[lovefromdover]

I'd like to ask your opinion on indirect communication.

How do you feel about it, are you annoyed by it (in which situations, how often)? I'd much appreciate examples if that's alright with your emotional sphere.

[Webgoji]

Uh, well ... it's something everyone does constantly. People's body language and actions also are often different than their verbal communication. Someone might speak nicely about someone, but roll their eyes when that other person speaks. Indirectly they're saying that the other person is annoying them.

For example, Mrs. Webgoji will bemoan that she loves being out in public and doing things with me with her friends and such. But the instant we're in public with a group of people, she forgets I'm there and interacts with her friends, neglecting me.

I'm immensely annoyed by conflicting verbal and non-verbal communication. Say what you do and do what you say. Otherwise, you're just lying.

[baseline]

Do texts count as indirect communications? If they do I am annoyed that people would rather text happy birthday, i love you, etc. Are they afraid that they would then have to actually care about the answer? where is the human connection anymore? sorry i am cranky this morning!!!

I'm finding it extremely important for me to pick up more quickly just what these "indirect communication" clues are. I think I have problems reading peoples expressions and body language. People can say all kinds of things, but if something is amiss with the connection of words and what they are doing I get confused. Good example is rolling of eyes. Texting is the worst way of communication in my opinion, you easily get confused. A person could think you are being rude if you don't add a smiley to show your mood. I've heard relationships are something like 90 percent body language and much less about actual words. I don't know, because words have always effected me hugely.

I find it hard to read fake sympathy, caring, compassion. My counselor seems to annoy me this way. I don't know if it seems patronizing or what it is, but only once did she hug me. A few times I get a handshake, but she is cold and limp, and I've always been taught to give a firm handshake. I find very slight barely touching, wet fish type handshakes to make me seem like I'm disliked.

I'd love new technology in many ways, and really hate it in others. I find it immature for adults to be around a table in a coffee shop and texting others instead of talking with each other. It will be a much less "real" world soon.. the youngest ones being affected the most. I think it makes for a much colder generation in the works

[lovefromdover]

Originally Posted by Webgoji

it's something everyone does constantly.

Let's stick to the above for a while.

Everyone, in my opinion, is just about anyone, so this also includes me. Let's make an experiment, I will reply to all three comments posted here and you will write your opinion on how I responded and what was my motivation.

Me: Thank you Webgoji, Baseline and Needarealitycheck for your comments, I really appreciate that and would like to continue discussion on indirect communication.

[Crazy Hitch]

My example would be finding out information from a 3rd party regarding something someone has done or said to them but hasn't been ballysey enough to say it straight out to my face.

[lovefromdover]

Originally Posted by Hooligan

My example would be finding out information from a 3rd party regarding something someone has done or said to them but hasn't been ballysey enough to say it straight out to my face.

Indirect threat, yes, that is indirect communication. Presented to someone before informing third party about something. Otherwise it's just gossip.

[Big_Bear]

I struggle with indirect communication in my relationship. My g/f tells me she loves me, im one in a million and she is passionate about me; however, her actions are different. She is distant and when I try to rough house, fool around or be passionate her actions tell me she is not interested. She kisses than pulls away or pushes away. This makes me feel insecure and awkward. It makes me feel like im doing something wrong and im not good enough. This has interfered with our relationship and my ability to communicate. Especially because im dealing with my own insecurity, anxiety and "adult child" like issues myself. I feel like I don't matter, and she smokes a lot of weed and I don't like it when she is high, I believe it takes away from the intellectual interaction. She has now been diagnosed with auto-immune disease and instead of talking or accepting anything she has seemed to become more distant. I know I have my issues and Im preparing to go talk to a therapist, but whenever her and I try to talk things out she don't communicate. She just shrugs her shoulders and tells me im freaking myself out. I dunno what to do or how to communicate with her.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Big_Bear

I struggle with indirect communication in my relationship. My g/f tells me she loves me, im one in a million and she is passionate about me; however, her actions are different. She is distant and when I try to rough house, fool around or be passionate her actions tell me she is not interested. She kisses than pulls away or pushes away. This makes me feel insecure and awkward. It makes me feel like im doing something wrong and im not good enough. This has interfered with our relationship and my ability to communicate. Especially because im dealing with my own insecurity, anxiety and "adult child" like issues myself. I feel like I don't matter, and she smokes a lot of weed and I don't like it when she is high, I believe it takes away from the intellectual interaction. She has now been diagnosed with auto-immune disease and instead of talking or accepting anything she has seemed to become more distant. I know I have my issues and Im preparing to go talk to a therapist, but whenever her and I try to talk things out she don't communicate. She just shrugs her shoulders and tells me im freaking myself out. I dunno what to do or how to communicate with her.

I think you might be unfair to her.

