[hamster-bamster]

Has anybody, in the US, been able to obtain a protective order based on history of blackmail, but in a non-physical sense? I know you can obtain a protective order so that the restrained person cannot be within a certain distance from your place of employment. I do not need such an order. I want a protective order to preempt my ex H from writing to the HR of my new job (I got a permanent position offer finally so ecstatic beyond belief but also worried).

In the past jobs, he threatened to write to HR saying that I am mentally ill. The threat was oral and he did not call the HR.

Then when I finally filed a motion to court, he suggested that I remove it because HR professionals would look into court records, which are public, and nobody would hire me. This was blackmail, but veiled in a disguise of "I am trying to help you". And that was in writing.

So I am thinking that with this kind of record I deserve protection and want an order which basically says that if he writes to the HR, the same consequences would happen as if he trespassed on the territory of the company with a traditional, physical restraining order.

Until I start working I cannot pay anything above what I already am paying to my lawyer, but I can call legal aid and ask if they would intervene.

To sum up: ex H threatens to reveal mental health dx's of ex W to her HR.
In theory, this is bad.... really bad, but I wonder if anybody has been able to successfully get that kind of non-physical protection.

[~Christina]

Why would he even know what company you are going to be working for ? unless you tell him ?

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by ~Christina

Why would he even know what company you are going to be working for ? unless you tell him ?

Unfortunately, I cannot avoid his learning where I would be working: I am supposed to provide medical insurance for the girls as per the court order if my employer gives that option. The employer does give that option and would pay 80% premium for my daughters' coverage. The insurance cards always say the plan title, and everywhere I have worked in the past, the name of the company was the plan title. I will have until Jan 31st to sign up for insurance, so by mid-Feb I would need to send the insurance cards to the girls. That is the immediate source of danger. Down the line, the court asks for income and expense declarations from time to time and those forms include the current employer name as question 1. I think that this is less of a problem, because we can ask the judge to go over the employer's name with a black sharpie based on what happened before. I do not think such a reasonable request would be denied.

The insurance cards, however... not sure what to do.

Actually, I do. At least I will try. I will contact the clinic's billing office, explain the situation, and ask if I may deal with the clinic's billing directly (I would need to pay 1/2 of copays anyway) without their disclosing the insurance info to him, and ask them to just bill him for his 1/2 of copay.

At least it is worth a shot. Because I am obligated to provide coverage - I do not think that I am obligated to disclose who the employer is.

[Mid-Life-Larry]

Hey HB,
Check the law yourself. You have certain rights under the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act). The law applies to any business with more than 15 total employees... and includes both physical and mental disabilities.

[Trippin2.0]

That's the first thought that struck me too... It's none of his business where you work.


In answer to your question, idk, I honestly don't know, but I hope you manage to keep his nose out of your private business this time around.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Mid-Life-Larry

Hey HB,
Check the law yourself. You have certain rights under the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act). The law applies to any business with more than 15 total employees... and includes both physical and mental disabilities.

WRT ADA rights, Larry:

I have a neurological disability that limits me a bit (out of work for 2 days every 6-8 weeks or so) and I disclosed it and it was OK'd (meaning - they agreed to accommodate by providing a few extra sick days a year).

I do not have a psychiatric disability that limits my work, so I would not need to invoke the rights under ADA. The issue is that I do not the work to know that I have a history of mental issues at all. I do understand that they won't fire me, but I am trying to leave my past behind and open a new chapter...

I do see where you are going and maybe stating to the HR that I have bipolar but do not require accommodations would be just right - it is not that big of a deal. But I do not want them to know about my suicide attempt many years ago... When that attempt happened, I was at another company and then H wrote about it to my manager, HR, my team, etc., trying to claim that my manager should have noticed some changes in me... really twisted logic... his thought process is so hard to follow that unfortunately I cannot rely on his being at least self-serving. Since I will be paying him spousal support, one could hope that he would not want to bite the hand that feeds him, but - I guess with your help, Larry, I am finally able to formulate my ex H's most unusual feature - he wants to bite so much that he would bite just for the pleasure of causing pain.
By the way the neuropsychologist who assessed me told me that ex H is a sadist (not in a playfully sexual way, but for real).

[Trippin2.0]

I agree he's sadistic in the purest sense of the word.

[hamster-bamster]

I wrote to the clinic's billing office asking to have their legal department contact me about this. I am supposed to provide medical insurance if my employer covers it (it does cover 80%) but it does not mean I should provide any information. So I asked them to deal with me directly and only bill him for 1/2 of copay. If he gets bills, the bills would say that this portion was covered by Blue Cross (a major medical insurance co in CA), this portion by mother, and this is yours to pay, basically. The bill only list insurance. It is the insurance CARDS that bear the name of the employer. So if the clinic agrees to this, I think it is problem solved. I will "forget" to update the LinkedIn profile; on FB I do not list employers, and all the documents submitted to the court can be covered by a thick black sharpie to conceal the name of the employer.

