Ugly fight last night

I'm sorry in advance, this will be long...

This is my previous thread, if anyone wants to read it:

http://forums.psychcentral.com/relat...e-anymore.html

He ignored me all day yesterday, to the point I got really mad. When he finally came to talk to me, I told him I wasn't in a good mood, he asked why, and after a moment of silence to gather my thoughts, I told him basically what I wrote in that thread above (that he doesn't communicate, doesn't initiate talks, is happy to just ignore issues, I feel he doesn't care, etc).
He replied by saying I give him anxiety and he's scared to talk to me, mostly because, he says, I make him feel stupid. He asked if I thought I did anything wrong, and I said, yeah, I probably do a lot of things wrong, but what I don't do is lie to you and give you panic attacks.

Long story short, he went on and on saying about how he changed because of the way I treated and talked to him, about how I don't listen or agree with what he says and how I make him feel stupid, etc, basically blaming me for him changing from the loving caring person he used to be. He said "If you would just shut up sometimes --", to which I got PISSED about, my ex used to tell me to shut up all the time and he was abusive, so that triggered something in me, I got up from the couch and told him that's what my ex used to say, that pissed him off to no end, I ran to the room and tried closing the door but he didn't let me, he ran after me and shoved the door open, when he did that I fell to the bed (it wasn't hard, I just fell sitting down because I was trying to close the door when he opened it).
I was crying so it's kind of a blur, he said that maybe I should just shut my brain sometimes, so I said "Maybe I should die, then", to which he grabbed my arm and pinned me to the bed. It wasn't hard, it didn't even hurt, but I freaked out, because my abusive ex used to do that, so I screamed "DON'T TOUCH ME", and he let go, and I ran to the other side of the bed and cried.

I don't remember what else he said, I just remember crying and shouting "Leave, leave", so he left, a couple seconds later came back in to tell me he was leaving the house cuz he hated hearing me cry, and left again. I cried for a couple more minutes and put myself in a panic attack, started breathing really heavy and wanting to throw up. He came back inside the room cuz I guess he didn't wanna leave the house after all, I didn't hear most of what he said cuz I was gasping, I was sitting down on the floor against the wall, leaned over the trash can in case I vomited.
I remember hearing, "Are you scared of me? You know I would never hurt you"

After that he calmed down a lot, he brought me water and my inhaler, and sat by me until the panic attack passed.

After that, he went to the living room and I heard him typing on the computer. After a long while, he came back in the room, said he had written me a letter but he only wanted me to read it in the morning. He laid next to me, petted my hair and kissed me, and apologized for making me feel that way. Then he went to sleep on the couch.

This morning I read his letter, it wasn't that long, he said he wrote it because we couldn't talk in words, he didn't wanna fight anymore, it hurt. He said the fault lies on both of us, he recognizes he's done a lot to cause what is happening now, that he clams up, shuts down, and internalizes things, and he's talking to his therapist about it. He said he's scared to talk to me because we might fight, that I'm very smart but I'm too opinionated, that he feels stupid when he talks to me because he feels I don't value his opinions, and I'm too quick to come to a conclusion.
He said I assume he just doesn't wanna talk to me when that's not true, he does.
He says he's "on the outside looking in", and there's a lot he sees in me that I don't see, cuz he's got this outside perspective, and that he wants to help me become a better person but that I won't let him. He ended it with saying he really wants to be with me and have better communication with me.

