Friend being thoughtless

I am having some issues with a girl I've been friends with for about 12 years. It's hard because I don't want to hurt or upset her, but right now she's hurting and upsetting me.

She moved to another country a couple of years ago, so we mainly communicate via a text messaging app. Phone calls make me very stressed and panicky, which is something to work on in therapy but really not top of the priority list right now. She has never quite understood that and used to pressure me to talk on the phone when she still lived in the UK.

We both got married in 2012 and she now has a baby. She knows I've had a sleep disorder for years (hypersomnia, which is similar to narcolepsy) and she knows I've put off starting a family because I'm in therapy. Recently, I told her I have PTSD because of trauma. She said: "Childhood trauma?" I said yes, partly, and she said nothing else. She hasn't mentioned it since. Either she doesn't feel comfortable talking about it, or she thinks it's something for me to bring up if I want to. That's fine.

I don't mind hearing about her baby. I really don't. But lately she keeps messaging me about how tiring it is having a baby and how she hasn't had a good night's sleep since before she was pregnant. I get that having a baby is tiring. I get that she moved abroad and doesn't know that many people, so she feels kind of isolated. But she has other friends. I wish she would talk to anyone but me about this.

Because she knows I have a sleep disorder and I have been permanently, perpetually tired for about half my life. She knows I've put off having a baby. I don't want to hear all this stuff about how tiring it is having a baby and how I can't imagine what it's like. I don't understand why she thinks I'm the person to speak to about this. It would be okay if she acknowledged that I'm tired and this must be what I feel like all the time, but it's like she's just stopped seeing me altogether.

I find myself wanting to say: "I'm not the right person to talk to about this," or "Could you speak to someone else about this?" but I don't want to be selfish and insensitive. It's just that she chose to have a baby and she's going to be tired for a finite amount of time. I didn't choose this, I can't have a baby yet and I'm going to be tired for an indefinite amount of time. I just wish she would be a tiny bit more sensitive, that's all. If I was her, I'd acknowledge that the other person knew what it was like to be tired, or something.

I feel like, since I told her I have PTSD, all she has talked about is how tired she is. But I feel like I'm being a lousy friend to her. Motherhood is hard, after all. Is there a tactful way to ask her to stop talking to me in such an insensitive way? I feel like maybe she doesn't have space for me to be me, because when I told her something about how I'm struggling, she said: "But you're emotionally stable." Not: "I didn't realise things were so difficult." It was like she was telling me who she expects me to be.

Maybe I'm just being horrible, I don't know. I'm going to talk to my T as well but I'd appreciate anyone else's input - many thanks in advance.

I don't think you're being horrible at all, tinyrabbit.
Your friend sounds very self-absorbed especially since she KNOWS you've put off having your own baby and why. I think it goes beyond being just thoughtless.

I don't have any advice on how to handle it with her - I'm terrible at that myself. I typically opt for one extreme or the other and then regret it.

Thanks so much for your supportive response. It's hard because I don't want to hurt her. She's hurting me but she doesn't realise she's doing that. It seems worse if I hurt or upset her now as I'll know I'm doing it.

I feel like some people have a relationship with an idea of me, rather than me as I actually am, and she is one of them. That's not just down to her - I think I need better boundaries or something.

When I think about stuff like this, I feel the same way- it's difficult for me to tell people I care about that they are being hurtful... particularly if what they are doing is kind of in a grey area? Like, if they don't clearly know they are upsetting me.

I mean, you could start to approach when she says she's tired by relating to it clearly with your experience, you could express how you don't mind talking to her about how she is tired as long as it is a "sharing is caring" thing- like sharing strategies to resolve the situation, use the best of your energy, etc... and not just a completely whine session every time.

No one likes being dumped on constantly.

She DID choose to have a baby. But no one knows what that is going to be like until they actually go through with it.

If you don't want to support her, that is certainly your choice, and I really make no judgement about it. I have things that I can't be actively supportive about and I dodge discussion of such items like the damn plague.

But, this is one of the most important life events that she can go through... I don't know how recently she had the baby, but eventually she will adapt. She'll suck it up, realize she's in it for the long haul and being a parent is sometimes just about being tired- she can learn that from making friends with other parents much easier, though.

I don't know what country she is in, but if there are any parenting groups, mother social groups, play groups, etc... I would strongly encourage her to head in that direction.

Even something online- like a loose newsletter or something might ease any anxiety she may be feeling.

I mean ultimately you can pick what you support your friends in, but they can do the same.

If you make her aware that you don't feel comfortable having so many discussions specifically about the baby [for whatever reason, you don't have to say precisely], but in a caring "I want you to know because otherwise I'm walking around upset with you and I don't want to be upset with you for something you aren't aware of" kinda way?

