[DechanDawa]

Social support is missing from my life. I don't know how to begin to get it.

[Skeezyks]

Hi again...DechanDawa: (I just finished replying to another of your Threads.) I'm probably not the best person to reply to this Thread because I am completely solitary, by choice. But that has not always been the case. My perspective is that people become friends because they share common interests. This is not to say that everyone who shares common interests is going to be friends. But, among the "universe" of people with whom you share common interests is where you will be most likely to find friends.

Having said that, my thinking is that the best way to find friends, & gain social support, is to become involved in some sort of group social activity that is of interest. This could be doing some type of volunteer work, joining a club, joining some type of religious or spiritual community or organization... anything that puts you in regular contact with others with whom you share common interests. Also, the fact that you are helping others & working to improve your community & the lives of others is pretty-much an accepted remedy for depression.

What one does doesn't have to be allot of hours per week. And the type of thing one does can often be tailored to meet one's needs in terms of the amount of public contact one experiences. This may, of course, vary depending on where one lives. If one lives in a rural area, the opportunities may be more limited. In a metropolitan area opportunities will be more varied. Where I live, there is actually an organization whose objective is hook potential volunteers up with other organizations seeking volunteers.

So if I wanted to get out & be more social, what I would do is to find some type of volunteer work I would be interesting in doing. In fact, I think about doing just this from time-to-time. In my case, though, overall I seem to be pretty content to remain solitary.

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by Skeezyks

Hi again...DechanDawa: (I just finished replying to another of your Threads.) I'm probably not the best person to reply to this Thread because I am completely solitary, by choice. But that has not always been the case. My perspective is that people become friends because they share common interests. This is not to say that everyone who shares common interests is going to be friends. But, among the "universe" of people with whom you share common interests is where you will be most likely to find friends.

Having said that, my thinking is that the best way to find friends, & gain social support, is to become involved in some sort of group social activity that is of interest. This could be doing some type of volunteer work, joining a club, joining some type of religious or spiritual community or organization... anything that puts you in regular contact with others with whom you share common interests. Also, the fact that you are helping others & working to improve your community & the lives of others is pretty-much an accepted remedy for depression.

What one does doesn't have to be allot of hours per week. And the type of thing one does can often be tailored to meet one's needs in terms of the amount of public contact one experiences. This may, of course, vary depending on where one lives. If one lives in a rural area, the opportunities may be more limited. In a metropolitan area opportunities will be more varied. Where I live, there is actually an organization whose objective is hook potential volunteers up with other organizations seeking volunteers.

So if I wanted to get out & be more social, what I would do is to find some type of volunteer work I would be interesting in doing. In fact, I think about doing just this from time-to-time. In my case, though, overall I seem to be pretty content to remain solitary.

Thank you. I have to over-ride the depression. It is the cause of everything bad. I was connected. I volunteered with therapy horses and loved it. Before that I was a hospital volunteer for ten years. I went back to graduate school in mid-life. I have been a member of a meditation community for 22 years. I had two jobs I loved. I can't believe it but it seems that the depression just took everything away. I just got less motivated and more withdrawn. I find this hard to explain. The reason I tried medication was because I heard it helped people to start building new connections. I had high hopes. But it wasn't for me. My question here was how to create social support when depressed. To me that is the tough question. I am not myself. I feel like a shadow of myself. I can see where people who have not gone through this would have no idea how it feels. I think that the process of reconnecting is going to be painful. I think I am trying to figure out how to avoid that pain and I can't avoid it. I broke my arm and wrist once and rehabilitation was painful. But I had to do it. I guess the same with this. Thanks Skeez, I love your comments. I am basking in your attention.

[barbella]

Well, you are here and that is something. One reason I'm here is for the sense of community. I've been finding it useful and I hope I can take some skills from here out into the 'real' world and see what happens there. I'm wondering about your meditation community - do you maintain any contact with them? How risky does it feel to consider popping in when you can?

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by barbella

Well, you are here and that is something. One reason I'm here is for the sense of community. I've been finding it useful and I hope I can take some skills from here out into the 'real' world and see what happens there. I'm wondering about your meditation community - do you maintain any contact with them? How risky does it feel to consider popping in when you can?

Popping into the meditation community would be very easy. No stress. There is a lecture, or sitting meditation practice. I also go to a christian church. I think this is a good suggestion and a very good place to start. I am just out of the habit of going. Some with the recreation center for swimming. I think this is a very, very good suggestion, so thank you barbella. I think I need to start with no stress group activities and build from there. Just showing up would be good.

