Intimacy Issues with My Wife

Sorry you're having intimacy issues. I agree you both need to address this and I think you have valid concerns. I don't think you really want to look outside your marriage and hopefully you can get your wife to understand your needs. I think you need to set a time when she's willing to listen, without being defensive - you should explain exactly what you need and what would be the ideal expectations. I understand you need more passion. Was there ever a time when you both couldn't wait to be intimate?

Ask her what's the barrier in spicing up your sex life. Tell her you don't want to look outside the marriage, but you need this to improve. Let her know you want her to be anxious and initiate once in a while. Tell her you want to understand the reasons and how you both can solve this together. Explain this affects your self esteem and this has become a serious issue. I saw one couple on Oprah and their sex life became sparse and mundane. They both pledged to have sex everyday for a year no matter what. This promise to please each other made them happier. You seem like a good man and you deserve better. I hope she'll understand and hopefully you both can solve this.

* I don't think we should encourage this man to seek sex outside the marriage - this won't solve his marriage problem.

Thanks for the replies, I will try to answer some of the questions posed.

I do agree that there could be underlying self esteem problems that she has... I've propped her up over the years... she has no reason to have self esteem problems, she's extremely smart, likeable, attractive, she works hard, she prides herself on being very organized etc. This is where the "control" part comes in, she just likes things her way (who doesn't?). For the most part I go along with what she wants, if I plan something I usually run it by her etc. We do get along mostly.

She doesn't always dismiss my ideas, but if she disagrees, her initial reaction is to immediately defend her position without really listening to what I'm saying or my rationale, especially when it comes to the kids. Most of the time we're on the same page though, so it's not like fights all of the time.

My real problem is that she does basically control the intimacy. She doesn't want to admit it at all though, because in her mind if she doesn't really want it, but then ultimately decide to go through with getting together, (even if she didn't want to) then that's proof of me having at least some control.

For me I want to *feel* like I have more intimacy... so that doesn't mean I want to have sex every day, but I want to feel like the door is open more than it is closed. If we are together one day, I don't feel like I can ask her the next day.

We went to Hawaii no kids for a week last year, and I was thinking that ok, romantic getaway, no kids for a week... we can have a lot of fun together. We only got together once that entire week... even though I tried to get together more.

The crazy thing is that when we are together she does like it, I don't have a problem with satisfying her.

What I don't understand is why is all of this such a big deal.... I just want to get together more a little bit more often, and feel like she'll be way more likely to say yes than no. And in-between getting together we can have affection (not a ton) that doesn't need to lead to sex.... I don't mind giving massages or whatever it is she wants....

So I have to figure out how to get her to agree to this sort of compromise and try to determine what that compromise will be without her getting all defensive and having it cause a fight. What I've been trying to do (somewhat successfully, but sometimes not) is when we do talk about this, keeping myself very calm... let her be the one yelling and me not, but sometimes that pisses her off even more.....

It's quite a quagmire!

THIS is very Disturbing behavior and the comments about druging your wife, not acceptable. Not to mention how your little mans ego would shrink, knowing you were not good enough.

Some of the most intimate relationships have no sexual component.

Sound to me like you want your wife, the mother of your children in the front of the house and a ***** in the bedroom. You have the right to want what you want but these are your desires and not a need.

I just want her to not immediately go to the "no" position. In the end I chalk it up to a control issue, and
an inability for her to admit that she needs me.

I think what you are trying to say is that you want her to desire and lust for you, this will not be achieved by controlling mechanisms but rather the opposite.

What is going on in your wifes head today, if i may presume, by your statement it's never enough is " ITs ALWAYS going to go the "no" position.

My advice would be take that "no" position off the table for a while and learn what she likes, what pleasures her without penetration. She might not know herself as girls are told good girls don't. This has been embedded in the minds of woman for thousand years.

A few good books : THE CLAIMING OF SLEEPING BEAUTY/ BEAUTY'S PUNISHMENT/and BEAUTY'S RELEASE . erotica under the name A. N. Roquelaure ( get all 3 for her as a gift with a bottle of wine or whatever she likes) and no expectations.
H.

Maybe you can have an open calm discussion and come to a deal - at least once a week she has to be creative and initiate sex with you and you have one day where you initiate...she accepts. Then one night is for closeness and cuddling with no obligations to have sex.