I know several people with MS, one person with Lupus, etc. These diagnoses are life changing, plus, there are many different approaches to try. In the case of MS, life in a wheelchair might be on the not-so-distant horizon. Getting that dx is a truly challenging experience because the prospect of limitations clashes with the hopes and dreams that had been developed before the illness was diagnosed.

Those two things that you are comparing as if there were on the same level - your anxieties and insecurities and her newly dx'd autoimmune disorder. For the purposes of the discussion, let me use the example of MS.

Most people have insecurities. A whole lot of folks have anxieties. One does not die from them, does not become bedridden and does not need a service dog.

Your gf, with MS, might end up in a wheelchair, might end up unable to mother children, and might eventually need a specially trainer service dog. Her limitations would have to inform academic and professional choices, affect travel, etc.

It is a major major battle. And you are using her as a barometer of your good-enough-ness (if she pulls away, you interpret that gesture as a negative assessment of yourself and that you are not good enough). It is too much to put on a person who was recently diagnosed with MS. Not only does she need to think of what will happen to her, she has to make sure that your fragile psyche is not injured by her less-than-enthusiastic reaction. In other words, you are asking her to perform in a role that is simply way too demanding, and asking her to do that is unfair to her.

If she smokes weed, it might be to lessen the pain. Smoking weed is common among MS sufferers. And/or she might like the high as it lets her escape thinking about the crushing diagnosis.

Going back to the topic of the thread - you might be misinterpreting her signals. She may not have the guts to tell you outright that your comparing your insecurities and her MS is outrageous (if that is what you verbalized to her), that your attempts at roughhousing manifest your inability to pick up on subtle cues of her distress and despair - cues that should have demonstrated that roughhousing is not appropriate, but say, putting some beautiful and somewhat sad music on is appropriate, or, giving her a very gentle hug WITHOUT EXPECTING RECIPROCATION is appropriate, but not roughhousing, because roughhousing is done with an expectation of reciprocation, and she does not feel like reciprocating but does not want to hurt your feelings so she does not say it straight.

OK, I realize that it is harsh, but I am yet to see another post in which insecurities and MS are paired up so nonchalantly. Do you even realize what it is for a young woman to receive a dx that may mean that she would not be able to have children?? What roughhousing are you even talking about?

You wrote "instead of accepting anything" as if:
1) it is no big deal and a piece of cake to accept a diagnosis that radically challenges your plans and dreams, possibly reduces your life expectancy, crushes your hopes for having children one day
2) you of course would easily accept everything.

I am just so appalled. trying not to sound harsh, but, on the other hand, you asked for advice in the last sentence of your post, so here is the advice for you:

Tell her the truth. Tell her that you have no idea what she is going through.

And leave it at that. As a moment of truth. Without expectations, communications skills, direct or indirect but just as a moment of truth. She might appreciate it, and at least she won't be annoyed the way she is annoyed when you initiate roughhousing against the backdrop of what must have been huge neon-color letters that spell "LEAVE ME ALONE TO LICK MY WOUNDS AND DO NOT RUB SALT INTO THEM".

[Big_Bear]

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

I think you might be unfair to her.

OK, I realize that it is harsh, but I am yet to see another post in which insecurities and MS are paired up so nonchalantly. Do you even realize what it is for a young woman to receive a dx that may mean that she would not be able to have children?? What roughhousing are you even talking about?

You wrote "instead of accepting anything" as if:
1) it is no big deal and a piece of cake to accept a diagnosis that radically challenges your plans and dreams, possibly reduces your life expectancy, crushes your hopes for having children one day
2) you of course would easily accept everything.

I am just so appalled. trying not to sound harsh, but, on the other hand, you asked for advice in the last sentence of your post, so here is the advice for you:

Tell her the truth. Tell her that you have no idea what she is going through.

And leave it at that. As a moment of truth. Without expectations, communications skills, direct or indirect but just as a moment of truth. She might appreciate it, and at least she won't be annoyed the way she is annoyed when you initiate roughhousing against the backdrop of what must have been huge neon-color letters that spell "LEAVE ME ALONE TO LICK MY WOUNDS AND DO NOT RUB SALT INTO THEM".

Ok, I understand that I did not go at this right! So here is the breakdown so maybe you understand more that her Lupus Dx did not really negatively affect me.
My g/f and I started dating April of 2014, after about two months of dating I realized that she seemed very emotionless and that I didn't really feel like she cared or desired me as much as she says. We talked about this issue and she still never showed emotion, she would just get high. I would pour my heart out and she would not respond. I wanted her to show me with more than words sooooo bad....

August of 2014, her and I break up due to this issue and she believes im just being dramatic and insecure, I begin to miss her and feel guilty, we get back together....

October 15-21? My g/f goes to the doctor for a blister on her belly button and gets blood tests done, doctors say its most likely HSV...

Oct. 31st 2014, we disagree all day, I feel she is being more distant....