I think it is worthwhile reading a CBT book on how to handle depression. I suggest "Feeling Good" by Dr. David Burns. Have you read it?

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by Nickname

I think it is worthwhile reading a CBT book on how to handle depression. I suggest "Feeling Good" by Dr. David Burns. Have you read it?

Thanks. I have a CBT workbook. I have been thinking that sometimes when I get depressed or anxious I spend too much time mentally trying to get rid of it. The real problem is creating social support. That means going out, joining things even when it feels awkward. I have spent far too much time curled up in a ball reading books on mental health.

I have read Feeling Good by David Burns. My favorite books are by the founder of that school, Albert Ellis.

My problem now is that I am depressed, and also my social skills are a bit rusty from too much isolation. It is all too painful to contemplate.

Originally Posted by DechanDawa

Thanks. I have a CBT workbook. I have been thinking that sometimes when I get depressed or anxious I spend too much time mentally trying to get rid of it. The real problem is creating social support. That means going out, joining things even when it feels awkward. I have spent far too much time curled up in a ball reading books on mental health.

I have read Feeling Good by David Burns. My favorite books are by the founder of that school, Albert Ellis.

My problem now is that I am depressed, and also my social skills are a bit rusty from too much isolation. It is all too painful to contemplate.

I agree regarding the books. I've felt the same way. But for me I think because I didn't apply the techniques. Not just for depression, but for social anxiety and other skills.

I understand your feeling, but as I understand it a social support is a group of people you already know, and who can give you support in your crisis times. I am not sure if you can create such support while at your worst. I think keeping this in mind when you feel better is a good idea, for next time you feel down. For now I think you need more of an immediate mood lift. You told me things I wish I could do, like volunteering, and interacting with horses. I like in particular the lesson from the horses, that you need to take the first step to own them. So, I am using your own stories to encourage you to take the first step, again. I believe the start is the hardest part. You just need to get over your own thoughts, or rather to do something despite them.

[DechanDawa]

Maybe support isn't a good word. To me I mean by "support" that it (the group, community) supports my life. For some it is church. For others it is sports. It depends on values. But you are right. Brilliantly, you have pointed to a big problem. When depressed it is hard to make immediate solid connections.

I think about what I might say if people ask about my life. I might say, "Well, I have been kind of sick for awhile but now I am getting out again." I don't like how that sounds. They might think I have cancer or something. It's not a good image.

I might try the meditation community. If I bumped into someone I knew and told them I was coming out of a bad depressive episode they would probably just give me a hug.

Here is a funny story. One time I went there and someone asked me, "So what have you been up to these days? I said, "Nothing. Nothing is going on," and they smiled and said, "Great! How spacious!" Haha. I guess you can't really say anything wrong to other meditators.

And how did your language class go, Nick? Hmmm? Hmm? Yes, I am talking to you. Did you go to any of your planned meetups???

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by Nickname

I agree regarding the books. I've felt the same way. But for me I think because I didn't apply the techniques. Not just for depression, but for social anxiety and other skills.

I understand your feeling, but as I understand it a social support is a group of people you already know, and who can give you support in your crisis times. I am not sure if you can create such support while at your worst. I think keeping this in mind when you feel better is a good idea, for next time you feel down. For now I think you need more of an immediate mood lift. You told me things I wish I could do, like volunteering, and interacting with horses. I like in particular the lesson from the horses, that you need to take the first step to own them. So, I am using your own stories to encourage you to take the first step, again. I believe the start is the hardest part. You just need to get over your own thoughts, or rather to do something despite them.

Good points. I made a reply. Can you find it?

Originally Posted by DechanDawa

Maybe support isn't a good word. To me I mean by "support" that it (the group, community) supports my life. For some it is church. For others it is sports. It depends on values. But you are right. Brilliantly, you have pointed to a big problem. When depressed it is hard to make immediate solid connections.

I think about what I might say if people ask about my life. I might say, "Well, I have been kind of sick for awhile but now I am getting out again." I don't like how that sounds. They might think I have cancer or something. It's not a good image.

I might try the meditation community. If I bumped into someone I knew and told them I was coming out of a bad depressive episode they would probably just give me a hug.

Here is a funny story. One time I went there and someone asked me, "So what have you been up to these days? I said, "Nothing. Nothing is going on," and they smiled and said, "Great! How spacious!" Haha. I guess you can't really say anything wrong to other meditators.