I wrote him a response after a couple hours of thinking, it was longer, but I tried to be kind. I basically said that what he said about me also applies to him and he doesn't see it. He's also very hard headed and he doesn't listen. I listed some recurring problems I noticed us having ever since we started going out. The first is that he never trusts, believes, or agrees with anything I say. I listed several examples, one being that we fought for two whole semesters over this girl who had ulterior intentions with him, and he wouldn't believe me until it was too late and she made me lose my job. He can't even trust me on the validity of a website I used for years - he had to google it and read reviews and refused to try it until he "found out for himself". Even stuff that I have extensive knowledge in (I worked with social organizations and groups for human rights for four years, for example), he refutes everything I say and acts like I have no credibility. He used to always play devil's advocate and try arguing with me about every. single. topic. we ever talked about. Even after I proved several times that I can have credibility and he can trust the stuff I say or vouch for, it doesn't matter, he still doesn't trust me and always refutes me. I asked, how are we supposed to have a strong bond and good communication if you always think I'm wrong, if I can't be trusted, or you always have to double-check what I say because to you it has no credibility? So I told him, I don't know how subconscious this is, but I have the strong feeling that you put yourself above me and you think you know more than me.
So when he says he wants to improve me, like he's got all the answers, I feel offended and angry, because I feel like he's full of himself, and he thinks only his way is the right way. This is the second recurring issue. I listed some examples, I just don't want to make this longer than it already is. Even if we had a breakthrough conversation where he would admit he was doing something wrong, a week would go by and he'd go right back to the same behavior, as if the conversation never happened. And what's worse, if something doesn't go the way he wants, he sulks and clams up and distances himself from me. So I told him, it's not enough that I agree with you in some things; you want me to agree with you in ALL things, and if there isn't a quick enough change, you get mad and shut me out and sulk. He does that.

In the end I told him he just doesn't like being proven wrong or being disagreed with, and that's why he feels stupid. I did agree to listen to him more and think more before I speak, but I don't feel that will be enough. I try not to be mean, but I needed to tell him he's arrogant because he always thinks he's right and he's better than everybody and he's got all the answers while everyone else doesn't or isn't on the same level as him. He already told me in the past that he thinks he's smarter than most people and he believes people are inherently bad. I'm the opposite, I believe people are either inherently good or a blank slate, until they're taught otherwise. This was a fight we had recently, because he thinks so poorly of everybody else, and I try to explain human psychology to him and he just shuts me out. But to him, I'M shutting him out.
I said I wish we could see each other as having different and new kinds of knowledge to be shared rather than fighting about it because we don't believe what the other says (him mostly).
I listed examples on things I agreed with him in the past, but I could only think of things he agreed with me on after a lot of fighting and when he absolutely could not disagree anymore (like with the girl and her intentions).

So I told him this is not a one-way street, he can't expect me to listen to everything he says and do things his way "because it's the best way", while he completely ignores me and thinks everything I say is wrong.

I feel like he really does see me as his inferior, he's always talking about how he can improve me, but he doesn't seem to see how arrogant he is.

Am I just perceiving things wrong here? Am I really the problem?

I just don't know anymore, and I'm so confused.

I think you will forever be beating your head against the wall in this relationship.

Sorry just how I see it from all your posts.

I agree with Christina. It sounds like this cycle will never end. *hugs*

:/

I'm really hoping the issues we have can be worked out.
It's not an abusive relationship, we just have trouble communicating.

In my book, that is something that can be improved on.

in 12-step programs this would be called "taking each other's inventory" which is definitely not recommended i.e. listing each other's flaws. i think if you learn to make "i" statments rather than "you" statements you will have much better communication. as it is between you two now this is quite toxic. there's a book called nonviolent communication that talks about this as well. are you in any therapy? that might be a good thing to do. if you can't afford it you could try a 12-step group instead.

Thank you, this was a very helpful reply.

I am not in therapy but I plan on being as soon as possible.

I want to read more books about this and have healthier communication habits.

What is a 12-step group, and where can I find one?

12-step groups are like alcoholics anonymous. they have them for just about everything. maybe look into co-dependents anonymous as that deals with relationships. here is a list of lots of 12-step programs. at the meetings people just donate a dollar or two per meeting if they can so it is great option if you can't afford much. i did adult children of alcoholics even though i wasn't from an alcoholic home and found it incredibly helpful.

And that's a real possibility. You'd know better, than us.