You and her should be able to work around all of this, in some way.

If you can't... it's more likely that issues just abound.
...but I mean, something to think about- pretty much everyone goes nuts when they have a kid. It's like a biological imperitive. Then eventually they realize the rest of the world exists again.

I've gone through it with several friends- they are all good people, but they did go a little out there.
They came back.

Have you thought about video calls/skyping?

ETA:
ALSO- you are not being horrible at all.
I think it's difficult to remember that other people don't see how we struggle through the world when we have things like constant fatigue or anxiety or ptsd... especially if we "present well". [I have the impression that your friend thinks this]

So sometimes we have to actually tell them. It's not really fun, but the alternative is fostering a growing rift.

I completely understand this. I feel the same way with many of my friends too. I never thought about my (crappy) boundaries being the issue - I always assumed it's because I get so caught up in pretending. I pretend that everything's fine and then feel hurt when noone notices that it's not.
So I guess I need less boundaries is some ways and more in another.

I promise I'm not trying to be negative...but are you sure she doesn't realise that she's hurting you? It's just hard for me to imagine constantly complaining to someone who I KNOW suffers from a sleep disorder about being tired.

I think this is a difficult situation. First, I can offer you a bit about my experience when I became a mother. My first child did not sleep for more than an hour at a time for many months. Then he woke up four times a night during that first year. Even though I've now had trouble sleeping for over two years, the tiredness I feel now is nothing compared to that first year with my child. I remember very clearly that when he was about 15 months old and I was getting more sleep, I had a mini-revelation. I had actually slept ok for a couple of weeks and I was sitting on my couch realizing just how out of it I had been for over a year. It was like the first time I could think like a normal human being again.

I'm not trying to say one type of fatigue is worse than another, because that is completely unfair--sort of like comparing levels of mental illness. But maybe your friend (either due to extreme fatigue or hormones) is incapable of thinking clearly or thinking about anyone's needs but her own. Because of this, I think it's important for you to think about your needs. Certainly you don't want to dismiss your friend, but she may not be able to be a friend to you right now.

What really helped me get through things at that time was to join a mother's group. It let all of us talk about new babies with other people who were interested. Perhaps suggest this to her in a way like, "Wow, I really can't relate but I hear some people benefit from having a new mom's peer group. Have you looking into that? I'm just concerned you're not getting the support you need right now?"

No matter what your friend is experiencing, I think there is nothing wrong with making your needs clear in a direct, yet respectful way. "I love hearing about the baby, but when you talk about how tired you are, it makes me think about how tired I've been for so long. Since I'm exploring my PTSD now, it's difficult to have these types of conversations. Maybe we can focus on all the good things about being a new mother?" I know everyone is different, but I can't imagine a comment like that would be offensive. Whether it will improve things, well, I don't know.

Sorry for the rambling. I guess I'm just saying I can understand a little bit why she's being an insensitive oaf (yes, she is!) and can understand your feelings completely. You need to take care of you. Hopefully your T will be able to help you do that.

When she says how tired she is and that you can't imagine.. I'd probably respond with something like "Yes, actually I do understand... I am so tired all of the time that it is precisely WHY I don't have a child yet...because I am already too tired all of the time. I guess you understand how I feel pretty much everyday now!"

I hope she'll come around sooner or later. And that her baby still start sleeping longer stints so that she'll feel less tired and less likely to need to vent about it. When did you mention the PTSD to her? Was it before she as pregnant, during pregnancy, or after having a baby?

If she doesn't really understand PTSD, and you disclosed while she was going through one of the biggest changes in her life... then she quite probably hasn't registered it, or processed it. I don't think she's ignoring that about you on purpose.

With that said - I would be feeling really upset too. In fact, I actually totally get it. I spent two years living overseas... and during that time my friend became pregnant - which she didn't tell me about because she figured that everyone was finding out via word of mouth. I was like "... how could I know? We don' have mutual friends and I live across an ocean." I was really hurt as we've been friends since I was 9 (officially 20 years as of this year! so that that point we'd been friends for like... 16 years..). This is my 5th year since I left to go to the UK... and you know what? She's never once asked how it was for me there. She never asked anything about me during the two years I lived there, and even since returning and seeing her a few times? She has never, not once, inquired about my life. I've sort of given up and that hurts me a lot. So.... I understand the hurt that you're feeling.

Could she be struggling with depression and not really realize how she sounds? Or is this a pattern with her?

Thanks so much for all your responses - I won't get to reply more fully until tomorrow but I just wanted to acknowledge the replies and say thanks.

