Would you be friends with a fat person or not?

Yes, but I don't think it's an even spread, all uniformly distributed. I think there are definitely "pockets" of people where one notion will dominate over another, due to hundreds of different localized factors. Most of it is brought on by past experiences. It's like how the treatment and perception of a specific group of people (e.g. Middle eastern people) in the U.S. changed after the September 11 attacks. People are perceptive, and fears are acted upon. People don't like what's different from what they understand as "how it should be" or "what I'm comfortable with". My life is a shining example of that, because I've always been different, and people, well, they're just not comfortable with it, so let the avoidance begin.

And yet, America is one of the most individualistic countries out there. Unfortunately, it can come at a cost...

I don't see it as an issue with any country rather than an issue with civilization in general.

While I agree that America is pretty mild compared to the rest of the world, just because something negative is less severe doesn't make it any less negative.

I meant that there is a cost to being individualistic in nature. Less individualistic societies tend to actually be happier...

Of course, I also value individualism, but that is a function of where I have grown up.

One of my best friends is big and beautiful. Don't let anyone get to you.

American people are very independent of one another. There are enough opportunities for people to carve out their own life as they see fit, and there is nobody who can actually tell them they can't because then you have the power to just chase that person away and it won't make you any poorer.

As soon as you go into other places around the world, your cooperation with others is what gets you further in life. There are people who "own" things and you have to kiss up to get it. One of these I find, is friendship, and it's hard to believe but it's true. The cool people and people who define the norm of society "own" friendship. You have to "qualify" to get it by ticking all the little boxes that makes you "normal". It happens in a country where people feel there are limited stocks of something, or sometimes you just get power hungry control freaks that create that perception. America has always been a place where people believe their country is bountiful, and there is more than enough to share with everyone, and that attitude has definitely hit home with the people too, because Americans don't believe another person's individuality is going to cost them anything, and they're right of course. But, you get countries where people are encouraged to "work together" which is usually nothing more than a smokescreen for some ulterior motive. Be that as it may though, true individualism is hardly encouraged. Individualism as portrayed by the media is a man slipping on a pink t-shirt, or creating some new fashion fad. That's not individualism. It's fake.

Normal people try to portray themselves as different. I am different. I was born different and I was sculpted by life to be different. Their interpretation of different is a watered-down, fake a-- attempt and will never compare to anything I experienced being truly different.

It's not a nice life. It's not a beautiful thing. People don't come up to you and say "that's cool". Being different...it's ugly. My left-field gifts are not pretty, they are not designed to put a smile on somebody's face or make me popular. They are hardcore. It's not the light beer normal people come up with, it's strong spirits. Look at the truly gifted artists, their paintings are not beautiful, they're strong, expressionist, and highly complex, the songs musicians come up with, they don't have fairy-tale lyrics, they are full of pain and expression.

And that's the cost - the cost is popularity with people. People want things that are pretty and easy and tells them everything they want to hear, and shows them everything their eyes want to see. They don't want real, they want what appears to be best, by their standards and the stuff they believe like sheep.

I'm fat! And while I'm sure there are some people that might have sniggered behind my back, I am so grateful my husband has never turned on me. Despite me knowing he doesn't like the weight. Our circle of friends (mostly his friends) have also never let me feel anything less for the way I look. I always try to dress pretty when we go out, despite my size, and a number of times I've been complimented. I'm grateful for that.

I haven't read this entire thread, but that friend sounds so insensitive to me.

That is an incredibly ethnocentric view and not one backed by any research.

Well, you speculated something, so I speculated something too, I was furthering the discussion. The way I understood it was we were discussing that America seems to be a place where people are quite individualistic, maybe the country which is most so in the world, and then we speculated why that could be. You also said there was a price to pay for that, so I also speculated why that could be. I know there isn't any proof, and I doubt you'll find solid proof probably. Just thinking out aloud. No implications attached to anything I was saying, cultural or otherwise, I'm sorry if it came across that way. I'm saying America as a country. People are kind of a function of their country to some extent, no matter background. There is nature, but a lot of nurture too.

There is a lot of research out there on collectivist and individualistic societies. How they become that way, the benefits and downfalls of each, why they are that way...

OK, good.

Well, isn't you signature just stating the truth about you?

I'm not adding more, nor and I trying to say anything wrong but people are allowed to different opinions but from how you have replied to others I get this feeling you don't feel that way. Are you right and everyone else is wrong?

Yes, 100%, since I certainly didn't lie on it.

Of course, if that weren't true you and I would not be having this conversation right now.

Not at all. But, if you may have one then so may I. So, simply because I don't agree with everyone I am thus saying others shouldn't have an opinion? Is there any point where I actually said that? You get a feeling? My words on the screen are not what I really mean? I write one thing but actually meant something else? And, since you brought it up now, I get the "feeling" that most people on here don't want an opinion any different to theirs, simply because it challenges their long-held perceptions.

I truly believed the aim of PC was for people to grow mentally, so that we can all conquer the demons that are holding us hostage in our own lives. Now, I'm no longer so sure. How will that happen if nobody ever challenges anybody else? Let's all agree, and so doing, learn...nothing.

