[b7e7m7]

I have little idea as to what the disorder could be and have been for a long time trying to decide if it was in fact some sort of formal disorder, so since we (the family) are about to enter a high stress mode I thought I best start here to find out where I should post. Moderator, if you could simply move this to whatever is the appropriate forum, I sure would appreciate it!

My wife has always exhibited a second side of herself - even before dating her a little more than a couple decades ago, a co-worker came up with another name for her for when she would be hostile. Those hostile periods tended to only last a matter of hours or days if I recall. We would call her by the other name for the period she was exhibiting those personality traits.

After getting married I found that the hostile side of her was not something related to simply struggling with present finances - I had hoped with the money I was making at the time all would be fine (I was so wrong!). In retrospect, I probably encouraged problems for whenever she would get real upset I would go out and buy her something, usually jewelry. Also of some note that her "family" situation growing up was an alcoholic mother who had almost a revolving door when it came to "daddies", she never had a model of commitment, loyalty nor lasting affection - something that wouldn't sink in to my thinking for a number of years to come.

Over time we had several children, and over time I found my income was highly dependent on the economy - when the economy in the state we lived in crashed (way before and much worse than the national economic problems), so did my income.

She became extremely abusive and hostile, many times what I would have to call hysterically crying, screaming and insulting me. Though I believed I had to maintain a course in business as the best direction to recover over time, I abandoned it because of how extreme she was becoming in order to appease her, as she was threatening divorce and I had long before decided I would not allow the breakup of the family no matter what (another realization - our country believes otherwise).

We went through great financial stress, losing our home. I kept applying for a wide spectrum of jobs, but where when I was younger I was solicited by companies away from positions, I now was no longer of apparent value. My inability to get a decent job resulted in her accusing me of not trying and raising her hostility. I finally found a minimum wage job at a retail store - I was honestly happy to secure it; not having work is horrible, but after a while the work started taking a strong toll on me physically and from her I endured constant insult for the minimal income I was bringing in.

I started to notice that the more abusive periods were almost cyclical - she would be mildly abusive for a number of months, then aggressively abusive for a number of months - never physically, but speak to me like I was being spoken to as I imagine an abusive prison guard might treat a prisoner (I am contemplating a Nazi concentration camp). I am told how worthless I am to the household, how she has to support me, how I am not allowed to buy anything without her permission... You get the picture. Most of this time when I was not reacting to the insult, I was very disappointed in myself for not being able to help her. To see her depressed, to see the drinking (alcohol), to see the frustration. If I wasn't so arrogant before, all of that might have been avoided with more controlled savings and more pressure for her to get help in the beginning when I could have afforded it.

Now, to make it more interesting - I recently resumed the line of work that once made me a rather notable income after finding out that it had somewhat recovered - a few friends I had stayed in it and though there were some very lean years (not worse than minimum wage), they were all building back for the last several years and making respectable incomes. In my first month back I brought in roughly 2.5 times what I had previously made in retail. My second month is more of a struggle, but not only have I brought in as much as I did in a month in retail but have several transactions that are entering their finalization and will exceed last month's income, plus business in process for next month. And for some unknown reason, over last nite to this morning, she has snapped back into hostility.

When she changes between hostility modes it has always appeared rather sudden. And so it was over yesterday/today. She just suddenly became demanding to an abusive extent - i.e., I did several hundred dollars' worth of work for the work that she does, for which a couple weeks ago she gave me $20 and told me to spend it any way I wanted to, so I bought a grocery item I enjoy - Today I once again was ordered not to ever buy anything again of that nature for myself, to only eat what she purchases. I also was ordered to never again feed the cats on the furniture because they threw-up on the furniture and floor.

Wow. When I write that it really makes me amazed at the situation. As an item that may or may not be related, I believe she is (She is) an alcoholic - usually has a beer while getting ready in the morning, an 18 pack every two to four days, "airline" bottles hidden around, a DUI even though she was no longer in the vehicle but an employer who recently terminated her for her attitude had to call the police as she became disruptive when she went to pick up a check and was under the influence.

She is very good at her profession, but has lost a number of positions because the people she works for and with end up not liking her (My presumption. She has related that she has been told it has nothing to do with the quality of the work, just compatibility or words to that effect). At home she speaks of people at work as idiots, morons, stupid... Each time is pretty much the same where she gets the position and likes the person she will be working for, then finds fault, then becomes very critical, then gets terminated. Most positions last about two years, but fortunately she has maintained this one for a little longer due to managerial turnover, I believe.

