[nicoles]

I apologize for the length of this post. The last paragraph is the most important so feel free to skip to that. The paragraphs before are a very brief history of what I have been dealing with.

At the end of August 2012 my mother told me my dad and her were separating, which I sensed happening for a while. A week after this terrible news, my parents told my brother (21), sister (14), and I (24) that my dad was going to rehab across the country for a month and a half. We knew it was partially for depression and slight drug abuse, and mostly for their marriage. It was during this time that she seemingly became a new person. She told us our father was gay (which he definitely is not) and started going on dates when my dad was away and told me that they both would start seeing other people. My dad had already bought her a new house on the beach to allow her space. At first when he returned home he seemed happier and healthier, but it changed once he saw her 'new' personality.

They finalized the divorce this January, which was very difficult for my brother, sister, and me since our parents kept telling us it was going to work out. Since then, my mother has seen 2 guys on and off. Anytime I would see her, which was almost every day, she would openly talk about the new guy, what my dad to her, and stopped asking how we were doing. She started going out to bars almost every night and developed a younger crowd of friends. She decided to invite one of the new boyfriend and his kids to Easter dinner even after I expressed that I was not comfortable with it. She constantly complains about how my dad is going to put her on the streets and gives her no money, which is a lie. My dad pays for all her bills, mortgage, and car (except the gas). My brother and I try to help her understand how to save money since she tells us she is in debt even though she just built an expensive new patio and goes shopping weekly. We also try to explain why our little sister is uncomfortable at her house because every time she is there our mother has her 'new' friends (that are about my age- late 20's) or her new boyfriend. Every time we try to talk to her she gets very upset and says everyone is against her.

I am not sure how to handle this situation anymore. My siblings and I want to keep a good relationship with her, but her irrational and rude responses to us make it difficult. Any advice would be much appreciated!

[CloudyDay99]

Hi Nicoles,
Welcome to PC. It sounds like you and your family are going through a real hard time. This is a good place to get support and just vent if you need to. Unhappy relationships and divorces can sometimes bring out the worst in people. It might be helpful to just have a little distance from your mother for awhile or minimize your interaction. It can help to meet in public places so if things are not going well you can choose to leave.

Best wishes.

[nicoles]

Originally Posted by CloudyDay99

Hi Nicoles,
Welcome to PC. It sounds like you and your family are going through a real hard time. This is a good place to get support and just vent if you need to. Unhappy relationships and divorces can sometimes bring out the worst in people. It might be helpful to just have a little distance from your mother for awhile or minimize your interaction. It can help to meet in public places so if things are not going well you can choose to leave.

Best wishes.

Thank you for your reply. I have been told by several friends to increase space between us for a bit, so this seems to be the best solution for now.

[Confusedinomicon]

If your mom married early she may be trying to recapture what she believes she missed in her 20s. I've heard of this happening before and was warned about it. (Im about 24 and have been with the same guy since I was 18)

Just a thought that may help you understand her behavior. Its worth asking her if that's what she's experiencing?

[hamster-bamster]

You are conflating objectionable behavior, e.g. lack of appreciation of your father's generous support, with behavior that is not objectionable, such as having younger friends.

Do not be judgmental. If you dislike her bf, keep your dislike to yourself and meet with. The. Mother somewhere where not on her turf. Your place, a public place, etc.

You probably want to select your own friends and boyfriends on your own without her interefering... right? Reverse and apply...

[hamster-bamster]

Nicole,

In your writing, you make it appear that you and your siblings are cute innocent little lambs while your mother is a crazy irrational wolf.

In reality, and let us call a spade a spade, you and your siblings are engaged in what is called ageism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ageism

You are in "good company" - together with racists, people who believe that wheelchair-bound individuals should not have sex, people who believe that obese individuals should not run marathons, etc. etc. So in reality it is all quite ugly, what you and your siblings have been doing. Your mother may not be a lamb, what with mismanagement of money and saying lies about your dad, but you guys are most certainly all wolves.

Clearly, you and your siblings benefited immensely from your mother's sexuality back when your mother was relatively young and married and her sexuality was being expressed in the way that tops the list of what is being approved and sanctioned by society. You benefited because you guys were given the gift of life as a result of that sanctioned expression of sexuality.

And now you are mad that she is expressing sexuality in ways that are not sanctioned by society and yield absolutely no benefit to you! She has younger friends, and not just younger, but the age of her children! How horrible! What a shame that you cannot institutionalize her right away, right now, and trust that the management of a senior center of your choice would make sure your mother never, gasp, visits bars!

If you fail to see it for what it is, at least try to imagine that one day you might have a younger crowd of friends and not want your children to judge you. Try to put yourself in your mother's shoes - Confused offered one of many possible reasons for your mother's behavior.

Édith Piaf, the most popular French singer of the 20th century, "In 1962, she wed Théo Sarapo (Theophanis Lamboukas), a Greek hairdresser-turned-singer and actor who was 20 years her junior." (quoting from Wikipedia on her personal life). "It is said that Sarapo drove her body back to Paris secretly so that fans would think she had died in her hometown. She is buried in Père Lachaise Cemetery in Paris next to her daughter Marcelle, where her grave is among the most visited."

