[Ygrec23]

I suppose that the relationships forum is as good a place as any to talk about families, and I'd like to talk a little about the public and private faces of my family. I don't recall reading a post about this before, but I could only too easily be wrong. Anyway, I'm itching to do this so, even if someone else has done it, I'll do it too.

Like many families, ours had the Life Magazine cover photo version and then the real version, locked in the basement. There were six of us, two parents and four kids. Our on-stage presentation was flawless, except for brother Pete, and we could just smile over him and pretend he wasn't there. Pretending was, of course, the name of the game. So there we were in a row, smiling, laughing, singing in chorus, as coordinated and in-step as the Rockettes. And of course, we now all know it was all a lie.

It was a lie and it wasn't a lie. It wasn't a lie because every person there did really WANT it to be true, would have PREFERRED it to be true. And didn't even realize that it WASN'T true. Except Peter. And even he didn't realize anything except that SOMETHING WAS WRONG. And the show went on the road, and played the Palace, and made movies (home movies), And then slowly disintegrated as people grew and moved away or died.

The real family wasn't a family. It was six entirely isolated individuals locked into separate mortuary caskets in which each suffered the pangs of hell. By themselves. THAT family will last until the last person takes his last breath. Or escapes via successful therapy or analysis. Which, as you're fully aware, is tough and comes with no guarantees.

I call them the Hitler-Stalin Family because German and Russian societies under those evil monsters were forced to put on an act displaying their complete satisfaction even while they were frightened out of their wits by the terrors enforced from above. And that's what our family did, except that they didn't know they were frightened and they didn't know what they were frightened of.

Some of you, the older ones, will remember flashing neon lights and photos that came with negatives. For you younger folks, we used to have neon signs on businesses that flashed on and off, on and off, all day and all night. For you folks who only know digital photography, old-fashioned film photography, after being developed, came back with both prints and negatives of each shot. Two different images of the same thing.

The trick about being a Hitler-Stalin family was to be able to focus on one image and one image only (the lighted part of the flashing neon two-step, the positive image rather than the negative photo). And entirely forget the other one. You could do it if you tried. And we did. Oh yes we did. You probably did it too. Will there ever come a day that we don't?

[Leed]

You just described MY home life. LOL Everything looked hunky-dory on the outside, but inside it was a horror movie.

It took lots of therapy for me to get thru this. Then finally one day I realized that my parents gave ME what THEY were given. They couldn't give me something that they didn't have. That realization helped me alot. Plus I vowed to NEVER put my own family thru that.

There were 4 kids on our family too -- and ALL of us suffer from depression. Medication has worked wonders for me -- and of course therapy didn't hurt.

I think there are more families than we think who are the "Hitler-Stalin" types. In our society, we just don't talk about the skeletons in our closet. For some reason, we bear this alone -- which is foolish.

Best of luck & God bless. I hope you're doing well. Hugs, Lee

[Confusedinomicon]

I'm younger, but I like to think my family is really close and there isn't a difference between our home life and outside life. I don't feel terribly isolated from any member of my family and I actually love seeing my sibling. (We don't go to the same college)

My parents didn't have a lot, but they built the family on a foundation of love. It was unfortunate that I ended up inheriting a MI from my dad, but my parents have tried to learn as much as they could.

Although it wasn't like this during my teenage years, but then I went through the "no on understands me" phase. I agree though, I think there are more families who are the "Hitler-Stalin" type. I think it has to do with the individual mindset of the society. Community isn't fostered enough. I wouldn't trade my family for anything. My boyfriend even had to adjust to my family because he thought we were a little too loving. XD

[Perna]

Don't forget that you are only describing this by looking back in time from now. It did not feel entirely like that then, it just feels like it felt like that. . .from looking back on it.

Turn around. Look around. It's cheap to say we "should have done. . ." by looking back. We did what we did, we learned what we did, we gave and received what we did, related as we did -- operative word, "did". We could not do anything other than what we did do (or we would have done it some places). Lamenting what we did not know in the past doesn't "help" us in anyway now? It is easier though, than trying to "fix" things now. I have 55-60 years of doing/not doing things in a certain way and I learned, in my 40's, how very difficult that is to "fix".