And how did your language class go, Nick? Hmmm? Hmm? Yes, I am talking to you. Did you go to any of your planned meetups???

But why do you have to tell them anything about your real situation? Conceal that part, at least at the beginning. For how long have you been isolated like this? You said you went back to grad school, are you still studying?

About the meetup, I wrote on the other thread later that I didn't go. I felt sick the night before and couldn't sleep. But I have reserved for the next one. It is challenging to just step out and go there, because I don't know what to expect, but until now I am determined to go . I hope the summer will be more active, as I don't like winters.

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by Nickname

But why do you have to tell them anything about your real situation? Conceal that part, at least at the beginning. For how long have you been isolated like this? You said you went back to grad school, are you still studying?

About the meetup, I wrote on the other thread later that I didn't go. I felt sick the night before and couldn't sleep. But I have reserved for the next one. It is challenging to just step out and go there, because I don't know what to expect, but until now I am determined to go . I hope the summer will be more active, as I don't like winters.

Well, good luck with the meetup. You have to keep trying. As far as telling the truth about where I have been and what I have been doing...I don't know why I worried about that. I have been out of graduate school for more than a few years. I have basically wasted the last 3 or 4 years of my life. In truth, when you go out and meet with people if you ask them about themselves you are off the hook, right? Because other people like to talk about themselves, their family, children, spouses, vacations, and so forth. If they are older they like to talk about their aches and pains. Well, now you know why I enjoyed the horses so much. They look at you with their big eyes and without saying any words you can have a conversation with them. I am also convinced that horses know when you are depressed, and they will be very gentle and nuzzle you and breathe on you with their warm breath.

But I understand what you said about getting out and having relationships with people. Because people always say get out, go here, there, everywhere there are people, and that is just crowds. I think you have to find some interests in common with others and build from there. Even then many friendships just burst like so many soap bubbles. But it does kind of irk me when people say get out, get out, just get out, Sometimes being in crowds of people causes me to feel lonelier. The small special interest group might be the best way to start, do you agree?

Originally Posted by DechanDawa

Well, good luck with the meetup. You have to keep trying. As far as telling the truth about where I have been and what I have been doing...I don't know why I worried about that. I have been out of graduate school for more than a few years. I have basically wasted the last 3 or 4 years of my life. My sister was dying, and I had a weird abusive relationship that took a lot of effort to get out of. It was really these two things that destabilized me, and neither one is something I want to talk about with anyone. In truth, when you go out and meet with people if you ask them about themselves you are off the hook, right? Because other people like to talk about themselves, their family, children, spouses, vacations, and so forth. If they are older they like to talk about their aches and pains. Well, now you know why I enjoyed the horses so much. They look at you with their big eyes and without saying any words you can have a conversation with them. I am also convinced that horses know when you are depressed, and they will be very gentle and nuzzle you and breathe on you with their warm breath.

But I understand what you said about getting out and having relationships with people. Because people always say get out, go here, there, everywhere there are people, and that is just crowds. I think you have to find some interests in common with others and build from there. Even then many friendships just burst like so many soap bubbles. But it does kind of irk me when people say get out, get out, just get out, Sometimes being in crowds of people causes me to feel lonelier. The small special interest group might be the best way to start, do you agree?

Oh, sorry to hear all your hardships. I thought you are at graduate school. Can you go back now and continue if you want to? I am sure there is something that can be done to your credit hours.

I absolutely agree. For me I prefer to be by myself than to chit-chat with others about the everyday life. When I go out and be around people say at the metro station or the mall, I become overwhelmed, and put in the "fight or flight" mode (But this has to do with social anxiety). I also like one-on-one conversations about topics that interest me, which don't interest the majority. Group conversations distract me, and thus I don't involve in them.

To be alone is not easy, but when I think I am good alone, I feel content, but when I think there is something missing in my life, I feel miserable. So, I think it depends on how I view myself when I am alone.

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by Nickname

Oh, sorry to hear all your hardships. I thought you are at graduate school. Can you go back now and continue if you want to? I am sure there is something that can be done to your credit hours.

I absolutely agree. For me I prefer to be by myself than to chit-chat with others about the everyday life. When I go out and be around people say at the metro station or the mall, I become overwhelmed, and put in the "fight or flight" mode (But this has to do with social anxiety). I also like one-on-one conversations about topics that interest me, which don't interest the majority. Group conversations distract me, and thus I don't involve in them.

