[Flibertigibit]

People reading this might be surprised to hear that I am almost 70 years old and my "family" are just my four children, their partners and my 5 grandchildren. I have always been a bit short of family as my Dad abandoned us when I was two and my two younger brothers are now dead. My mother killed herself when I was 18 years old.

This might make you think I'd stick closer to my children and their families, but mostly my relationship with them has been very difficult in all different ways, with not many of them positive. I do blame myself and wonder if I have a personality disorder or something for them to be the way they are with me. Maybe I expect/wish for more than I should but I rarely ask them for anything. So many hurtful times over the years when friends have had to step in to help with things which my family should have done when I have been in hospital.

I have been on my own since my second divorce in 1990 and my youngest child moved out in 2000. What hurts is seeing the contact and caring that is offered to their parents-in-law, but I get virtually nothing. The last 3 years I have not been invited to spend Christmas with them, even after I told them I had gone to a charity Christmas dinner for down and outs in the community hall one year. This year I settled for inviting two very elderly people to my house for the dinner even though I had just had an operation on my hand.

I know I am likely to get my medical problems as I age and I also know I can't rely on help from my children at all other than the occasional phone call. I have been told I have cataracts coming in both eyes and possible macular degeneration in one. I suppose it makes it worse because I live in sheltered housing with other elderly people round me and I see and compare the support they get from their families.

I don't think my children are interested in or care about me at all, in any way, and I feel I have tried so hard for so long. My son and his wife have just visited for the weekend and spent the majority of the time sitting together on the settee playing games on their phones and mumbling to each other. They might as well have stayed at home and done that!

Naturally I have thought over the years about my part in all this and one thing is I am finding aging hard to accept because I never had the experience of seeing my own parents age. The other thing is that as an adult I never had a parent, so I don't think I'm sure how to parent adult children or what to expect from them. And thirdly, because of my background I do find it extremely hard to ask for help, but I have been working on this to no avail.

Anyway, I have reached the end as far as they am concerned. If I tell them "no contact" at least I won't get so upset when I expect/hope for some and it isn't forthcoming. I am not well off but I would much rather pay for any help I need in the future than rely upon my family. It's only using money they would have had eventually and they are all better off them than me anyway.

In one way it seems hard to do this but I really know I am losing nothing because sooner or later I had to give up hope of anything changing, and trying to make it change and now I have. In fact they might be pleased to get me completely out of their life. I have at various times told them how much they are hurting me and that has achieved nothing.

I am finding it difficult in one way to write and tell them but in another way I know it will be like a weight lifted off me. I am not going to make it a long letter full of anger, accusations and recriminations, which would be pointless. The past cannot be changed. I am just going to explain how "no contact works" and say goodbye. In future I am going to say I have no "Next of Kin" when asked and if there's any money left I'll leave it to charity. In fact they may not even know when I die as I definitely don't want any hypocritical sad funeral service. I am opting for a "direct cremation" which costs very little and the undertakers collect the body and take it to a crematorium at a time to suit them.

The final thing after writing all this is - has anyone on here done anything similar in the past? I would love to know how it went. Thanks for reading this long post folks!

[Flibertigibit]

Hi again - please will somebody write me about all this and their thoughts? I have to say I woke up today feeling lighter, and happier than for a long time. I haven't done anything, but I know I will and this freedom I feel comes from finally acknowledging that they cannot/will not ever give me the care and love I want, whatever happens and whatever I do or say. So I'm not "burning my boats" because the boats sailed out of the harbour a long time ago!

I think the reason you feel better is because you are giving yourself closure. Accepting what you can't change is a huge part of healing. It sounds like a enormous amount of pain you carry with regard to their indifference towards you. By cutting ties, you are letting them go and accepting the inability to change their indifference.

I cut ties with my immediate family and extended family, including 26 cousins, all of whom lived less than 3 hours from me. In spite of having mom and 3 brothers, 10 aunts and 10 uncles and 26 cousins and 5 second cousins, I opted not to invite even one of them to my wedding. I wasn't angry at any of them.

This worked for me. I'm not a big fan of pretending to care about each other. Their indifference towards me always made me uncomfortable. I'd rather be alone than be with people I know are indifferent towards me. One shouldn't feel lonely in the presence of loved ones. But it happens more than you think it does.

I believe if something or someone hurts you more than they uplift you, it's better to remove them from your life.

My mother died in 2013, she had 6 remaining siblings alive at the time. None of them went to see her when she was dying. It took 2 months for her to die. One of her siblings was in the same hospital having tests done when she was dying. Knowing she was 2 floors above him dying when he was getting his tests done changed nothing, he still didn't go to see her.

