I need your input, please!

Ok Dottie - I don't know your situation. I was just offering an option for you to consider.

Hmmmm..right!

Dottie, I don't think the younger generation "gets it."

I've also made up my mind about this whole thing. May I refer all of you to my post in General called "Something Else I've Learned"!

HOWEVER!!! My coming to this conclusion DOES NOT override Family Values, Family Ties and Responsibilities to FAMILY.

Ouch. Ok. I'm backing out now...

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LMo said:
Ouch. Ok. I'm backing out now...

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You gave input that's good and nothing to be sorry for.

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SeptemberMorn said:
Dottie, I don't think the younger generation "gets it."

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I get it.

{{{{{{{{{{{{LMo}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} Nothing to be sorry for. We're from two different generations and we see some things differently.

You know I love and respect you, too. It's a two way street, Hun.

Copy of post in General:

A couple of hours ago, I sent David a copy of my original post. Here is his reply:

Sounds good. We're on for 4pm Christmas day then. Just so you know, it's the part of the day I enjoy most because all of the obligations are over and I can relax and have fun. See you then.

-----------------------------------------------------------

David Holifield, Principal
interFUEL Interactive Design & Technology

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Just so you know, it's the part of the day I enjoy most because all of the obligations are over and I can relax and have fun.

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When David was about 5 yrs old, my ex-husband, his father, asked him why he always kissed me good-night last. David's response; "I save the best for last." I HAD NO CLUE it still held true!!

That post reminded me of the time , shortly after my husband's death...my son came over to me when he saw that I was crying...he put his hand upon my shoulder and said ''Mom, don't worry..I'll take care of you." Now..I don't think I am ever in his stream of consciousness.

TGC

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LMo said:
Yeah, Tomi as I re-read this whole thread, it's reminding me a lot of my situation with my parents. I'm doing to them what David is doing to you. I told them that I wasn't flying out for either holiday this year, but that we could pick a different weekend and I'd come out then (I don't want to fly on holidays anymore). I'm sure they're feeling the same way you do. Part of the reason I dread the conversations now is because I feel PRESSURED. Like it's never enough with them. I have to worry about their feelings so much that I either live with tons of guilt or else flush my own feelings down the drain. They don't like my husband so they are snippy and rude to him, yet they still expect -- not want -- EXPECT us to bow to them for each holiday because of the tradition of spending it one's elders. I've spent hundreds at our T's trying to reconcile what we should do. If we go, we're miserable because we get a guilt trip for not going more often, and don't enjoy ourselves because a) we were pressured into going, and b) my parents' feelings toward my husband are thinly disguised. After all of the pressure, by the time we actually get there, there is resentment on all sides.

Could that be what's going on with David? You said that you're tenacious -- maybe that translates into 'pressuring' for him.

Would you be more likely to go cheerfully to a relatives' house (forget for a moment that he's your son) if you were pressured, or just invited?

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LMO, do you feel like you and your husband are being Emotionally Blackmailed? By your parents? You have the telltale signs.

The healthier I get the clearer my vision.

LMo, maybe they were feeling pressured. All of us stubborn people know how that feels. Makes us want to rebel! I was rebelling against the later hour, David was rebelling against whatever pressure I was putting on him, and you feel pressure from your parents. Hey... I saw the light and am ready to accept whatever comes my way... to a point. Have you explained to your parents about not wanting to fly on holidays? Hopefully, they will eventually understand. For me, it would take me a few years to get used to it.

If I was in your position and ... hell, I was! LOL When I was married to my first husband, my mom made no bones about hating him. I had to remind her that whatever she did to him, she did to me. When I inherited my middle son, his birthday was the day right before hers. She claimed that she always forgot when it was. Yeah, right! The last year she tried this, she wasn't allowed to give the rest of my kids anything for their birthday, either.

Tell your parents how it's going to be and refuse any guilt they throw your way. Tell them what David told me once "I don't accept the guilt you're trying to lay on me." Then make up your mind to not accept it. Bust them on it when they try. I know you well enough to know that you can carry it off just as easily as I can!

Ah, Erin! You're "ageless," an old soul, at least 62!! LOL IDK, you've always "gotten" me. I owe you a debt of gratitude bigger than I can ever repay!

Dottie, I have a similar situation with my first born. I'll be PMing you the next few days, ok? Haven't meant to ignore you. Just having this particular problem AND no meds has made it all more intense and difficult to deal with. Hope you understand.

Not meaning to offend but isn't the Reason for the Season Christ

Umm... the religious aspect of the Day wasn't/isn't what was in question. I'm sorry you missed the outcome of all this turmoil.

