[hvert]

Maybe someday I will figure out when it is appropriate to just say no and forget about something. I hope!

I joined what I thought was a social club, without doing a lot of research ahead of time. The membership application had a place where you could check off areas of interest for committee participation. I stupidly checked some off and wound up being signed up for those committees.

Long story short, I wish I hadn't signed up before I went to my first meeting. The people were nice enough, but much, much older. It's a senior citizen's club. I am the only person under 70.

Now one committee wants to meet before the next social meeting and another committee wants to meet after. One of the committees wants to meet to discuss when we can have our next meeting! I suggested we decide that via email, but no one responded.

I just wanted to go to lectures and have coffee with people who had the same interests. I don't really want to devote more time to this group. I am mildly interested in some of their volunteer projects, but I really shouldn't be committing to more unpaid work. I don't see this group broadening my social or professional network.

I am tempted to just tell them that my work schedule has changed and I can no longer make their middle-of-the-workday meetings or participate in any committees.

Why is it so hard for me to do this? I really don't get it sometimes.

[~Christina]

I think how your feeling is typical and normal to be honest.. You expected people more your age and they are not , Apparently they aren't the emailing type which means more time just planning things. They also don't fit into the age and professional areas you would like them to.

I would use the reason being work issues must come first.. Maybe just stick to one that is of most interest to you.

Just hop off the guilt train now... I think damn near all of us over extend ourselves at time.

[hvert]

Thank you -- I really overthink this stuff. I like the idea of getting off of the guilt train

What's especially aggravating is that they used email to schedule the meeting to discuss when we would have our next meeting. Why not just pick out the 'real' meeting time then and there?!

[Rose76]

These sound like folks with a lot of time on their hands. There would be nothing wrong with just calling and saying that something "came up" and that you have to bow out for now. You could use the work excuse you describe. Don't feel bad. Actually, you don't owe them any excuse, but I know it can feel awkward. Give yourself credit for at least checking the group out. Check other things out, and you'll eventually find something that clicks with you.

[ifst5]

It's quite simple really - you feel guilt over committing to something you hadn't quite thought through so to leave this people hanging as it were seems irresponsible. The fact of the matter is, you're not able to meet the requirements of the group and the sooner you get out the easier it will be to explain and there will be less disappointment all round. Lesson learnt

[Rose3]

No need to feel guilty. So keep it simple - just say that you are not able to continue (for maybe work reasons, or personal reasons).

[hvert]

Thank you all! I feel better about dropping out of this group now. It still feels awkward, but once I do it, I will forget about it.

[Little Lulu]

You know hvert, the best thing you have done in relationship to this issue is to talk it out and come up with a good solution before you just jump in and create a worse situation. Like Christina said, we all get over extended or commit to something we end up not enjoying. What we do next is what matters most. Kudos to you for being gracious.

[StuckinRut]

In my view you could just explain the truth of the situation, which is that you don't want to get involved in the organisation of this group. If you feel that you also don't want to join their social events, then again I think it would be simplest just to tell the truth, i.e. that it isn't quite what you are looking for. I don't think that should offend anyone. You really have nothing to feel guilty about

[hvert]

I really failed at extricating myself. Honestly, there is something just wrong with me with regard to stuff like this -- it's like I am ambivalent about what I want or what my motivations are, so I just keep heading down these paths even though I am pretty sure that I don't really want to be on them.

[Rose76]

If fear of disappointing other people is what is keeping you in this commitment that you want to be out of, then you need to consider becoming a little bit ruthless. I always recoiled from that, myself, but found that what I used to consider being "ruthless" is actually a necessary stance to take once in a while, if I'm going to "own" my own life.

We can never have enough foresight to make sure we never never ever make offers that we end up regretting. That's why humans have the ability to change their minds. We have to distinguish between what is a real hard contractual obligation that honor demand we meet and what is merely something that seemed like a better idea than it turned out to be. You're being too hard on yourself, hvert. An ill-advised offer to help out on a committee at a social club is not a moral obligation. You have an obligation to yourself to use your time in ways meaningful for you.

[hvert]

You are right -- and it all sounds good on paper, but when it comes to making myself carry through, it's another matter entirely. I not only did not extricate myself from the group, but I have now agreed to help with something in a very specific way. It's only a few hours worth of work, but I am still massively annoyed with myself for doing this.