At the age of 40, I was taking an accounting final exam and came upon a problem with something just beyond my remembering or knowledge/ability to figure out. I had the sudden thought/genuine feeling, "I wish I had studied more". I cannot tell you what that genuine feeling did to me, the knowledge that my step mother didn't matter/care if I studied, that my teacher did not care if I studied, that my fellow students, bosses, no one else in the world cared if I studied; I wanted to solve this problem and that was all that mattered; no one else could make me want that.

I had been through over 16 years of schooling and never gotten an "A" other than one high school quarter in "typing" and another in "badminton"/gym, because I did not care. It wasn't a "fault", I wasn't "bad" for getting C's, a few B's and a few D's, one F (international economics; Bernanke I'm not :-) So, what happened?

I got a B in that course, missed an A by 9 points out of something like 362 and instantly knew in my heart that it could have been different if I had not skipped two classes and thus not gotten credit for my homework. The next year my girlfriend and I took the next semester of accounting and my work began. The struggle to make myself complete homework! I remember one of those sessions vividly where the struggle almost made me cry it was so intense. It all came down to me making myself aware of what I wanted for myself. No one else could do it for me, no one else could "care" if I did my homework. The jig was up thinking I was doing it because my stepmother or teacher demanded that I do it. Who did I want to become at the age of 41, a woman who finished what she started, the best she could, or a quitter with excuses why I could not finish, could not attempt to do what I wanted to do?

The battle got worse; when I took courses by myself as an adult, I was big on not taking the final exam. I had an A in one difficult course and skipped the final, got an "incomplete". I started going to finals but still did not study for them, just "faked" it (you can lead a horse to water but can't make her drink ;-) It took me 4-5 courses before I could get myself to work consistently from the beginning to the end of the course. But, that hard work carried over to the rest of my life too, just like therapy can.

Two years ago I wrote a 50,000 word novel as part of the National Novel Writing Month (takes place every November) project; you have to write a novel (or at least 50,000 words of it) starting November 1 and finish November 30. http://mysharingspaceonline.com/story.pdf The novel is about "me", who I was at 26 and who I would have liked to have been; I "rewrote" my literal history so it took advantage of the 30+ years I'd lived beyond that. At 26 I did not know what I wanted, was wholly lost/clueless and thought it was all my fault or my stepmother's, or dead mother's, somebody's "fault". My present life was ruined by my past.

I know now that none of that holds water for me; I was carrying around leaky buckets and complaining that my buckets were leaky. That was very true but didn't "do" anything for me. Wanting buckets that didn't leak and not doing anything to procure them didn't do anything for me either. Wailing that I didn't know what to do to get or fix leaky buckets didn't do anything; berating those that gave me the leaky buckets didn't do anything; refusing to carry the leaky buckets didn't do anything; anything that did not address the problem, did not try to make the buckets better for my uses, did not do anything.

I was in therapy for about 25 years all together, half my life at the time. I'm still debating my own nature/nurture thing; did the therapy help or would I have changed as well with just age/experience? I chose the therapy. This is my life. The therapy liners for my buckets worked just fine until I could make new ones for myself.

[pachyderm]

Should we have Purple Heart and other medals for people wounded in the Domestic Wars?

[Perna]

Originally Posted by pachyderm

Should we have Purple Heart and other medals for people wounded in the Domestic Wars?

Nah, everybody'd have one so they'd become meaningless. I remember my high school did away with the honor society because too many students were in it! Going to the #1 public high school in the country when you're a B/C student; I was in the bottom third of my class when I graduated!

[Ygrec23]

Originally Posted by pachyderm

Should we have Purple Heart and other medals for people wounded in the Domestic Wars?

Why? ............