I come on to PC every day, and I see countless good, strong, loving, caring people sit here on the forums saying the most horrible things about themselves. I see people who believe that nobody loves them, I see people who think others are talking behind their backs, I see people who believe they deserve to die because they did not live up to some stupid, crap world standard rubbish that some idiot thought up somewhere. I see mothers too scared to speak to their own daughters because they truly believe they failed them, I see daughters feeling they will never live up to what their mother's image for them was. I see fathers distant from sons, and sons distant from fathers. I see husbands and wives who can tell strangers the most intimate secrets of their own bedroom, but cannot even discuss these things with each other. I see the real narcissists (who are the ones who should be on PC) out there stealing all the love and joy out of people's lives, and then those same people sitting here saying it is all their own fault that the narcissist did what they did to them. I see people asking questions like "Would you be friends with a fat person or not?" What is so sad about it all is, that 90% or more of it is not even true. The 10% that is true is blown so far out of proportion and so over-exaggerated that people actually believe "That's it, there's no hope for me." I see people sitting here truly believing they are evil and bad to the core, with not one single fact to back it up. I see people on PC claiming to be psychopaths. Psychopaths? Really? Psychopaths can stop lying, conniving, manipulating and destroying long enough to self-diagnose their destructive behaviour and actually believe there is something wrong with them, so that they in turn seek help, themselves? Psychopaths? You mean like Adolf Hitler, Idi Amin, Jim Jones? Those guys actually believed all along there was something wrong with them, but never came forward for help?

Do you believe that is possible? Can something like that actually happen? If you believe it, then I say, why hell yeah then!

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And as a final thing - look, it's gone. If you took issue with it, all you had to do was ask.

I honestly did not take issue with it! Yet, I somewhat believe you may have been beating a debate to death. Maybe I've been using groups on Facebook for too long.

As for someone actually having all the answers, doubt it! Life is meant to be a mystery. One of which we may never learn.

BTW, I don't mind debates but the photography groups on Facebook are trying me really! It's like if you try to be artistic you are wrong because, and God forbid, you broke rules to get you finished image!

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I definitely wasn't trying to, but, when is a debate really dead? When the admin guys close the thread! LOL

Couldn't agree more!

Exactly, these are the parallels I've been trying to draw here too. All these "rules" and who actually made them? Should we even listen to them? Do we quit or give up because a rule said we must? I certainly believe we shouldn't.

in reference to the actual original topic...

did you guys see the part on fat girls on louie? what did you think? i thought it made a lot of good points but was also kind of annoyed that louie didnt somehow arise above it...

of course, people can be assholes no matter what. i had a friend who people would say had aids just because her body would not put on weight. it was brutal what people would say..

I have people who have asked me if I have anorexia then rather believe that I can't put on weight. I can if I eat every meal in the day or a daily bases but I don't.

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btw, here is the video

Fat has nothing to do with friendship. Im thin with many thin friends, and yes, had overweight friends too. 'Fat' never got in the way of meaningful conversation.

Someone who equates fat with a good friendship is just shallow. In this life you don't want shallow anyway.

Yes. In fact I would rather be friends with a fat person than a skinny person.

Just kidding. It does not matter to me.

Good grief, how sadistic of people to even think something like that out.

I used to be very thin as a child, and my dad's drunk friends used to say I was anorexic and will turn out gay because of it, because I'm not bulky like a man. I was convinced for years to complete every plate of food because it's a sin to waste it. I used to gag on the food when I was full, and my mother would get mad at me. Eventually I must have got used to being able to eat more than my body would want, because the gagging stopped and I was able to eat an entire plate of food. The plates were adult size portions, the size my mom and dad were eating. I doubt a 7 year old boy would eat that same amount naturally. At about 8 I began gaining weight and to this day I eat a lot more than I need. I find it impossible to eat half a meal, or leave anything behind. I never get hungry either, and I never feel full. I have no idea when and how much I should eat, so I just do. I eat when I'm depressed too.

I'm now being told when feeding my little one to not make a big deal if she doesn't eat, "could cause eating disorders." Which makes much sense to me. The only time I have made a small fuss is when it's yogurt and I can't re-seal the pot.



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Seems you were right about people. Got rejected quite often the last few days for being fat. Excuses were not in so many words, but were pretty lame enough for me to realize it was simply me being fat that's the problem.

It seems that more and more, we are becoming a society that judges others by appearances. There are many problems with that...so much so that it would be pointless to address them here. There seem to be no supply of judges in this world, but I would wager none of them would desire to be on the other end. First off, it is, as the others have said, shallow and imho self righteous. Second, definitely not something that someone of good moral character would say, Christian or not. Third, its sad...mainly because if you judge a book by its cover, you will never know what you are missing. I have encountered a lot of people like that...even the Christian school I teach at. No place is immune...

Surround yourself with those who lift you up and celebrate you for the amazing individual you are and banish the rest.

~Seanachai~