It's like I think I have to do things for people in order to be liked -- even though I don't really care if these people like me or not. Really, I don't get it - it's like having two parts of my brain, a rational side that sees this thing logically and thinks 'oh, this is not for you, just say no,' and another part that actually does the talking for me...

I've heard good things about 'when I say no, I feel guilty' so I think I will look for that in the library or order a copy.

[ManOfConstantSorrow]

Well you seem to have been rather ambushed, which is a wee bit naughty although in my experience most groups struggle to find people to take on important roles and might therefore tend to pounce on the unsuspecting.

However you first responsibility must be to yourself.

If you really cannot bring yourself to get out now, at least set a time limit of say three months and make this clear.

[Rose76]

Originally Posted by hvert

You are right -- and it all sounds good on paper, but when it comes to making myself carry through, it's another matter entirely.

You have a good understanding of the problem, which is a good place to make a beginning. Here's what I think it comes down to: You are a sensitive person very aware of other people's feelings. You hate to do anything that you think will cause others to be disappointed. So you've gone through life doing things you don't really want to do because you think that is what it takes to be able to consider yourself a nice person. Still, at some level, you see that this is not entirely fair to you. Problem is how to overcome this.

Sometimes we just have to force ourselves to do something that goes against our habitual nature. That can be hard. The good news, however, is that it gets easier the more you do it. What seems hard right now will actually make your life easier in the long run.

It might also be helpful to mentally investigate where this people-pleasing tendency came from. Childhood would be a good place to look. As a child, were you very invested emotionally in pleasing adults and/or peers? I'll bet you were. Maybe your parents were that way. Maybe it suited their agenda to make you that way. There is definitely a long history from way back when that explains this tendency you have. That's why it's such a big deal to try and approach life differently.

[lilypup]

I would look for other opportunities to volunteer and meet people...then check them out before you commit. Then I would call the head of your group or committee and say "Bob, I am so sorry, I have overextended myself...I am now volunteering with the food bank. Between it all I need to give up this group." Then you wouldn't be lying.
Personally, however, I'd just say some big lie like my mom was sick and I couldn't go anymore.

[ptangptang]

Don't over complicate it. Just tell them the truth.

[StuckinRut]

I completely understand what you say. I do much the same. In my case I think it relates back to the problem I have with my parents. I was always the one to placate them, mediate between them and resolve their various issues. In my view the toxic parent situation can only occur if the "child" puts their needs below those of the parent. For this reason the parent must condition the "child" to believe that their needs are less important, or even unimportant. They do this by making the "child" fear the consequences of not pleasing them. I now hate any form of conflict and do everything possible to avoid conflicting with anyone, particularly if the person if forceful (i.e. assumes the role that I associate with a parent).

I think you should try to assert yourself more. If you don't want to do something say so. This is not something that should offend someone. We are all free to make choices in our lives. If you don't do this people will take advantage. Unfortunately that's human nature. Oddly if you assert yourself people respect you more and treat you better whereas if you don't they will slowly lose respect for you and eventually treat you badly. To be honest this is a concept that I am struggling to grasp myself, but I know it is true.

[healingme4me]

I've oft found myself fearful of the overextending of myself. Oddly, my former marriage broke me of that. He, my ex, was big on pointing out that others had a tendency to take advantage of me. Toss in a few choice depreciating names, like gullible, and voila.
Yes, you checked off a few choices, for volunteering, at the same time, doesn't sound like you meant effective immediately and do all the work.
How long is this couple hours, of hesitated obligation to last?
Forms for new members really should come with a disclaimer, 'may have future interest'. How do you really know you want to help, when you are new to the group?
Stinks because you didn't know how many hours and at what capacity you wanted involvement in the first place.

[hvert]

I think the couple of hours will really only last a couple of hours -- maybe five -- and I am just going to back away from the second committee, which would be much, much more work. I am also taking a step back from my inclination to overcomplicate things by doing them the 'right' way.

To be less vague - this organization has no website, no marketing materials, and is trying to create a dataset that another non-profit will use in a smartphone app. I have a background in IT, an MBA, and a few years ago started writing smartphone apps.