Since ex H claimed, last summer, that I violated his confidentiality by submitting to the psychologist who is doing the assessment of the situation with the girls a letter written by MY FORMER PSYCHOLOGIST TO ME (!!!), and did it under oath (!!!), I think a judge would find my request to go over employer data with a black sharpie reasonable.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Trippin2.0

I agree he's sadistic in the purest sense of the word.

He is, but now that he does completely outrageous things (such as saying that a letter written by MY psycholoigst to ME is HIS confidential property), it is like ... antics. I wish I could get money by getting his statements into the Guinness book of records (the gem above about his confidentiality could easily beat the record of the absurdest things to say).

[hamster-bamster]

The clinic did not get back to me - I guess they have to get their legal team to weigh in - but I have decided to look at the bright side. I was given extra sick days by the employer, and that is good news.

[Trippin2.0]

Actually Hammy, after reading that... He's sadistic AND delusional.

It's good you're so pedantic about detail, because that's a dangerous combo right there.


I'm glad FB allows us to block people... Mine would've been deactivated ages ago if my page was a free for all.

[Bill3]

Would you consider consulting with an attorney?

[hvert]

Have you read Gift of Fear? It might be helpful. His take on protection orders is unique and makes a lot of sense to me. Long story short, in most cases they actually worsen an already awful situation. They offer a false sense of protection.

[eskielover]

He's a fool also......anyone who is getting financial support from you through your income & ends us trying to destroy you at the same time....is just plain STUPID!!!!!!

It's called shooting yourself in the foot.

[unaluna]

Congrats on the new job!!

[Bill3]

I have a relative who is an HR director with a major company. She said that she personally would ignore such a letter, but would tell the employee about receiving it.. She does have experience with receiving such a letter, and that is how she handled it.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Bill3

Would you consider consulting with an attorney?

I have head an attorney since Nov of 2012. He is lazy, disorganized, and spineless. A very nice guy whom I would love to have as a friend, but, it is precisely how very nice he is that makes him a bad litigator. I am already doing most of the drafting, because he not only is not aggressive, but also not even minimally assertive. He would send me a draft where he talks about miscommunications - in reality there were intentional misrepresentations; his language is weak and diluted and overly gentle. I make edits, he then agrees, and promises to send a letter to the opposing counsel, but I have to call him every day to remind, email him, and, email his assistant with "Please remind Robert to send...".

In other words, just on the minimum amount of work that he absolutely HAS to do, I remind him in three different ways EVERY freaking day. With respect to the children's issue, the psychologist who is writing a report to the court needed to see the children, who are teens, one last time. Nobody scheduled the appointments. I emailed Robert every freaking day for 2 weeks asking to make the opposing counsel accountable. He finally called her and in one day she managed to get one of two appointments scheduled.

She cited a confusion - she though that ex would schedule appointments but he thought that she, his new attorney, would. So she claimed that the delay was unintentional.

My attorney would have let it slide.

I had to tell him - it was unintentional on her end, but intentional on his, because if ex expected her to schedule the appointments, then the fact that after 2 weeks he had not received appointments times from her effectively put him on notice - had he not been in his usual "delay delay delay" mode (this is an excellent strategy for him because the children are teens already), he would have tried to resolve the confusion, but he did not do anything. So I drafted a letter thanking her (the new opposing counsel) for making things happen and acknowledging that the delay was not unintentional on her part, but was on ex' part because silence effectively put him on notice.

All of that reasoning is completely obvious, but my attorney did not come up with it.

he sometimes has good ideas, to his credit, and sometimes gets the job done, but he needs to be micromanaged, and had one of my girlfriends not suggested to me that I start pushing his assistant to get him get his act together, we would have made no progress at all. By calling the assistant, I have her nag him in person which usually is more fruitful because emails he probably disregards, but when she knocks on his door, he sometimes does the work. Another thing that works is my coming to his office, drafting together with him, and sitting in a chair opposite him waiting for him to press the SEND button. That works. If he says: "I need to leave for the court and will send the email after the court tonight", I then have to remind him and his assistant for at least a week asking him to actually press that SEND button. This is exhausting and I plan to schedule appointments with him on Saturdays because on Saturdays court is closed.

A smart, charming, but toothless guy. But, he charges relatively low rates being young, and I owe him over $8000 and he never asked for repayment because he understands that I have no money now. If I were to get a new attorney, how would I pay a retainer? Plus, the case is complex and my current attorney knows the details. To pay somebody else just to get familiar with the case would come at an exorbitant cost.

So it is either Legal Aid (for which I would qualify right now, but not next year since next year I will have a job), or, myself finding out, drafting, and just getting his help in filing. There are already many things on which he has dropped the ball, but, mad as I am, I realize that I am a non-paying client, so I do not have unrealistic expectations. I have decided that the most important thing now is to finally receive the report from the court-appointed psychologist before it will have been 2 (!!!) years since we agreed that such report following an assessment would be filed, and I do not burden the attorney with anything that is not directly related to that report.