[alwaysrejoice]

I'm just learning at 33 that my family was similar to this. When we were out in public it was like the two parents and four little angels. People would even say how good we all were. My parents would be so proud of it. In reality, we were to SCARED to do anything wrong. We had our butts beat regularly for every minute mishap. I was the youngest and I'm told the two oldest had it a lot worse than the two youngest. We were all good students in high school and all. On the inside we didnt have eachother to turn to at all. I don't know why but we all suffered in silence. I started breaking the silence at around 16. I pointed out how things just aren't right in the family and I hated my life. (I was always depressed and they knew it.) I was bad. I would sneak out, skip school, steal money, etc. So as my "punishment" I was taken to a psychiatrist. I went to that doc and and didnt say much at all to him. I was put on meds and rarely took them, when I did I never had a good reaction. Anyway, my family kinda stinks and I'm just finding this out. My husbands family is very different. They hug and kiss and say I love you to eachother. That is enough to throw me off right there. Since I have been in the hopsital and getting ECT and all that my mother in law has been more supportive than my own mother. I needed a ride to get ECT and my parents told me they cant they are going out of state to go GAMBLING! I didn't realize that that was ignorant until my husband pointed it out. They want to say in the "perfect" world where they have perfect little kids....

[UCLAFan]

can relate my family members put on a fake act in public but are evil in private.

[di meliora]

Will there ever come a day that we don't?

Your choice.

[Ygrec23]

Originally Posted by Elan Vital

Your choice.

Very true. I have. Take care!

[Open Eyes]

Ignorance is ignorance.
If we truely look at family life throughout history it has been far from perfect in many cultures. And there were times when families killed other family members for power, interbred for power, so many things that today we can look back on and think, Oh my God how bad these people were. But they were ignorant, no science about the human being, what happens in the human brain and how a human brain just learns to accept certain behaviors and customs in various societies.

Look at the various issues or disorders we see in the various forums, for as much as we know there is still so much we have yet to learn. We are only beginning to understand what is necessary to raise a healthy human being.

If we are not loved, how are we to know love outside the desire to reproduce?
If we are not taught respect, how are we supposed to respect others, even ourselves?
If we are not treated as worthy human beings, how are we supposed to feel worthy?
If we are born with disabilities we are not truely taught how to overcome and survive, we are often punished and misunderstood.

We are what we know, a parent is only what a parent knows unless that parent is educated and learns how to properly raise a child, run a respectful house hold and have a nurturing relationship with a mate truely honoring the vows taken that begins a relationship that forms a family.

Yes each of us can look back, now knowing what is known today, with disappointment and a sense of loss. And we can see behind that person who was our parent and not only what they were taught but their own personal limitations. We are at the mercy of what we know, unless we continue to learn, speak out and discover the best ways to assure each child the right upbringing to become the best that child can become. We are still ignorant, still allowing people to continue to have children who are truely uneducated as to how to truely raise a child. All one has to do is watch the Supernanny to see the disfunction in so many families and how there is so much chaos and ignorance, almost like children raising children as many adults do not know how to function as true adults.

Ok, so we just went through and are still going trough a time where if is doesn't work, end a relationship, cheat, fight, and give up, do not learn to grow together.

What your siting here Ygrec is ignorance. We see what is expected appearance wise in public view but many are totally clueless of what a real quality family is. Last time we had any idea is Leave it to Beaver, and well there is Rosanne and her comical family, at least there we could see that there is no real perfection. Who really knows what function is, we are still ignorant, are there any real courses in schools educating about healthy family atmospheres? NO.

Open Eyes

[Ygrec23]

Well, Open Eyes, I agree with a lot of what you're saying. Family life is a tough problem for a lot of us. And always has been. I don't believe there's any nationality or ethnic group that has the absolute answer. Yet. I do have hopes for the future, though. As I do for other aspects of psychology and mutual understanding.

My poor parents, whom I love, were very intelligent, educated, hardworking people. They believed, sincerely, in their hearts, that they were good parents and doing the right thing by their children. They would have been horrified and terribly hurt if someone in authority had told them it wasn't so. That what they were doing to their children would cause those children lifelong pain.

We do not ask to be born. And to get married and have a family is almost as much a no-brainer as being born. I pretty much know what my parents' problems were, each individually, and their situation was tragic, as is that of all too many people. They would have done better not to have any children, but there was no way for them to know that.

