offer and your uncle doesn't care and doesn't have to care; you can't make another person care and, if you think about it from his perspective/family history, how can he suddenly listen to a niece? The family has never interacted that way to teach him how useful and right and thoughtful your opinion is and "worth" listening to?

I'm reminded of when I went camping in New Hampshire one summer and the campground we were at was having problems with a bear and they set a bear trap in the campsite across from ours. Another camper was telling us the story of his family's interactions with the bear a few nights earlier; they were sitting around the dinner table and his 4 year old son came and told him, "Daddy, there's a bear behind the car". He immediately thought, yeah, yeah, sure there is, and disregarded his son. His son told him again and he told his son to shush but his son kept insisting there was a bear so he got up and went to look and, sure enough, he turns the "corner" around the other side of the car and here's a female bear coming at him.

It was a funny story for adults to tell each other; how likely is there actually to be a bear in a public campground? How active are 4-year old imaginations and how inclined are one's young children to say funny/bizarre things? Your uncle has never "seen" you as an adult, you're a 4 year old and he's a bear; your mother has to do her own work or get a park ranger (lawyer) to do it for her?

Thankyou very much for the detailed explanation Perna. This really clarifies a lot about how boundries work and strengthens some of my doubts. I think I've always been assertive but while growing up, I always asserted but never "exercised" my boundries as you mentioned. Or, no actually, i would exercise it as in i'd run to my room crying and when I did that, my sisters would say I was making it up, or I was too emotional, or I'm just too dramatic.

My mom also said that he sees me as a kid and I told her, well that's gonna have to change because I'm an adult now and I can't be treated like a kid all the time, I feel disrespected.

And yes, I agree that my mother needs to be the one on my side, standing up for me, because if/when she does, things will change. But, this is only a dream. That's not really gonna happen, especially with her brother.

She doesn't like confronting problems. She likes to not think about them so they'd go away (that's how she thinks is right). We can't get a lawyer for this because it was my grandmas dying wish, as in, its not in the will. Its verbal. But he still agrees to give our portion, but only after HIS stuff is transferred. I don't trust him anymore though. The way he's dealing with this property stuff is just too shady for me.

I had also mentioned to him that it was his mom's dying wish, my mother's already 60, he's been holding our property captive for 18 years now. His response was "so what, i don't have to give it its not in the will". Yes, i agree. I suppose I was looking at it from how I would operate. If its someone i care about and its their dying wish, I'd definitely honor it right away and give it away without any friction.

My mom fears that if she stands up, her relationship with him will suffer and he's the only "close" relative she has outside of immediate family. I think she knows he's not being fair but then she doesn't want to confront that and still wants to see him as "all good".