It's been awhile since I've lent my "input" but I adore pumpkin cheesecake.....just combine the two recipes or get one of those cheesecake mixes and blend in pumpkin and pumpkin pie spices...it's delicious....love ya....grace

{{{{{{{{{Mickey D!!!!!!}}}}}}}}}}}} I've missed you, Woman!!! Don't be a stranger, eh?

Recipe sounds good but I prefer my cheesecake New York style and PURE!! The others WILL enjoy the mix, though!

I've finally cooled off enough to reply to this.

Look, MOST people WANT to have good, warm, loving relationship with their parents. My generation is not a bunch of selfish, unfeeling, uncaring, ungrateful snobs. Many of my friends have wonderful relationships with their parents and can't WAIT until the holiday season rolls around so that they can spend time with their entire family.

I really have a hard time with stereotyping it as a generational problem. Look back at your own lives -- tell me that there weren't some relatives in your life that were extremely difficult, pushy, demeaning, hurtful. Did you spend time with them? Yes, because they were famiy. Did you WANT to? No, probably not, and you didn't look forward to it, and you were watching the clock the entire time, waiting for the visit to be over. Or, if they were hurtful enough to you, maybe you said "you know what? I'm tired of being so hurt so repeatedly" and decided to reduce contact with them out of self-protection.

I "GET IT". My T, who is in her 60's, has repeatedly said that she wouldn't blame me one bit if I never spoke with my parents again. My dad, due to his narcissim or whatever, says very, very damaging things to me. If I were any weaker of a person, my self-esteem would be nonexistent by now. THE reason I continue to spend time with him is BECAUSE I "get it". I resent the implications that I don't understand "family values" and "family ties". I know he's not going to be around forever, and that I should appreciate this perishable tie to my past and my ancestry. Yes, I "get it".

However, in my case, I have to choose between getting DREADFULLY HURT and respecting family ties. So, I compromise and get hurt and spend time with my parents. Then I spend thousands of dollars every year on therapy. Maybe that's the situation your kids are in? Maybe it's not that they are selfish and ungrateful brats -- maybe they get their feelings hurt when they are around you?

I'm upset because here is an opportunity to learn about how your kids' generation REALLY thinks, so that you can make the most of what is available in your relationship with them. You responded by implying that your kids are selfish and ungrateful, and then cried about how they don't want to be around you. You similarly alienated me. If we were to draw a pattern out of this, I'd say that you will continue to get your feelings hurt each holiday, because you're not doing a whole lot to figure out what WILL work with your kids. I know that you feel like you're making some compromises, but honestly, when I read the first few posts in this thread, I got a big sense of "it's got to be MY way or else I'm going to get upset, loudly".

Yes, it IS a two-way street, Sept. That's what I was trying to say to you earlier, and somehow it got deflected.

Off base, LMO. Please go back and read my posts. I never alluded that any of my children were selfish or ungrateful. Please quote something that I said..and I will try and clarify this. I don't see any reason for hostility as a result of Sept. or my posts. You do not know my situation. It would be too hard and lengthy for me to go on about why 2 of my 4 children act as if I am not on the planet. I think soon I may post a letter my one daughter, K, sent me on my birthday in Oct. It is full of wonderful kudos. I don't demand anything from my children but respect. Take care

To answer a few other questions on here:

Sara - of course I'm being emotionally blackmailed. Thanks for checking in with me, though. The dilemma is what to do about it. With my T's help, I feel like I came a long way with regard to setting some boundaries (like not flying on holidays), but what that seems to have translated in this thread to is that I don't respect my family.

Tomi - the reason I am not flying on holidays anymore is because I am absolutely terrified to fly. I know, I know... it seems weird since I travel almost nonstop, but what you might not know is that I pop Tylenol PM like it's candy (previously Ativan) just to get myself on the plane. That's during a non-holiday flight. There are several other reasons, but it's too much to get into right now.

IMO I don't see why we can't allow our kids and the younger generation the growth that we have, yes we (the older generation) want it the way it used to be , but if it stays that way our kids can't grow as we did.
It's time for them to start there own traditions it doesn't mean they don't love us
Hope this makes sense

OK Dottie - I'm sorry you are taking my post as being hostile instead of seeing the fact that I am hurt. I'll edit my post and remove the reference to you.

It's unfortunate, indeed, that you just don't get it. And I will not belabor this further. Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy and bright New Year

Dear God in Heaven! What is going on here?

We all have different situations with our families and I agree with LMo that "getting it" can mean spending time with family because that is who they are. I, for one, spent time around a mother that made me a wreck but my children loved her and she loved them and I made compromises for it. I, too, spent $$$$ dealing with it. I dealt.

What is supportive about lecturing and writing people off because they don't agree with you? I don't advocate being anyone's doormat, but perhaps from someone's else's perspective..they might think they are my windshield. And I would try to get to the bottom of it and find out what really was wrong..........

- thanks Pat - I am really upset about this whole thing