Even if it wasn't for the children I doubt I would abandon her. I knew she had problems when I married her. Though I was the idiot to think the money I was making at the time could solve the problems, I still made my commitment. I am sure that besides losing a substantial income from a couple decades ago, I have my faults, perhaps many.

I once (long ago) enjoyed studying psychology and am reasonably intelligent, but I am way too close to this situation and as I know once again the climate is turning more abusive, I am looking for some collaboration. I want to find a way to help her, and in effect, help the family and myself. So... Can you folks direct me to the proper forum?

[Trippin2.0]

Wow, I don't even know what to say except I'm really sorry you're being treated like shyt by someone you love.


Your pain is evident in your post.


I would like to give her the benefit of the doubt and think the alcohol is what's driving her abusive nature, so AA would be my first suggestion....



(Ordinarily as a victim of a previous abusive partner I would just type "RUN" because there's never an excuse for abuse)
But I can see how much you want your marriage to work...

To be honest I doubt your wife will admit she has a problem, so finding her help is a moot point if she's unwilling to make use of it.

Maybe marriage counseling is a more viable option.

Sorry I'm not much help, but couldn't just ignore your post.

It seems to me you married a ultra-demanding, high maintenance type.

Also seems that you've bent over and backwards for her ever since you married, which made her think it's ok to act like a spoiled child when she should at least be thankful and considerate of your efforts.

Well, in my opinion, your options are: 1) take her to a doctor, run tests and see if there is really a medical explanation for that and treatment available, or 2) divorce and move on.

Regardless of what her problem really is, and whether or not she has a mental illness, you need to realise that you don't deserve the kind of treatment you're getting from her.

Most people stay with abusive partners because 1) they believe that they can fix the partner, 2) they believe that it will go away and the partner will grow out of it, 3) they have low self-esteem, no moral or financial support from family, friends or local authority to leave the abusive partner.

Seems to me that 3) doesn't apply to you, so...

One thing for sure is that this abusive relationship you're in is destroying you bit by bit, day after day. Either you wake up for the reality that people don't ever change and you cannot save them, or you're going to get ill yourself and eventually engulfed and consumed by her wrath.

Is that how you want to live the rest of your life?

[JustJenny]

Does she ever admit she is wrong about anything? Does she ever apologize? How is she with the kids? What do the kids think?

Is she earning any money right now?

[yagr]

My thoughts on this are limited by the challenges of communication in this medium. The lack of back and forth allowing for questions of clarification, voice inflection, body language, etc. I'm sure that you realize the limitations but as this is your first post here, and I don't know how much experience you have in this type of setting, I thought I'd mention it.

I'd like to begin by saying that I feel for your suffering. I think you're doing a disservice to yourself when you dismiss or minimize the cost to you in all of this, and I've no doubt you do. I usually pull punches on this forum - it's a gentle place, but I assume you'll just intellectualize my comment away if I do, so I'll be more blunt than usual.

Sweeping statements in response to a well thought out and detailed post seem lazy and point to someone uninvested in your plight, but I have to risk saying it: You need to shoot the white horse and it needs to be a kill shot.

Are you familiar with the term cathexis? I'd suggest that this is what is passing for love in this relationship. Loving her is about giving her what she needs to blossom and grow. What you are doing is insulating and protecting her from the consequences of her behavior and actions. She cannot grow this way. She will be forever dependent upon you, and that dependence will prevent a real, mature expression of love.

What mental illness she has or does not have, is almost inconsequential. Whatever it is, it is her responsibility for which she can turn to you for assistance. You have made it your responsibility to determine so that you can take steps to fix it, with or without her conscious contributions. At this point, the best you can hope to do is to diagnose her and then coerce her into being helped. She will continue to resist you.

My advice and suggestion, would be to begin counseling yourself. Become willing to understand your part in this and how to protect yourself. Right now you are her excuse for her behavior and outbursts, you're her emotional punching bag and the foundation upon which she has managed to build a very unsafe platform for living. In learning to allow yourself to let her world come crumbling down on top of her, you may give her the incentive she needs to get help, grow, and then perhaps even start to become a woman capable of being a healthy and responsible wife, mother and employee.

Best wishes.

[IceCreamKid]

I can direct you to Al-Anon and if the children are old enough to benefit AlaTeen and also family therapy or individual counseling.

Neither you nor your children can fix your wife. Get help for yourself and your children and suggest help to your wife, but with the foreknowledge she is likely to explode and blame everything on you, or your perception, or the perception of the world at large. You would be correct in acknowledging to her that you made a mistake putting up with her rages all these years, but also correct in telling her that you are no longer going to be codependent and no longer allow the children to be subject to such disfunction.