They were good people who tried their best. Sincerely. And I still love them, respect them, and admire them, particularly after having obtained a grasp of how difficult and sad life really is. One must be ready at all times to forgive almost anything. I think. And I certainly forgive my parents. Given their constraints I myself couldn't ever have done better than they did. And they did so much. They really did.

Life is hard. If you can't deal with that you can't deal with anything. This is not a Hollywood movie. It's so far from a Hollywood movie that all too many of us are totally disoriented when we arrive at adulthood after a childhood and adolescence of television, computer games and movies. It's a shame that our early years now teach us so little, and that was true even in my time, all those many years ago. Take care!

[Open Eyes]

Yes, Ygrec, what your saying is so very true. Parents are mostly not aware of how they can damage their children, this has been the case for many generations. It is very sad and when people lament over their childhood issues and their parents I do encourage them to truely look behind that parent and try their best to understand that parents history and what they knew and experienced before they became a parent. That way we can begin to see that our past issues are not always because we were unworthy, it was more that our parents truely didn't know, or were abused themselves, or even had disorders or issues that they truely did not know about.

Now as we are gaining more information and clearly know about child abuse and how wrong it is, it is time to educate parents on how to understand childhood developement and how best to guide their children and what they can watch for that may be presenting their children with possible diorders that can be helped. Some parents are trying, but we truely need more eduaction. It is not fair to just expect our schools to do it all, it must be there for the child at home as well.

Open Eyes

[Ygrec23]

Wow, Open Eyes, I couldn't agree MORE. Back in the very old days, my parents were really educated and really intelligent. I mean no doubt at all. To this very day I can't understand how such intelligent and educated people could NOT understand (or even ever TRY to understand) their children. It rather flabbergasts me. They were really, really SMART people. They had TONS of friends. They both had lots of advanced degrees from the country's absolute BEST universities. And they had no more understanding of their four children than they had of a GOLDFISH IN A BOWL. They would have had MORE understanding of a cat or dog!

Of course, I've talked this over and over and over with T, because it's so outlandish to me. So incomprehensible. And she says they just weren't insightful people. They totally resisted any insight into themselves and into anyone else. Their literally HUNDREDS of friends and students were apparently people who could put up with their superficiality. I can't tell you how much of a fraud it looked like to ALL their many children. I would very, VERY much doubt that this kind of situation could occur now. People today are really very much more sophisticated, I think. If you just read the good newspapers and magazines today you'd know better than my parents did.

But there's no question at all, to me, that today we understand that schools can't do it all, that the major part of the responsibility rests on the parents, like it or not. Take care!

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

Yes, Ygrec, what your saying is so very true. Parents are mostly not aware of how they can damage their children, this has been the case for many generations. It is very sad and when people lament over their childhood issues and their parents I do encourage them to truely look behind that parent and try their best to understand that parents history and what they knew and experienced before they became a parent. That way we can begin to see that our past issues are not always because we were unworthy, it was more that our parents truely didn't know, or were abused themselves, or even had disorders or issues that they truely did not know about.

Now as we are gaining more information and clearly know about child abuse and how wrong it is, it is time to educate parents on how to understand childhood developement and how best to guide their children and what they can watch for that may be presenting their children with possible diorders that can be helped. Some parents are trying, but we truely need more eduaction. It is not fair to just expect our schools to do it all, it must be there for the child at home as well.

Open Eyes

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by Ygrec23

People today are really very much more sophisticated, I think.

That explains this year's crew wanting to be president...

[Open Eyes]

Oh pachyderm, you will get in trouble. However, just about all politicians are just there for the inside trading tips. I love how they snuck in a way that permits them to do so while everyone else can't. Notice none of them bash each other for that, except one that brought it to light on 60 minutes. Sophistication is more about more sophisticatively deceptive. Are any of those families real? Hmm I wonder.
Open Eyes

[Ygrec23]

I ran across the article below, which is very relevant to this thread. It describes what we've been talking about here as "The Game of Happy Family," and has much more to say about self-deception of all kinds.

Insights into Self-Deception by Daniel Goleman

http://www.nytimes.com/1985/05/12/ma...p=1&sq=&st=nyt