So I feel a little jumped on. I am happy to offer guidance and explain things. I am really worried about getting sucked into doing a ton of work for free. People who aren't familiar with technology (like the people I've met so far in this group) have no idea how long it actually takes to create a nice looking website or pretty promotional materials-- and once the non-profit finds out how much it will cost them to create the smartphone app they've described, I'm pretty sure that project will be abandoned.

And, yes, you nailed it that this is related to my childhood. I had a narcissistic addict father and a martyr mother (narcissistic in her own way). I was a definite people pleaser growing up. It's like I was doomed to wind up this way. When I say no to people, or feel like saying no, I worry that I am like my father. When I say yes, I worry that I am martyring myself. I have no idea what normal looks like.

What makes this even more frustrating is that I sometimes don't take advantage of opportunities or get close to people because I am worried that they will ask me for something and I will say yes when I don't want to. I am not sure if that really makes sense -- it's like my inability to say no affects what I say yes to.

But it is true, I shouldn't overcomplicate this and I should just start practicing no, even if it feels like I am being selfish.

[Rose76]

It makes a lot of sense to me. Having parents like that creates a lot of anxiety, which seems to be relieved by trying to live up to some impossibly hard ideal of "giving." Only the striving never puts you in a totally safe place, so the striving just gets double-downed on. My early experience in life involved a bit of the same dynamics.

You have great insight. That alone does not neutralize this pattern of behavior. That's why therapy doesn't fix this. It's like the behavior has to change first, so then the mind can follow. That's hard to talk yourself into.

A certain amount of "selfishness" is healthy. Otherwise, other people drain you. I had a retinue of people who would call me or get together with me to extract attention that made them feel better. I told myself that I was building social-connectedness. But I felt so used. Finally, as my own unmet needs escalated, I snapped and started cutting these folks off. It felt like I was being unbelievably mean. But I would not go back to the way it was. Still I can relapse into that pattern in a heartbeat.

[StuckinRut]

Regarding the work on the app, perhaps you could detail what you will do before you begin. That would set boundaries, so that the task does not expand as time goes on and they think of new things to add. I understand what you say, people sometimes are not aware of how much work goes into delivering such things.

From the way you analyse your behaviour and how it impacts others you really don't sound like a selfish person to me . In any case I think there is a difference between being true to yourself and being selfish.

[hvert]

I like the way you described the users, 'extract attention.' For years, I thought there was something wrong with me because every 3 years or so I would suddenly dislike all of my friends. I would see them all as self-absorbed bores or incessant talkers or users.

I always thought the problem was my perception, but I finally realized it was the relationships I cultivated.

I am doing a better job on the friend front, but I still have a long way to go. I feel like I am at the point now where I can observe these things I am doing and dislike them, but not yet completely ready to act on it. It's so absurd - I struggle to say no when someone I don't really like asks me to go out for breakfast. I'm doing it, though, most of the time

[healingme4me]

Your family of origin dynamics, also, sounds familiar for me. It took me the longest to pin point both parents, as I couldn't quite understand dad's personality due to a decade long separation between him and myself. And had to recognize my mom's as more style than disorder. A matyr, for sure, how often did I ever hear other's say, '**** you're a saint. You should be sainted, etc'

I noticed you mentioned a book, I haven't read. 'When I say No, I feel guilty. ', if anything may add that to my wishlist. Which i tend to conquer. ..
I hope the demonination reference isn't too troubling, but one book I really seemed to click with, reading, was no more christian nice girl. It was a couple years ago, it definitely helped me.
I agree about how therapy itself not really getting to the heart of these types of affinities. Probably just not enough hours in the day. Plus, I find it's just a trait that one has to really, really want to adjust.
Not book related, but something else, from another support group, years back, that stood out. Reflect and ask, what's my own personal motivation? Why am I saying yes?

[hvert]

Oh boy! I never thought of asking myself why I am saying yes! That is a really good idea! It would never even occur to me to question the yes -- it seems like yes is the default and to say no is the aberration.

I find it grating at this point when people tell me how nice my mother is. Yes, she is, but she also isn't. Some people, like her children, have to pay for her niceness. No wonder I don't want to accept favors or help from anyone!

I just ordered the When I Say No, I Feel Guilty, the No More Christian Nice Girl, and another one that turned up in the list of suggestions, something about Boundaries. I'm up for anything that has good ideas as this behavior is extremely limiting at this point. I will let you know if they are worth reading