Has she read any books on improving intimacy/sex...... especially learning how to initiate. Ask her if she's willing to role play or dress up etc - then you both can use these ideas on your night. I would even propose it as a deal you both make, that you commit to. Sex is usually a priority when couples are dating and its important to keep it one. Explain you need to feel desired and you want to find solutions.

It sounds like, based on myself, she has emotional issues, not control issues. She may need you, badly, but cannot express it physically. Women are/were taught to be pure and not give it up, etc. and it is possible and quite likely for women to be overpowered by males so there can be quite a bit of fear; I don't think it is wholly conscious (instead of thinking she does not need you, try reminding yourself she may fear you).

It sounds like you are an extremely caring husband; were I you, I would accent my vulnerability (talk about feeling rejected and your hurt feelings if you can) so she "naturally" wants to soothe you and make you feel better? The more you can model vulnerability (rather than straight "caring" like with flowers and gifts, etc.) the better she might get at allowing herself to express it too.

My husband has made a game of kissing; we found if I stand on a single step that we're just the right size for each other's arms so when we find a single step in our environment, he'll say, "Assume the position!" standing there patiently while I run to the step or I'll keep standing on a step until he comes over, etc. Too, my husband has a damaged foot from his teen years that pains him constantly and the only thing that helps is my massaging it. I do not want him in pain and massage his food almost every day but I battle with myself too, because sometimes I am not in the "mood" or it's not convenient/comfortable for me but his pain is in the back of my head and so I'm between the taking care of my needs and his needs rock and hard place?

Intimacy as one gets older is harder for a woman; it's less comfortable and the urges one has as a 35 year old (women hit their peak later than men) almost wholly go away, unlike for a man where they just lessen perhaps. I would try to work within what you know she does like (cuddling at all? My husband pats my bottom before sleep like a beloved child, we have that routine too) and expand it a bit. Have you ever masturbated with her help, for example?

Lynn,

"Maybe you can have an open calm discussion and come to a deal - at least once a week she has to be creative and initiate sex with you and you have one day where you initiate...she accepts. Then one night is for closeness and cuddling with no obligations to have sex."

This would be ideal..... I think that we've talked about something like this in the past, and I think she'd at least agree to it, but then I think it's hard for her to follow up.

We already agreed we'd be together at least twice a week, but she has a hard time actually doing that. Which to me is depressing.... I'm a good looking guy, workout, stay in shape etc... Plus I'm not a jerk....(at least I don't think so).... So I start to think... "what's wrong with me"... but I'm very confident now that it's not me, it is her... I know I could go out and get another woman easily... but that's really not what I want for many different reasons. I'd rather her just be more open and relaxed about the situation.

The problem is right now we can't even have a conversation about intimacy or sex without her freaking out about it. I think she feels like something is wrong with her, and she doesn't want to be reminded. She's compartmentalizing it, and trying to avoid me I think.

I am indeed going off what her husband said, and nothing else.

Those many hypothetical reasons would have been fine... 1-2 years into the marriage. With that kind of a tenure being married, having pain she does not report to her husband, having flashbacks she does not report to her husband, suffering from panic attacks her husband knows nothing about
etc. would call into question why she decided to marry him in the first place.

Plus... "plain hurts" would refer to PIV, right? (penis-in-vagina). So "plain hurts" could explain unwillingness to engage in PIV, but would not explain the unwillingness to do anything else normally done by married couples (kissing, hugging, fellatios - that kind of stuff). So "plain hurts" does not explain things with her - per the husband, she is unwilling to engage in being intimate in any kind of way, rather than unwilling to engage in PIV.

Re - (1) since I suggested using substances to overcome inhibitions and what seems to be an extreme need for control (based on her being proud of being very organized - that is clearcut manifestation on wanting a lot of control over one's environment), so I wonder how using substances would lead to casurfer's ego being diminished. I don't follow the connection between trying to relax her inhibitions and having the husband's ego diminished. Substances that work towards relaxing a person are just one of many ways to relax - mindfulness and grounding exercises add to the list of ways to relax, but they require much more effort.