So when she died, the society's establishment (in her case, represented by the Roman Catholic archbishop of Paris) denied her a funeral mass because of her lifestyle (which included lots of lovers, alcohol, etc. etc., and, conceivably, included having a much younger husband). Parisians did not care at all about what the Roman Catholic archbishop of Paris thought of her lifestyle, and the crowd that gathered to mourn her death caused the traffic in Paris to come to a complete halt, which had never happened before in the time of peace.

While your mother would not sing as well as Édith Piaf sang just because your mother has younger friends (it does not work this way), I hope you can learn from the wisdom of the Parisian crowd that halted traffic, and move away from the stance of the society's establishment represented by the Roman Catholic archbishop of Paris.

Your friends who recommend distance are right - if you cannot tolerate your mother's younger friends, you should increase distance, but you should stop trying to explain to your mother why her youngest child is uncomfortable - her youngest child is uncomfortable for reasons that are reprehensible rather than commendable, and it is wrong to attempt to justify those reasons, and, even worse, feel self-righteous about those reasons - you and your siblings are being self-righteous in your ageism. Remember that only a few decades ago interracial marriage was not allowed in America - you can be sure that the white people who were against interracial marriage felt as self-righteous as you and your siblings feel now.

I would also recommend you watch https://www.thebigweddingmovie.com/ because it is a great movie which is very funny and well done, and it takes one baby step away from ageism. The only erotic scene that is actually depicted is between young people (unknown actors, I believe), but there are hints at erotic scenes between people of the parents' generation (all played by top actors/actresses). While the hints are at erotic scenes between older people who are age peers and not across generations, the film is still a step forward and away from ageism. So I recommend that you and your siblings all watch it.

[TippPatt]

Oh Nicoles, you are seeing your mother as other than your mother and it appals you.

First, give both of you space and meet, as suggested, in a neutral space. If when setting up the meeting she says she's bringing 'friends', politely say oh, I forgot and have other plans for that day. Eventually, she'll get the idea that you want her alone and not with her friends. Never, ever say it outright to her as you really have no place in judging your mother. To do that simply sets up for your mom a reason to be angry at you down the line.

Secondly, your sister's relationship with your mom isn't your business, it's your sister's. If she can't speak up for herself, which is what you should foster, then help her learn the words she wants to say.

Third, walk away when your mom starts speaking ill of your dad. Don't get into an argument, just find you need to be elsewhere. Again, your mom will get the hint and stop doing that without, again, having an axe to grind with you and your siblings.

As to the whining that will come from your mom that you guys are never there --- offer to be there whenever she asks. Mother's Day, her Birthday, and the Holidays are a must - no matter who she has in attendance. Other than that, you're busy if she includes folks you aren't comfortable with.

Eventually, like every mom, she'll want her babies around much more than the crowd she has now. She's simply enjoying her new freedom and that will look nothing like the mom you've always known. Accept that and save yourself a heck of a lot of grief.

[healingme4me]

Must be difficult, knowing that your 14 year old sibling is being subjected to men in your moms home that are closer to 14 than I'd presume someone in their 40's? (based on you being 24). [add: especially with alcohol involved]

I can see the concern. At the same time, what can your dad do, to ensure the safety of his youngest child, emotionally at the least? Isn't this a conversation he should be having with your mom?

Hoping the best for your family

[nicoles]

I realize I only pointed out the negative aspects of my view and failed to mention any positive. I am actually happy for her in the sense she is becoming her 'own person' again. She has a new sense of freedom, and I am glad she is learning to be on her own and independent. I am not appalled by her actions as a single woman and understand COMPLETELY that it is very new to her since, yes, she has been married since 23.

It is the way she speaks of my father and what she is subjecting my younger sister too that upsets me. Fourteen is a pivotal age; my sister's relationship with my mother is fragile right now. I already see her holding grudges since my mother speaks about all these young guys that 'want' her and even bringing them in the house at night in front of my sister. My sister rarely wants to stay with her anymore because of all this. When I try to explain to mom that what she is spreading all over her facebook (pictures at parties weekly and sexual statuses) and reveals to my sister is what is causing the rudeness, she becomes very angry with me. I am a very passive person and am careful with the way I explain things to her; it is the fact that I am the only person revealing the truth about the situation is what makes her so angry. The same anger ensues when trying to help her out financially. She constantly complains to my brother and I that she is in extreme debt and my father is going to put her on the street. We both regard this complaint as a cry for help and both try to explain that shopping weekly and avoiding fancy dinners multiple nights a week will help save money. About a week ago she blew at me for trying to help again with extreme anger I had never seen from her before. I apologized many times for upsetting her and told her I would stop trying to advise her financially and on situations with my sister. The day after this blow-up (one that I thought would have altered our relationship for a while) she acted like nothing ever happened. I was not expecting an apology, even though I hoped for one, but was expecting a forgiveness since I had not heard back since I apologized.

Is acting like nothing happened or that I am worried about her the best solution even though it pains me and my siblings? We can only avoid these feelings for so long before they take a mental toll, especially on my sister. We want her to be happy and have fun being single as well as becoming her new self.

[hamster-bamster]

That is very difficult. Whom does the 14-year-old live with most of the time?