[continuosly blue]

[QUOTE=b7e7m7;4892495] We would call her by the other name for the period she was exhibiting those personality traits.[QUOTE]

As was already mentioned , I can't respond as if we were on the phone. But I would like to respond to what I believe are the most telling statements in your post , as relating to my own experience. That being said , as to the quote above , was that word narcissist ??

[QUOTE] After getting married I found that the hostile side of her was not something related to simply struggling with present finances - I had hoped with the money I was making at the time all would be fine (I was so wrong!). In retrospect, I probably encouraged problems for whenever she would get real upset I would go out and buy her something, usually jewelry.[QUOTE]

So it appears you placated her "before" even getting married with a gift. Unwittingly , perhaps , you enabled this behavior. But as I became well aware in my own life , " love is blind deaf and dumb ".

[QUOTE] Also of some note that her "family" situation growing up was an alcoholic mother who had almost a revolving door when it came to "daddies", she never had a model of commitment, loyalty nor lasting affection - something that wouldn't sink in to my thinking for a number of years to come.[QUOTE]

Again signs of Narcissistic behavior coupled with alcoholism ! Very explosive combination. And you usually don't figure all this stuff out until it's too late.
Your desperate attempt to keep the relationship you are in going is what fuels
the fire. It took me YEARS before I figured out what my relationship said about me , then her , and then the "us".

[QUOTE]She became extremely abusive and hostile, many times what I would have to call hysterically crying, screaming and insulting me. Though I believed I had to maintain a course in business as the best direction to recover over time, I abandoned it because of how extreme she was becoming in order to appease her, as she was threatening divorce and I had long before decided I would not allow the breakup of the family no matter what (another realization -our country believes otherwise).[QUOTE]

What I said above goes for here too. It's all the same. She goes into these tirades. Insults you etc....You feel bad because you can't help her. Actually I don't feel that you have any idea of what's really going on here. You just want to save her and the marriage. And you seem to think money is the end all and cure all.

[QUOTE]And for some unknown reason, over last nite to this morning, she has snapped back into hostility.[QUOTE]

Even when things are looking up she will still act hostile towards you. Treat you like crap. Boss you around. Your her emotional slave. When she is nice to you it's just to keep you around. This is a "hostile takeover". You
just don't have a clue yet. And this "sudden changeover" that you talk about isn't so sudden as you might think. There are subtleties you could be missing. Or maybe we can add a split personality to the mix.

[QUOTE] I have my faults, perhaps many.[QUOTE]

This is probably the most important sentence out of your whole narrative.
Why ? Because you know what's wrong with your wife , but what's wrong with you ? Not to be rude but most come here initially to seek help for "THEMSELVES". Seems like there's nothing wrong with you. You know what forum your in and why , for your wife and marriage. But I don't think you know what forum you need to be in for yourself. What are these faults of yours ? What do you really need help with ?

I think that's where you need to start. Once you figure out what this has all done to you and whether or not YOU could have a disorder or two of your own can you begin to deal with the rest of it.

YOU COULD BE THE COMPLETE VICTIM HERE. But the fact of how you try and hold on should be saying something about you as it may not be for the reasons you think.

That's just my honest , candid , and forgive me , blunt opinion. Based on how it was MY own problems that led me , and kept me , in an abusive situation for almost my WHOLE LIFE.

[ComfortablyNumb5]

Originally Posted by b7e7m7

I have little idea as to what the disorder could be and have been for a long time trying to decide if it was in fact some sort of formal disorder, so since we (the family) are about to enter a high stress mode I thought I best start here to find out where I should post. Moderator, if you could simply move this to whatever is the appropriate forum, I sure would appreciate it!

My wife has always exhibited a second side of herself - even before dating her a little more than a couple decades ago, a co-worker came up with another name for her for when she would be hostile. Those hostile periods tended to only last a matter of hours or days if I recall. We would call her by the other name for the period she was exhibiting those personality traits.

After getting married I found that the hostile side of her was not something related to simply struggling with present finances - I had hoped with the money I was making at the time all would be fine (I was so wrong!). In retrospect, I probably encouraged problems for whenever she would get real upset I would go out and buy her something, usually jewelry. Also of some note that her "family" situation growing up was an alcoholic mother who had almost a revolving door when it came to "daddies", she never had a model of commitment, loyalty nor lasting affection - something that wouldn't sink in to my thinking for a number of years to come.

Over time we had several children, and over time I found my income was highly dependent on the economy - when the economy in the state we lived in crashed (way before and much worse than the national economic problems), so did my income.