Re - (2). How would what casurfer reported amount to his wanting his wife to be a ***** in the bedroom? Where did you see it in his posts? I have condensed the posts to highlight the basic theme:

3) it depends how you define "needs". No, casurfer does not need intimacy for physical survival. No, the couple does not need intimacy for perpetuating the species - they have done their share of reproduction. So in that sense, no, casurfer does not have a need. Strictly speaking - no, he does not. But in the minds of most people, a husband who wants some modest amount of intimacy with his wife is well within his right to call his desire a "need". If we go by that very strict definition of what a "need" is that you seem to endorse, then we should shut down 99% of factories, since the crap they produce is not vital to our physical survival.

dance classes for the two of you! tango, salsa, ballroom dance - anything with man/woman dancing together. Way better than talk therapy, I am sure!

Do you participate in other intimate activities besides intercourse? Intimate chat (not necessarily sexual) and other activities?

Female partners tend to respond to a man who does the housework for them. Have you tried this?

This is along the lines of what I get from your posts...she seems afraid/anxious and maybe she doesn't know why or maybe she's too afraid to talk about why. Maybe it's more subconscious.

This behavior sort of reminds me of how I feel I will react to a situation where I might be intimate with someone and it makes me anxious to read your posts. It might be a better idea at this point to get back off for a little while and focus other aspects of the relationship and your life. She may feel like there's even more pressure put onto her.

Hamster: If OP gets his wife to have sex with him through alcohol, wife is going to feel exploited and will likely not drink again.

Also, it does not solve the core intimacy problem. This is not just mechanical sex for OP, it's about intimacy and connection with his wife, not just getting off.

I completely quote Perna. Doesn't seem like a control issue per se, but a fear of letting herself go, to experience pleasure.

I don't know what religion she was born and raised into, if any, but many religions (or I should say, the way they are often presented) say that sex is only for having children.
I don't know what kind of parents she grew up with. I don't think they were parents who made her happy of her femininity. Maybe somebody made her feel ashamed of herself physically.

The point is, I very much doubt that you can change things alone without some counseling. The relationship between the 2 of you is so established that I am not very optimistic in you getting to change it. And the fact the she said no to counseling is not encouraging. Seems like she feels some kind of knot, of trouble and is VERY afraid of inquiring into it.

She is pressing you to go on like this. And you have to talk to her as open-heartedly as you can, telling her that you tried your best to accept her exactly as she is now, but there are really no reasons why she shouldn't be enjoying intimacy with a loved husband.
Tell her that you waited for her to adjust to yourself too but you are beginning to loose hope and some parts of you are resenting this.

If she couldn't overcome her fears in 20 years with a loving husband, means that there really is something deep inside of her, some problem regarding sex that she has not been willing to face till now.

Go back to your counselor and see if he has better advices than us.

This, of course, if you are not requiring sex from her every day, even more than once a day.

Best of luck

To answer some of your questions....

I am not asking for every day... it's more of a feeling of having access, and not having to go through a set routine every time. I'm ok with doing what she likes most of the time, but sometimes I'd like her to either initiate it and/or be open to different things.

One poster mentioned other emotional or intimate things... she is not into verbal intimacy, I would be totally open to that.

I think to some extent she is embarrassed about her sexuality or does not want to admit that she needs me that way. Perhaps it's deep rooted guilt from her parents. She's not religious though, but her mother is quite nuts...

The trouble really is we cannot even talk about this without it upsetting her. I am working on getting her to talk to our counselor.

Our counselor basically explained to me that generally speaking, many men equate love to intimacy (which explains my needs).... she also was saying that many people feel loved differently. For me it's through physical connection, and through communication and non verbal communication (like hugging, etc). Her needs are obviously different, but the key is getting each other to give what each of us needs.

I've been really patient with this, probably way too patient.... but we did work on this before, and she is better about things than she was... it's just not where I think we need to be. I've changed too as well.... by making sure I don't put pressure on her, I compliment her every day, I do house work, give massages etc...... whatever makes her happy......

I hope she can learn that she will make me happier if she doesn't say no very often, and engages me emotionally and physically more...

I do not know about alcohol because I do not react to it at all. I do know that the Bible of childrearing in the States - the series of books titled "what to expect when you are expecting", "what to expect in your baby's first year", etc., which are sold by the truckload and represent the most mainstream ideas of all, suggest using a little alcohol to ease into resuming sexual intercourse after the delivery of a baby. Again, I have nothing to do with this advice at all, because I, for one, did not have any issues resuming sex after the delivery and do not know why women would have issues resuming sex after the delivery, and, for another, do not react to alcohol the way most people do - it just does not have that effect on me. But I do know that using a little alcohol it is the most STANDARD advice, because the "what to expect..." series is the most STANDARD FARE SOLD BY THE TRUCKLOAD.