To be alone is not easy, but when I think I am good alone, I feel content, but when I think there is something missing in my life, I feel miserable. So, I think it depends on how I view myself when I am alone.

I am sorry for the confusion, Nick. I graduated with a master's degree from a three year program, so I am finished with graduate school and have an advanced degree.

I tried online dating and that didn't work very well.

Here is what I think needs to be done. You have very specific goals, such as overcoming social anxiety. I can be alone sometimes and find it can be enjoyable and productive, and it sounds like the same with you. So it is a matter of overcoming whatever obstacles are in the way of goals. That is, to strike a balance, of some enjoyable alone time, but also some enjoyable social time.

I was very successful in graduate school but not so successful with the career, so for me it is back to square one with that.

I expect you are much younger than me. If your goal is to have a relationship then you have to focus, even though it is very hard. Same with friendships, although many friends come and go and that is just a fact of life.

Maybe it is harder in the digital age. Everyone wants the perfect person to be a partner or friend. Or - people don't even work very hard to be nice. So yes, it is difficult.

I think, finally, the key is to be happy with the self. I know that when I am happy everything is easier to do.

As far as social anxiety, I think it is a matter of doing it. That is what Albert Ellis, the founder of what was called REBT (Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy) said.

OK, great you have a mater's degree. For me always a university degree (I hold a PhD degree) was the most important thing. Wherever I go, I can use it. I think there is advantage in holding an advanced degree. So, I don't think it was a waste of time. A time will come when you will use it.

Life has changed now. People are busier as life got harder. The other day I read that the future is for online dating. I think, there is no harm in keeping an open mind about it. You seem like a nice person, and easy to get along with. I think you just need to make some attitude change. When I am depressed and someone tells me to do something, I will be defensive, but with time I think about it, and eventually realize it is true, it is just the way it is being said affects us the most at the time.

I am 33 years old. So yes I am younger than you. I don't want to make the thread about me, but for me social anxiety and being alone and loneliness became part of my identity. The other day I saw a new graduate student, and just wanted to strike a causal conversation with her (like what she is studying, and what her thesis is about), and I did. I wouldn't say it was horrible, but it could have been done fairly better for someone at my age and with my credentials (I am supposed to teach students). I know the premise of CBT is to challenge your fears, so, I guess that one was in that direction. I have to say though, most of the time I want to comment on something to someone I don't know, but 99% of the time I don't do it.

[DechanDawa]

Yes, you are younger. I taught meditation to university students, and have lived in a university town for years, so have been around a lot of younger people.

Here is a story. I knew a man who was late to do everything. He spent his 20's traveling and his 30's getting his PhD. Suddenly in his late 30's he became very depressed. He was living alone, did not have a good job, had no friends, and his hobby was building guitars. (A solitary hobby.)

He finally got his PhD around age 38 and started teaching part-time. He met a student (not his student but a student) at the university who was 20 years younger than he was. They eventually got married, traveled for scholarly pursuits, and won good jobs. Now she also has a PhD and just wrote a book. They both teach at the university.

When this man was in his late 40's he and his wife began to have children. Now they have 5 children.

Up until the age of 38 he was kind of a solitary loner. He did not chit-chat, and could only really talk at length about scholarly stuff. In our country we would call him a nerd.

But from the age of 38 to 55 this man has flourished. He is the head of some global nonprofit, teaches, writes, has young children, and quite a young wife, still. He is a weight lifter and a long-distance biker.

I really don't know how this person succeeded as he did. When I knew him he started out being reclusive and a bit neurotic. I think he developed one thing. It was his willpower. He became fluent in a new language in less than six months so he could go teach in that country. I surely do not know how a 38 year old man convinces a woman 20 years younger to marry him, but he did. I guess he learned to chit-chat! Seriously, I think he found a woman who was quite mature for her age. A young female nerd, but pretty.

I like the idea of willpower. I am going to think about it. Willpower is mental strength. Are these conditions such as anxiety and depression so intractable?

It isn't magic. If you were able to strike up a casual conversation once, you can do it many more times. In fact, as many times as you wish. You need to bring down that 99% of not saying something when it is on the tip of your tongue. Challenge yourself.

You are young with your life in front of you. Many surprises are in store for you. Use your willpower! I will, too!

Good Luck!

I close myself off when Depressed. I am disinclined to put myself out there. But I make use of my mood disorder support group.

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by rcat

I close myself off when Depressed. I am disinclined to put myself out there. But I make use of my mood disorder support group.