November 5th, 2014 my g/f gets a call from the doctor and the doctor informs her she might have lupus... but needs to see a specialist...

I could see myself with this woman forever, and I feel the love inside for her, and I try my best to show it! Her Lupus dx did not affect me, I was ready to take it on, willing to change lifestyles... I expressed this many times and even went shopping so we could start eating healthier.... her distance grew stronger, her lack of affection got worse, her smoking weed increased... I understand she is terrified and her dx can ruin her life, but that is not and never was the issue.... after her dx her sadness grew, her anxieties got worse, and her trust in me lessened....

I do everything I can, I know I am insecure and over think, but I would try and I just felt I never got the effort back, she never wanted to really let go and connect with me. She still had walls, before her lupus dx and now after the dx those walls thickened and grew taller.

Lupus isn't the issue, Lupus has only been a part of her and us for only 3 weeks... we have been a couple for 8 months.

[hamster-bamster]

Big_Bear - I hope you are not offended. I suggest that you visit the forum on this site that is dedicated to the issues of caregiving. You are not a caregiver, but people who are would be able to share their experiences and I am sure that there are people caring for SO's with autoimmune diseases. You would also get compassion and support on that forum, hearing from people who neglect meeting their own needs due to the pressures of caregiving. It would be an all-in-all good educational experience for you to browse that forum and maybe pop a question or two.

In RL, there might be support groups for MS sufferers and their SO's. That would be another, and possibly better, way to see how people deal with the challenges you are dealing with and will be dealing with much MORE if you stay with your gf. No offense, OK? I just wanted to say that MS is way worse than anxiety. I have anxiety and do not have MS and I am thankful - deeply thankful - for that. I would take anxiety over MS any time.

[lovefromdover]

Originally Posted by Big_Bear

and when I try to rough house

Could you explain what this means please?

[Big_Bear]

Originally Posted by lovefromdover

Could you explain what this means please?

Kind of wrestle around, laugh, have fun... which I tried more often before we found out that she might have lupus. After her dx I knew I couldn't play around too much.

[MattBemis]

It depends what your talking about, body langauge, levelvet of eye conact, and tone of voice are methods of indirect communication that are subconscious, every human being does them. It shows if a person is comfortable in a situation or not and is a very important part of communication. Have you ever gotten the feeling somebody just didn't like you or felt uncomfortable around you? Look at their body language closely and you'll undoubtly see a connection. The opposite is also true and it's a way to subconsciously tell how a person feels about your company. 90% of communication is non-verbal.

Indirect communication such as passive aggressive comments and sarcasm I do not condone. It's best to be straight up and honest with your words.

[hamster-bamster]

Got this, Big Bear! Your subsequent post explained where you were coming from.

I know a woman who lives and works with Lupus and seems to be doing fine. She is married, but does not have children. She is Mexican and she told me that she goes back to Mexico, she gets raised eyebrows because being childless as a choice is not culturally appropriate for a woman there. Because she told me that, I conclude that for her being childless is a choice (she is in her late 40s) and not a result of having Lupus, but I do not know her THAT well to probe further. She does a lot of alternative things - Ayuervedic medicine, nutrition, many things - and it seems that they are helping her stay well and active. She works a lot and the job is demanding. She is very generous with advice and if your gf wants info on alternative treatments for Lupus, I can ask my friend, but right now 3 wks from being dx'd only I doubt that your gf is in position to compare conventional and alternative approaches. But at any rate, if later she develops that interest, shoot me a PM and I will ask my friend for a list of resources.

[lovefromdover]

Originally Posted by MattBemis

Have you ever gotten the feeling somebody just didn't like you or felt uncomfortable around you?

When I don't really know someone, for example met few times only, I can never say whether this person likes me or not. Also, I don't ask myself this question*, it's premature. To me, to like someone is to know someone, this requires interactions on many levels. As of feeling, nearly always (still when I don't really know well someone, or only met few times) I do not feel not liked. This is probably because I'm open and have friendly attitude towards everybody. Go back to (*).

I usually get the feeling when someone is uncomfortable around me and nearly always try to put someone like that at ease. Again, this doesn't mean someone doesn't like me or that I don't like that person. It means that for some reason this person is uncomfortable. This can have nothing to do with me personally. Go back to (*).

Originally Posted by MattBemis

Look at their body language closely and you'll undoubtly see a connection.

This is not always true and can be faked (otherwise we wouldn't have possibility to enjoy cinematography), that's why all communication matters.

Originally Posted by MattBemis

Indirect communication such as passive aggressive comments and sarcasm I do not condone.

Most times I'm uncomfortable with passive aggression of that kind. Sarcasm is something else and in low doses served with humour is acceptable and even funny.

[lovefromdover]

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

I conclude that for her being childless is a choice (she is in her late 40s) and not a result of having Lupus,

She does a lot of alternative things -

As a result of hypothetical choice or having Lupus?