Here - What to Expect When You're Expecting, 4th Edition: Heidi Murkoff, Sharon Mazel: 9780761148579: Amazon.com: Books

into the 4th edition and "What to Expect When You're Expecting is a perennial New York Times bestseller and one of USA Today's 25 most influential books of the past 25 years. It's read by more than 90% of pregnant women who read a pregnancy book--the most iconic, must-have book for parents-to-be, with over 14.5 million copies in print."

So the stats on how iconic and popular the book is establishes that using alcohol is a standard, common sense approach.

The purpose of using alcohol is not for the husband to take advantage of the wife, but for the wife to feel less inhibited and less controlling.

I do personally have nice reactions to pot edibles though, and from that vantage point recommend it highly provided it is legal when casurfer is. The purpose, again, is not to make the wife submit to the husband, but to make her less inhibited and less controlling. She is extremely controlling - she has a set fixed routine that is the only way she can engage in sex - that demonstrates extreme rigidity. Mind-altering substances help deal with rigidity by altering the state of consciousness, as do some religious rituals, some shamanic practices, some meditation exercises, and a whole host of other means developed to date to change the state of consciousness. By the way, one of the reasons people close their eyes during sex or during tango classes is to change the state of consciousness and the focus of their attention.

None of this has to do with being taken advantage of - the wife has to want to work towards lowering the inhibitions and lowering the expectations of always being in full control of her environment and experiences. In other word, she has to be willing to try - whatever it is that she might try, be it therapy, mind-altering substances, dance classes, trips to Hawaii with the stated purpose to be together more, or any other things. She has to be willing to try. Somebody who is being willing to try is not being taken advantage of=exploited.

Nor did I ever say that mind-altering substances are used to get off, mechanically - I suggested them as one of many ways to break through the wall of controlling rigidity the wife has built around herself. In other words, it can be tried as one of many ways towards building intimacy. Absolutely no relation to getting off.

This is not an issue - if anything, casurfer is overdoing his contributions to the household. Not sure about the "over" part, but, quite clearly, he is not UNDER-contributing - that is for sure.

casurfer - but how did you manage to marry her in the first place?

you say that things are getting better. so it was EVEN worse. How did you decide to propose to her? because, quite clearly, this was not an arranged marriage - you chose her on your own volition. What were you thinking back then?

Thanks for your answer.

I was also thinking that it will be better to specify that counseling is needed not because she IS wrong, but because she may have LEARNED something wrong, too long ago maybe to remember.
It is important to mark this difference.
Things we learn, especially if we are too young to digest them consciously, might became so much part of ourselves that is seems that it is US. But it not so. It is what we have learned.

You might ask her if she is thinks wrong or bad the things you ask. If the doesn't think so, I guess you have a way to prove that it is not her, but maybe it's something she was induced to believe.

Again best of luck and congratulations for being such a loving husband

Hi Casurf...I read through the thread, and I just have a few questions and a comment.

1) what does "having access" mean? I dont understand. Does that mean like a 7-11 having access?

2) "probably way too patient"...are you angry? Resentful?

3) how do you mean "not putting pressure on her"... and how does that tie into "complimenting her, doing housework and giving her massages and 'whatever makes her happy'"?

Just a lil response even though I think you rejected the notion several times: I personally think going outside the marriage even with an "agreement" or resorting to drugs and/or alcohol if your Significant Other has trust / intimacy issues isnt such a great idea. Especially if you (meaning the collective "you") do not know the root of the siuation. These tactics could result in splitting you up even further and sound terrifyingly manipulative.

I just wanted to put that out there since there may be some major issues at play here considering she refuses to see a T.

I also just wanted to thank you for posting and making such efforts to help your relationship. It says nice things about you and that you are willing to go above and beyond.

1. What I mean by having "access" is that right now she pretty much dictates if and when we are together. She has a hard time with being spontaneous.... basically I want to feel like she'd be way more likely to say yes than no if I were to come onto her physically. In the past she'd say no 3/4 of the time.... now she tries not to say no, but she has non-verbal communication which says no, or sometimes just says no. Not as frequently though.