You are so lucky to have a mood disorder support group. Of course I am disinclined to put myself out there when depressed, too. I feel fragile and vulnerable, like I am wearing my skin inside out, and everything feels painful. But I don't have a choice. I have to find work, and a new place to live, and basically build a new life from the ground up. So I figure I am going to be living out of my comfort zone for quite awhile which makes me unhappy. Truth be told I am feeling pretty pissed off about my life on top of being depressed. I need willpower to get out there. I think I will also start with some meditation groups because they are a gentle social situation. I sure wish I had a mood disorder support group because that sounds ideal and not threatening.

You might find The Willpower Instinct by Kelly McGonigal useful.

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by Nickname

You might find The Willpower Instinct by Kelly McGonigal useful.

And you??? I came across this title last night when searching willpower. I'm certain I've read and liked other stuff by McGonigal. But again, more reading, more viewing. Isn't willpower just like a muscle that needs to be exercised? I used it today to get myself out of bed, to search for work, to get my lease extended by a few months. It is like you said on the other thread. Just doing these simple things made me feel more like myself. It was great. I wore my favorite hat! I would like to overcome this depression and prevent any future ones. How about you? Have you read this?

Originally Posted by DechanDawa

And you??? I came across this title last night when searching willpower. I'm certain I've read and liked other stuff by McGonigal. But again, more reading, more viewing. Isn't willpower just like a muscle that needs to be exercised? I used it today to get myself out of bed, to search for work, to get my lease extended by a few months. It is like you said on the other thread. Just doing these simple things made me feel more like myself. It was great. I wore my favorite hat! I would like to overcome this depression and prevent any future ones. How about you? Have you read this?

I read it actually, long time (may be 2 years) ago, while I was in graduate school, because I couldn't focus on doing one thing.

Absolutely, willpower is a muscle. The first time I understood how to strengthen it was when I read As a Man Thinketh by James Allen, where he explained that there is no magic to strengthen your willpower, just do what you don't want to do, starting with the simplest things. I've used this simple concept almost all the time in my every day life.

I agree with you that books all but theory, but I think they help give insights, and sometimes affirmation to what we already know at some level. At the end, I think the human mind is mysterious, and unpredictable. Reading/listening to just one sentence can change your situation, and even your life.

My years in graduate school were the darkest in my life, but I think my character and understanding to life and the world have been developed precisely in those darkest years, because I needed an exit from my situation. So I read and listened to many books, and lectures. I also forced to look to life differently to continue, which is called a paradigm shift. I still probably need more personal growth, but what I am trying to say I guess is that growth takes place at the darkest times.

Anyway, glad you are doing better today, and good luck in your endeavor.

[DechanDawa]

Hmmm. Is it true that growth takes place during the darkest times??? Because it seems like I am simply trying to "process" or "integrate" past events, as this is a weak area for me. It seems that successful people don't have to do all this processing and integrating. Everywhere I go I see memories of things from earlier times, and I am always making connections; and I really wonder if this is unnecessary rumination. For many years, even decades, I thought exactly like you, but now I am challenging this theory about depression being productive.

We are always trying to make up a life "narrative" that keeps us (our ego) safe. During depression it is as if we lose the narrative, and that is frightening. Ultimately, there is no narrative. But that is metaphysics, and dangerous territory for me, the depressive, although today I am guilty of reading words by my favorite all-time depressive author, Leo Tolstoy!

I think now I may have read this book on willpower you mentioned because a fact from it has come to my mind. I think I read something about mental fatigue. That is why it is better to not try to change a lot of things at once. I did this with smoking. I just focused on not smoking and did not worry too much about diet or exercise. I think this worked. To quit smoking takes a tremendous amount of willpower. I think people make the mistake when quitting smoking to try to change all their other bad habits, too, but it doesn't work. They end up losing focus on their original goal and go back to smoking. I am certain my success at quitting smoking was from using a model I learned about from this book, but I wouldn't swear on it!

Back to the paradigm shift. That is another challenging topic. I notice that no matter how much I move forward I seem to return to a baseline which includes episodes of depression. In my mind a real paradigm shift would be to just NOT GET DEPRESSED EVER AGAIN. That would be personal growth. But as you can see, I have a via negativa view of depression, and not via positiva as you do.

I hope everyone on the forum is enjoying our philosophical meanderings! We so love to get lost in the forest!

I want the power of my will to propel me into new socially supportive situations. Bringing us back on topic...