***

While I was writing the above, I sent my today's reminder to his secretary.

This is what she wrote back to me:

"Robert is currently on vacation. He left me a draft of the letter in my email so I can send it out for him. "

He did not tell me of this vacation plans.

And the assistant is not really, how would I say, "driven" - if he left the letter in her email, why has not she sent it out yet? So I asked her to send it out and cc me.

And every little thing takes that much effort. It is exhausting and aggravating.

Bill, that was a very long-winded answer to your simple question.

***

PS I called the Legal Aid. They only take cases where physical violence takes place and took place. And that is understandable - they are underfunded so they limit their involvement to the most egregious and dangerous situations.

So I need to research it on my own - the lawyer is on vacation and the legal aid would not take me.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by eskielover

He's a fool also......anyone who is getting financial support from you through your income & ends us trying to destroy you at the same time....is just plain STUPID!!!!!!

It's called shooting yourself in the foot.

I love it

Biting the HAND that feeds you is shooting yourself in the FOOT.

Thanks Eskie!

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Bill3

I have a relative who is an HR director with a major company. She said that she personally would ignore such a letter, but would tell the employee about receiving it.. She does have experience with receiving such a letter, and that is how she handled it.

Bill, this is the most helpful advice for me. Can you ask a relative whether she'd advise me to be proactive or not?

Say, I can go to the HR when I am hired and tell them that there is an ugly court and custody battle and ex husband has been known for his irrational moves and for trying to defame me out of spite, so I ask that if the HR receives any kid of correspondence from him, would they please tell me right away.

Or, I can let it happen the way it would happen and hope that the head of HR would behave exactly the way your relative did.

This is really great news, and, come to think of it, the job I am starting is at a big enough company to have a separate HR department. It is not a major company, unlike the one where your relative leads the HR department, but it is big enough. So all I care about is my image and reputation on my new team. If HR ends up learning of some secrets, I really do not care. Nor should I, right? And HR must have their ethical codes, so presumably they would not forward such letters outside of the HR.

Please ask her! I wonder what her advice would be on whether I should be proactive or not.

This is really much more helpful than what I could have gotten out of legal aid (or, ARGH, my attorney) -- to have an expert insider express her views and comment on her experiences. Thanks Bill!

[Bill3]

I will ask and get back to you.

[JosephR]

Hamster_bamster
Your H sounds like my sister. I kinda failed to get a restraining order on her. And what worked for me was cutting off all contact, And ALL contact and exiting the shared social circles I had with her. It was more then a little depressing but, But it was worth it in the end.

An unpleasant thing with my sister is she did habitually make good on her threats and as distasteful as it might sound when you reroot into a new situation and job you may want to give a few small hints that you have filed for a restraining order.

And I will say this, Even if they deny it. File for it. It establishes a history. And with my sister that is one thing that went a long way from keeping me out of jail when I stopped paying her blackmail money.

[unaluna]

You guys, i love that hammy has worldwide support in this!!! oh - i guess i shouldnt be seen dozing on the couch with my hair in rollers when i say that

[Bill3]

Here is my relative's response.

*****

- There are no official ethical standards in the HR profession, but if HR learns something about an employee, unless it's relevant to the job or security/safety, they really shouldn't tell anyone.

- As with all professions, there are all levels of quality and competence among HR people. My general advice would be that it would be a good thing to raise pro-actively with the HR person she feels most comfortable with. I would be most concerned about security/safety (ie is there a possibility the ex-husband would come into the workplace and threaten the employee or others). So, if this isn't an issue, I would definitely make sure that's communicated.

- My suggestion is that she go through the new hire orientation and determine how comfortable she feels with the HR people she meets. During her initial employment, she can also get a sense, hopefully, of how HR is perceived and if the employees feel comfortable going to HR with any issues (and that they are treated confidentially). If either of those situations are the case (ie that she feels comfortable with the HR people she meets or she sees that HR is well regarded), then I would suggest she meet with HR and explain her situation. She should try to be a clear and unemotional as possible and stick to the facts. Basically, she wants to let HR know that she is able to handle this professionally (so I suggest, if possible, no crying!).

- If she's not comfortable with the HR people she meets and/or HR is not well regarded in the company, then I suggest she hold off and not tell them (and see if he actually does anything).

- As an HR person, the main thing that concerns me is her statement that he's known for his irrational moves. If these involve physically going to her place of employment, then she definitely needs to talk with HR and/or their building security.

[eskielover]

Hmmmm I had a thought....if you do find HR able to work with, you might comment that you are in a divorce battle & your ex has been known to write letters of defamation & you would like to be let known so that you can forward the information to your lawyer so it can be handled appropriately. (not that your lawyer would handle it......but at least this way you will be made known if anything does come there from your ex)

Congrats, Hamster.

I imagine that this is not an unusual situation for an employer...If I was in their position I wouldn't give such "information" written by an ex very much weight.