Don't get me wrong, we are together... it used to be like 1 or 2 times per month, now we're better more like once per week. I am happy with the change, but still it usually has to go down a certain way for her to get into it. So to me it's not as bad as a flat out rejection, but it's quite boring, and I really never know if she'll go for it or not...basically she controls the sex.

2. I should have said something way earlier in our relationship, like when we were 21.... I did say something in the past, but I think we'd have fights over some of this stuff, so this is why today it's still an issue. Her mother did "shame" her in the past to some extent over sex, so part of the issue is that. She didn't tell me about this until after we were married though.

3. I don't wait on her hand and foot.... but when it comes to being physical, I am very giving person and have a lot of energy. I like to try to make her happy... so when she's not happy, it can really affect me. I think lots of people are like me. But I do help around the house... I don't just come home and expect her to cook and clean etc.... but if we're hanging out watching TV or whatever, I'll rub her feet or do stuff to make her happy with or without her asking. Again, this isn't like any sort of D/s stuff, it's just nice to do, I have the energy to do it, and it enriches our lives.

Someone asked why I married her.... well that's a good question.... I really do love her and like hanging out with her. She's really a cool chick, really attractive, smart etc. We both get along well mostly.... we just have this one thing, which to me is a major thing, and to her isn't such a major thing. She says she's satisfied in her sex life, and I think she'd like to change to be more sexual with me, but she doesn't know how to, or is ashamed to do it. Putting lingerie she said is embarrassing.... so she knows I like it, but doesn't do it that often because it makes her uncomfortable.

All of this is frustrating to me, because I just want us to have fun together and not have all of these rules, and I want to have more control over when and how we have sex and when and how we are intimate.

She's not good at making out really, doesn't like it.. which is odd because before I dated her almost every woman I dated really liked making out... and I do too... so anyway, I think it's all connected part of the inhibitions she has over this.

you are either spontaneous, or, you pride yourself on being super organized.

either or - these things are mutually exclusive.

this is a deep issue that probably is due to hard-wiring in her brain. it is probably deeper and harder to change than the more superficial effects of shaming by her mother. Do agree though that a mother who is nuts and who is into shaming can screw her daughter up royally without any assistance from organized religions.

Sorry if my questions put you on the defensive. I was just curious actually because i really did not understand.as the thread progressed.

And the paragraph "not try to put pressure on her" and then "do whatever makes her happy" sounded a little off to me, that's all. Kind of submisssive or walking on eggshells kind of stuff.

And I am sure you are both extremely attractive, intelligent, cool people. I was just wondering what you really meant. A few things werent clear to me as you wrote them.

Boiled down...sounds like you want more and she is happy with the status quo and it has become sort of a point of contention between you. It sounds like she has made her position clear.

Thanks for your reply. Your efforts are amazing, and
I truly hope you can work things out.

Rose

Rose,

Thanks for the reply, I didn't mean to come off defensive, the question is fair....

I hope we can work it out, it takes two people though. I don't think it's fair for her to just flat out say no. When two people are committed, exclusive and faithful to each other... then I believe that both of you should WANT to make each other happy for one.... but beyond that, there is some level of obligation that goes with that sort of arrangement don't you think?

Also if a couple is married and one partner doesn't want to be physical anymore... they certainly cannot have an expectation that the other partner not find and outlet for their relationship needs? I mean in a way that is like breach of contract.

So in my situation, I've jumped through all of the hoops and done everything she has asked... but she doesn't appear to be AS interested in meeting me in the middle.

Pretty much this right here.
There's been a lot said here in this thread, all over the spectrum. But regardless of where anyone stands, it's truly a matter of compatibility. It doesn't sound like the two of you are compatible in ways that mean a lot to you, and you're not happy seeking it elsewhere (attempting to pursue an open relationship, for example) because you want it with the person you're married with. Have you mentioned to your wife that this could be a dealbreaker for you, that you've gone as far as you feel like you can and if she doesn't bring more to the table then the two of you have a serious problem?

I think it sums it up.

And, casurfer, you yourself feel the way spondiferous put it. You used different wording: you said "breach of contract" and she said "deal breaker", but the meaning is the same. You said the same thing - that it is a critical issue.