Thanks again for all your replies. My T asked why I'm friends with her, and I couldn't actually think of an answer. I'm not sure I've got that much from the friendship for a while now, but I kind of feel obliged to continue it because I don't want to hurt her. My T and I figured out that, while she's being thoughtless, it's not just about what she's saying - because I have other friends who could make the same complaints and it wouldn't bother me so much, because with them there's more give and take. She's bothering me because she's being thoughtless and she isn't there for me.

My T said I could approach this as an opportunity. I could see it as a chance to practise kind of renegotiating boundaries and stuff. I kind of told him where he could shove it, because I'm not sure I have the energy and I feel like it takes two people to make an unhealthy situation and two people to change it - is anything going to change if I'm the only one trying?

I've asked if she has got to know other parents etc and she seems quite resistant to any advice. She just wants to vent. That's totally fine, just she picked the wrong person to do it to.

Video calls freak me out even more but thanks for suggesting it all the same.

I think you're right about presenting well. The thing is it's like she wants to believe I present well and refuses to see beyond that. Not that she realises that's what she's doing.

I don't think you're being negative. It's a good question - thank you for asking. Am I sure? I think so, because she tries to be a caring person and I don't think she would deliberately or knowingly hurt me. I think she just doesn't GET the sleep disorder. Some people don't, however much you explain it to them.

This is very insightful, thank you. I appreciated your other advice as well.

This is a really tactful way of putting it, thank you.

It was after having the baby, when she was about five months old.

I'm really sorry you can relate. That sounds tough - I totally get why you found that hurtful.

You know, I'm not sure. I asked her if she thought she could have depression and she said no. I think she's just tired, to be honest.

Ultimately, I think this is bugging me because I wouldn't do this to someone. If I knew someone had a medical condition that made them tired, I wouldn't moan to them about being tired. I just wouldn't. And I wish other people would show me the same sensitivity, and I guess I need to expect it from them. Gah. I'm not sure what to do with this friendship any more, really - I feel I haven't got much from it for a while now, but I also don't feel I can just bail on her.

You're not horrible. You're not a terrible friend. You have needs and your own issues. Sometimes it gets difficult to listen to other people's troubles if that's what they do a lot of and they seem to use you as their primary soundboard.

Nothing wrong with voicing how you feel. It doesn't have to be mean, accusatory or insensitive. Just state the facts without making what she's doing, as wrong or anything but something you can't handle hearing about all the time. Just be objective in your telling her this. If you are talking about your feellings and needs, it should not hurt her. If she's still upset about it even as you try to be speaking sensitively, that's not really on you.

Think of it this way. If you don't voice how it makes you feel, how it bothers you, how can she be expected to behave in a manner that you want?

Your not being a horrible friend. But you might be taking this too personally.

If shes not getting enough sleep and such thinking clearly might be an issue. Also maybe she's thinking that if you have problems with being tired all the time then mayb you can relate.

I can say you can speak up and tell her to stop it. And she would probably stop, but she might just stop talking to you all together.

You might want to take a look at how much you complain to her and see if that's why she thinks its okay. If you both tend to complain about things with each other maybe she doesn't know that this particular thing is diffrent to you because it annoys you because you are tired also.

I don't complain to her much at all, it's just I've told her what's going on.

I think maybe the friendship isn't such a close friendship any more, if I look at it completely honestly.

Maybe she is trying to identify with you? You have trouble sleeping so she is talking about trouble sleeping. What other subjects do you all have in common? What did you talk about before she moved/had a baby?

I would simply say something like, "I don't want to talk about how tired we are, let's talk about __________". I would just redirect what you talk about, let her know you are not interested in talking about being tired or babies :-) I think that is all we can do about what other people find interesting to talk about; let them know we are not interested in that subject, how about this one.

I'm not sure what we have in common any more. IDK, it's one of those friendships where I feel very obliged, if that makes sense.

I have a few friendships like this. Where all the conversations we have are about that friends problems and about what they are doing. and they seriously blow off any of my problems like they are nothing or don't allow me to say anything about what i think is interesting.

I just quit talking to them. If they text or call me fine. I let them complain for a bit because I still have a little bit of affection for them but most of the conversations i keep shortish because we dont have much to talk about.

Maybe you could just keep any conversations she starts with you short? If she wants you to call her and it makes you uncomfortable just pretend like you didn't get her message, you forgot, or you didn't get a chance to.

People drift apart. Not talking to her after a while is normal.

I think I've worked quite hard to fill my life with good, supportive, equal relationships, so the not so great ones are starting to really stick out more.

I think I'm just going to kind of keep things brief, like Sharp_Lace says, and see what happens.