[Patagonia]

I've been married for 20 yrs. We have 3 small children. We're both in our mid to late 40's, we had children 11 yrs into our marriage so I guess we're "old."
I've had trouble w/severe depression w/psy behavior, csa, SI since I was a teenager. PTSD in the past 2 yrs & just had a recent od attempt 2 months ago. So now you have background.

My question seems simple...to me. When I say something serious, something that can be provoking that I'd like to discuss or get feedback on or something negative when I'm depressed, to my H, I keep getting the same answers. They are:
"Well, Patagonia, I don't know how to answer that." Or
"Well, Patagonia, how would you like me to answer that."

What I hear is, " these are stupid thoughts, (heavy sigh) I don't wanto talk about it bec it's hard, & I know it'll upset you, it's upsetting me, so I don't wanto bother w/a conversation w/you. Please stop. This has gone on for over 20 yrs, I'm really tired of it. Can't you get better by now & be normal."

So I feel shot down, rejected & asked not to discuss my feelings. I know it does upset him. He just says he doesn't know what to say, but gee after 20 yrs I thought by now he'd have some idea.
I think he tired. Very tired of me & extremely tired of my illness. He has mentioned a couple of times that he'd like the "old" me to come back to the family.
I feel like I have no one. I thought I could always turn to him for help, that he'd be there for me. Now I feel abandoned.

[nicoleflynn]

Have you considered counseling? Either he doesnt understand or he Does NOT want to understand.

[Patagonia]

Yes. We've done couples counseling. He also sees his own T as do I.

[IceCreamKid]

"I feel like I have no one. I thought I could always turn to him for help, that he'd be there for me. Now I feel abandoned."

Have you discussed this -- specifically -- recently with your counselor and the couples counselor?

If not, I think it is time; time to explore what you want from your marriage for the next 20 years--and beyond.

[Open Eyes]

Hi Patagonia, I am sorry you are struggling this way, unfortunately, it is a common challenge where a person struggling with PTSD has needs that family and spouses don't understand and the answer they get is "I don't know or I can't help you" or yes, even expressing the desire for you to be your old self again.

You have actually been a person that was at risk for developing PTSD, but it was never your fault and no, you did not even know it. People who experience "trauma" or neglect of somekind in their childhood can experience growing challenges as they get older where they experience "anxiety" and "bouts of depression" too.

Our brains do develop over time and so many of our experiences growing up go into our subconscious mind. We are designed to develop deeply set skills when we do or experience something over and over again. At first learning to take a pencil and actually write the letters A-Z are hard, however, as we "practice" learning how to write these letters, we develop our ability to remember "how" and finally we can just write it without really thinking about it. However, if a person grows up watching and hearing their parents always fighting and seeing them angry in someway, that person will also learn how to develop skills of just getting to learn in some way to expect that and that is supposed to be how parents are supposed to behave, just like the A-Z letters are shaped. As we are "experiencing and doing every day" while we grow up, we can learn dysfunctional behaviors "unknowingly" because we see them "over and over" just like we slowly write the A-Z letters.

Here is another example of "imprinting". I had a student that I was teaching and this little girl insisted on "I need to stop and rest for a moment, I am tired" and she expressed all the body language of "physical/mental exhaustion" too. I never had that challenge before the way this little girl was doing with me. When I talked to her mother, her mother explained that she was not very "athletic" and was more on the "lazy" side. It was a challenge to teach this little girl. However, one day I found out "why" Patagonia. It was because her mother had breast cancer and while she was raising this little girl, she was going through treatment and she was "constantly" telling this little girl, "I am tired, I need to rest now for a bit". That is how this little girl imprinted so deeply what she had been doing with me and her mother did not even realize had happened.

Often when a woman or even a man experiences some kind of "trauma" as a child they learn to develop coping skills, but they learn it as a deep set "skill" that they don't realize. Often they go on developing and managing even though they might be "missing" something. For a woman who experienced "csa", they develop coping skills and ways of "avoiding" they don't realize. Often what happens is they function even though they experienced "trauma" and then when they have their own child where they will tap onto their own child development because that is what we all do when we are thinking about "doing something", a woman "can" then develop "depression and ptsd" symtoms.

With PTSD, our subconscious mind will kick in without our really consciously realizing it, with a desire to "avoid" any reminders of "trauma". However, what many do not realize is a lot of the "depression or anxiety" they might experience is also because of this too. Along with these "memories" or "deep subconsious messages/skills" are "emotions" too, because we do store emotions along with everything we learn that goes into our subconscious programming.

What my guess is what is taking place with you is that now that you have your own little family, you are tapping onto your own childhood "family dysfunction" and with that you are remembering some of the "deep emotional" challenges you had during that time as well. This is something that "can" challenge a lot of people and it is without their really realizing it too. It may not be as challenging as what is called "complex PTSD", however, it can present as symptoms of "anxiety, or depression" that are constant, or, come and go. And, when your husband says he doesn't know how to help you with this, it isn't because he doesn't "care" to help you, it really does mean "he just doesn't know how" and gets frustrated because of that, not because "you" are in anyway a bad person or are "unworthy" or are "at fault". It really is very much like my challenge when I was trying to teach that child that was expressing behaviors that I did not quite know how to deal with or "fix". Once I learned about her mother, it really did make sense, that is when I was able to design a method of helping this child learn to overcome that ongoing habit she was presenting to me. Patagonia?, I have seen so many variations of this in my years of teaching children too. The "truth" is, I did not "just" teach different children how to ride, I worked on each child's "learning how to learn and develop their own sense of self esteem" and they all had different "needs" that their own parents did not even realize either.