She became extremely abusive and hostile, many times what I would have to call hysterically crying, screaming and insulting me. Though I believed I had to maintain a course in business as the best direction to recover over time, I abandoned it because of how extreme she was becoming in order to appease her, as she was threatening divorce and I had long before decided I would not allow the breakup of the family no matter what (another realization - our country believes otherwise).

We went through great financial stress, losing our home. I kept applying for a wide spectrum of jobs, but where when I was younger I was solicited by companies away from positions, I now was no longer of apparent value. My inability to get a decent job resulted in her accusing me of not trying and raising her hostility. I finally found a minimum wage job at a retail store - I was honestly happy to secure it; not having work is horrible, but after a while the work started taking a strong toll on me physically and from her I endured constant insult for the minimal income I was bringing in.

I started to notice that the more abusive periods were almost cyclical - she would be mildly abusive for a number of months, then aggressively abusive for a number of months - never physically, but speak to me like I was being spoken to as I imagine an abusive prison guard might treat a prisoner (I am contemplating a Nazi concentration camp). I am told how worthless I am to the household, how she has to support me, how I am not allowed to buy anything without her permission... You get the picture. Most of this time when I was not reacting to the insult, I was very disappointed in myself for not being able to help her. To see her depressed, to see the drinking (alcohol), to see the frustration. If I wasn't so arrogant before, all of that might have been avoided with more controlled savings and more pressure for her to get help in the beginning when I could have afforded it.

Now, to make it more interesting - I recently resumed the line of work that once made me a rather notable income after finding out that it had somewhat recovered - a few friends I had stayed in it and though there were some very lean years (not worse than minimum wage), they were all building back for the last several years and making respectable incomes. In my first month back I brought in roughly 2.5 times what I had previously made in retail. My second month is more of a struggle, but not only have I brought in as much as I did in a month in retail but have several transactions that are entering their finalization and will exceed last month's income, plus business in process for next month. And for some unknown reason, over last nite to this morning, she has snapped back into hostility.

When she changes between hostility modes it has always appeared rather sudden. And so it was over yesterday/today. She just suddenly became demanding to an abusive extent - i.e., I did several hundred dollars' worth of work for the work that she does, for which a couple weeks ago she gave me $20 and told me to spend it any way I wanted to, so I bought a grocery item I enjoy - Today I once again was ordered not to ever buy anything again of that nature for myself, to only eat what she purchases. I also was ordered to never again feed the cats on the furniture because they threw-up on the furniture and floor.

Wow. When I write that it really makes me amazed at the situation. As an item that may or may not be related, I believe she is (She is) an alcoholic - usually has a beer while getting ready in the morning, an 18 pack every two to four days, "airline" bottles hidden around, a DUI even though she was no longer in the vehicle but an employer who recently terminated her for her attitude had to call the police as she became disruptive when she went to pick up a check and was under the influence.

She is very good at her profession, but has lost a number of positions because the people she works for and with end up not liking her (My presumption. She has related that she has been told it has nothing to do with the quality of the work, just compatibility or words to that effect). At home she speaks of people at work as idiots, morons, stupid... Each time is pretty much the same where she gets the position and likes the person she will be working for, then finds fault, then becomes very critical, then gets terminated. Most positions last about two years, but fortunately she has maintained this one for a little longer due to managerial turnover, I believe.

Even if it wasn't for the children I doubt I would abandon her. I knew she had problems when I married her. Though I was the idiot to think the money I was making at the time could solve the problems, I still made my commitment. I am sure that besides losing a substantial income from a couple decades ago, I have my faults, perhaps many.

I once (long ago) enjoyed studying psychology and am reasonably intelligent, but I am way too close to this situation and as I know once again the climate is turning more abusive, I am looking for some collaboration. I want to find a way to help her, and in effect, help the family and myself. So... Can you folks direct me to the proper forum?

Has she ever been assessed for bipolar or borderline personality disorder? Because she sounds a lot like me when I'm unmedicated, right down to the drinking. I've lost jobs and have been quite a nasty person in the past. That being said, she should seek therapy and probably medication. She needs a good psych team working with her. But the important thing is, does she want to change? Is she even aware of her actions? I imagine she may be deep down and the alcohol is helping to forget that.

Even if she may have a MI, is does not give her a right to treat you badly. It may be an excuse but it doesn't make it right. No one should have to live being treated like that. I understand you two are married with kids to think of and you don't want to abandon her. It wouldn't do her any good if you did. Might even make her worst. I would talk to her when she is in a calm mood and let her know your concerns and discuss getting help. Otherwise I'm afraid she'll never change.