There's marriage builders, that has oodles of articles, to be read. There's talk of I v. You statements there, if I recall. 12 steps also have online material and books, to work through between meetings and therapy. Adult child work can be found through al anon. A dysfunctional home of origin, can impact us. If there's no co dep local, adult child works.
Relationships are 50/50. His statement of what he's working on, in therapy, glimmers light, imo.
Your reactions, are as crucial as his communication.
Anger work throughs, John Lee's 'Facing the Fire' hits home. Anger inside, can affect life, much as aggressive outwards acting anger, good to work through tapping into resentment.
There's much, if both parties focus on themselves, before ripping apart their love lives.
Time will tell. And working now, on you, if the relationship survives or not, you'll be well and less likely to repeat patterns.
Takes time, be patient.

Thank you.

This made me feel better.

For an update, we had one more rocky patch after I posted this thread, but he came home at night and we agreed to just chill for a bit and feel calm and happy before attempting to talk.

We both agreed that we have things to work on and we need to be humble and accepting of the other's opinions.
Yesterday we had a nice talk, we didn't get angry at each other and I felt like we could understand each other a bit better.

I think he gets more tired of talks than I do, and he feels exhausted easier than I do.

You're all right, this is something that will take a while.

But I don't want to give up, and I want to have hope.

Things feel better today than they did before.

Sometimes to get rid of the elephant in the room, behaviors change, then readdressing the past can occur. Yet, harping on what's done, doesn't help moving forward. The elephant in the room is a metaphor for something drastic that has occurred and it's a wedge between each other. Words are usually said, surrounding that issue. To release the resentment is to see from a point forward that communication methods shifted. Not overnight.

Baby steps.

My heart goes out to you. This sounds like so much stress. You received a lot of good advice above. Best wishes.

I think I see what you mean.

You mean to say that we shouldn't dwell on the past, right?

And we should focus on moving forward?

I'm a bit confused. I feel like while it's important to move forward, we should also try to fix the problems we have now. Which might sometimes require talking about past actions.

Yes and no. Cannot expect your past with him, to disappear. But revisiting that, before you are both communicating better, before the unfilled needs are filled, won't go far. Takes months to get there.

Ok.
I think I understand what you are saying.

I'm thinking about trying to attend the same therapist he is seeing, when I make some more money, so she can work on both of us at the same time, and we can improve our communication.

Thank you.

One of the best relationships I've been involved in, didn't involve shared counseling to show us how to communicate, but bringing forth skills learned plus lessons learned about self introspection through our own therapy, support group and self work.

Sometimes navigating our own fears and triggers while trying to bring about healthy relationship behaviors, you can actually see your partner trying, too. Parent ourselves, so to speak. It's actually pretty cool, to notice. Builds trust and strength. Guess, that's why I've seen many promote individual counseling prior to couples.

Is it, communicating or is it trust? Vulnerability? Fight/flight? Feeling unheard? Dismissed? And a few other unmet needs, I've seen in the postings?

I'm sorry, I should've been clearer; I didn't mean shared or couple's counseling. I just meant have my own personal counseling sessions with the same therapist my boyfriend is having his sessions with. Not together, but separate.
I thought that might've been a good idea so that way she would know what's going on with both of us, and they did mention that eventually they would like to see us together anyway, but not until after some individual sessions.

I've been planning on seeing a free therapist at my university when classes start, but I've been really debating paying to see my boyfriend's counselor so that we wouldn't have separate therapists.

I definitely understand the need to work on the self first, before working on a relationship. You need to be happy and healthy yourself before you try to fix something else.
I REALLY want to work on myself with a therapist, specially because there are so many topics about me that aren't directly related to my relationship, too. Like childhood trauma and etc.

It's a bit of everything, really.
He broke my trust because he lied to me.
But he says the communication problems started even before then - he says that's actually what caused his lying.
But we REALLY started having problems after he lied.

Definitely a lot of unmet needs. So far, we've both expressed that we feel unheard, misunderstood, and dismissed. This confuses me, a little.

For me, a big problem is also our sexual lives. He NEVER wants to have sex. If I don't initiate it, it rarely ever happens.
I'm not pushy and I don't force him to do anything. As a result, we haven't had sex in months.
Even when we do, he can't finish, or he won't be able to stay up.

I'm not sure if it's all mental or if he has some underlying physical illness un-diagnosed. He's only 28 - this isn't normal.