Patagonia, as you know "I" have been challenged with PTSD that turned into "complex PTSD" too. My husband wants me to be "my old self" too. My challenges have been much like your challenges, even the desire to "give up" completely. I did not know "why" I was so crippled with this challenge either and "yes" it is extremely confusing and "lonely". Also, what is hard about it is how the "emotions" are so incredibly "sensitive" too. I withdrew because of this "extreme" emotional challenge, let's face it, it is embarassing and the person stuggling doesn't understand it, and the typical reaction from others around them is the exact opposite of the much "needed" support that a person struggling deserves to have as is the case with any "injury".

The bottom line is that you "can't" be your old self completely, instead it is time to finally "heal" that old self that carried burdens and deep set "dysfunctional skills" that is really not "your fault or mine fault", just like what that little girl I taught was showing me that really was "not her fault" either. And I want you to think about that little girl every time you "self blame" too, because you really need to know, whatever challenge "is" there, is really "not your fault".

In your "healing" journey you will slowly "learn" to see different things you somehow learned to do to avoid being "hurt" or "stressed" somehow. It is very much like sitting down with a therapist and writing out the A-Z alphabet to see what letters you did not learn to write right somehow correctly, and the reason for that is because of how you just happened to learn or be taught over and over again to write a letter differently somehow. (Remember that little girl and what she was doing). "First" you have to identify the letter and see "how" you did not learn it right, THEN, you need to see how it is done right and PRACTICE doing that until your brain and you can slowly "learn" how to slowly change the way you write that letter. Along with that is also "slowly" developing yourself "emotionally" too. This really "does" take time, however, with good therapy, and time a person struggling "can" make "gains" and slowly manage their own private challenges "better and better". With the right help, what also slowly begins to change is that challenging desire to "check out of life" too. As you make progress, you will slowly understand that when that dark desire took place, you had only "hit bottom" and that was when you needed to "stop and get help" and take baby steps towards "healing" with help.

One of the things I would like to do is find a way to explain this to the family members that don't understand this and how to actually "be" more supportive as the one they love is trying to "heal". These individuals can be taught what "not" to say to the person that is struggling and instead learn to say "healing" things. For example, saying to someone struggling that you want them to somehow "be their old self" should not be said. Instead, when a person is struggling take a few minutes and just sit and listen as needed, and rub their back in a caring comforting way and say, "it's ok, you are trying, I can see that, I am here, just keep trying and learning one day at a time, we can get through this, you can get through this, it just takes time, be patient. What would help your husband is to understand "he" can't truely "fix" you, all "he" can do is be patient and supportive while you work on your "healing" and slowly finding the A-Z areas that you unknowing learned how to make letters in ways that were not "helpful" to you. To be supportive with that "it's ok" you can learn how to slowly see them and slowly "change" that a little at a time and actually be "a better person" and not the "old person".

You can share this with your husband too if you think it might help. Not every letter from A-Z in you is bad or wrong you know, and whatever ones are bad (like that little girl) are not your fault either.

(((Caring Hugs)))
OE

[ifst5]

It could be that he just genuinely doesn't know what to do or say anymore - 20 years and a lot of difficulties can lead to that sort of thing. But he has no right to say; 'I want the old you back.' You're NOT the old you anymore; you've raised a family, you've had to deal with your own personal issue as well as the ones within your marriage and it sounds like you've had to do a lot of it inwardly and by yourself. You have every right to feel supported and validated. I don't know whether re-framing your sort of questions would help, like; 'This is really concerning me and as i want to be a better person i'd really appreciate your input.' But if you're already doing that and couples counselling isn't setting things straight either i think you need to have a really serious talk with him. I mean at the end of the day this issue is serious enough for you to have come on the internet seeking advice so maybe it's time to sit him down, acknowledge that things have been difficult for a long time but that the only way for things to improve and to continue improving is to work together - you can't be expected to keep facing tough issues alone. That's not what marriage is about. I hope you can successfully readjust your expectations of each other - you need to know the right time to approach him for specific problems and he needs to know when his input is genuinely desired and when he needs to supportive at more of a distance. Good luck to you both.

[Patagonia]

Thank you so much everyone for your answers. I've really thought about them for awhile & tried to look at my H more closely & what he sees happening. Trying to b objective.

I know that he's hurt & that I've caused him a great deal of hurt. He doesn't think that's fair. That he doesn't deserve that. He's become the "parent" in this relationship & I'm the "child". He said it's not his job to be constantly worried about me & whether I'm going to take my own life. He also thinks that if I do that, that I'm saying "eff you, I'm scared. I'm out of here." That makes him very angry bec that puts 3 children into just his 2 hands. We're not a team.

I know this bec, & I'm not proud to say, that I've read his journal his T has asked him to keep. I think it's a good place to put his anger that's directed to me.
What hurt the most was when he said "...I know u were hurt by the csa when you were young, but does it have to ruin our lives?"
That remark has left me speechless.

[HockingPastryChef]

Awe... I don't know what's like being in your place but I do see a two sided situation here. Both sides have their good reasons for the behaviors. I agree that counceling would be a good choice on helping you two cope better with this pain. I would help you to provide more support towards yourself and help him learn to cope with someone with depression.