I chose to remove her and my entire extended family from my life in 1999. Her last act towards me during her last few years of life was to ensure her hatred towards me lived on past her death. Three of my uncles have inherited my mother's hatred towards me. One of them said "I feel like going down there and breaking her legs." So her hatred towards me lives on, even though she died three years ago. I don't live with just indifference, I live with hatred. I haven't even seen my uncle for over twenty years, yet he hates me now.

My mother was a prolific liar and at the end of her life no one wanted to be around her. She was diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder in 2001. So manipulation, control, lying, alienation and an inability to love were all parts of who she was. I felt a tremendous relief when the psychiatric nurse told me she was incapable of love. I realised it's not that she withheld her love from me, she was incapable of love. There's a huge freedom in knowing the truth.

Sorry I've made this so much about me, but my situation is similar to yours. If being with family doesn't do anything for you, but the indifference hurts you, perhaps this is the best decision for you.

[Lunella]

I ditched my entire foster family when I was 18, 25 now and never felt better. Bunch of Sociopaths the lot of them.

If they are just greedy selfish ignorant twats then yeah I don't see any harm in getting rid of toxic relationships. But the fact they were at yours says they do care to a degree, but is that cause they care about what would be left to them?

As long as you have some kind of friendships and you aren't on your own all the time then you're alright but if you are then that's not gonna help you sitting being jealous of everyone elses family support and not talking to anyone. That'll just leave you open to mental health problems. At an old age you need to be social to keep yourself going, make friends like yourself and such.

Good luck and all the best.

[Flibertigibit]

clairerobin

Thank you so, so much! What you did was far bigger than what I plan to do in that you have/had that enormous extended family - you are a tremendously strong person. Like you I cannot do or take this "pretend care" stuff anymore.

I have been hurt so many times by all my children and badly lied to by two of them (the two so-called Christians). My eldest daughter is the best of the bunch but that's just because she's better at doing the "duty" thing.

I do manage to do what you did but it takes me much longer to stop and say "enough is enough". Of my two younger brothers one was adopted out of the family at birth. I traced him eventually when he was 50 and he died 6 months later of alcoholism. My other brother and I were raised together but as adults we grew apart and he wanted nothing to do with me. I tried so hard to find out why he was like that and to reconcile. At one time my letters to him were coming back marked "unknown at this address" so I got a tracing agency to look for him. Does that sound pathetic? It is, but actually by then he was the only member of my original birth family left. Anyway, he was found and yes, you've guessed it, he still lived at the original address where I had written to.

After that we saw each other maybe 5 times and mainly just to talk about and let stuff out about Mum's suicide. After that I left it, but his partner kept in touch and told me he was diagnosed with cancer. When he was dying, she rang and asked if I wanted to go and see him. I said "Has he asked for me to go?" and she said "no", so I said "no" too. How bad would it be to turn up at your dying brother's bedside and be told to go away?

I am content with my decision though but it has taken me so many years to finally "see the light" and admit defeat. The hurt is especially deep because I actually feel rejected by my whole family. My father left us/me, my Mum killed herself, my first husband has admitted that he only married me out of sympathy because we were going out when she died, my second husband married me on the rebound and went back to the first woman after we split up. My brother didn't want to know me either, and now my children, so I have to think there's something really flawed about me and that I am unlovable. I know I really need to have some therapy to work on these issues because despite everything I think I'm a decent person with many good qualities (and so do other, just not my family).

At the moment I am fighting the desire to read old emails which were really, really hurtful and untrue, just so I can tell myself yet again I am doing the right thing and why. One of my daughters has always been a congenital liar and spreads evil and totally untrue stories about me. How do families get as toxic as yours and mine (and many others)?

I've also been thinking about the "next of kin" thing and I do have a younger friend who really helps me and calls me her adopted "auntie". I am thinking of asking her if she will officially be my next of kin but I'm scared that will make her liable for any funeral costs etc. If I go to make a will do you think I can just say "I have no next of kin" and that will be accepted? That is what I want to do, but in the meantime I might need someone to act in that role in certain circumstances.

The other thing that struck me about your post is that you say you have no anger - how can that be? I hope one day I can be in that place but right now I am full of anger which I know does me no good and achieves nothing, but I don't know how to let it go. I practice meditation which helps a bit but really I feel a need to talk to someone and at the moment I really don't have anyone who can play that role for me. The closest person to me is in fact a person in the US I had an email correspondence with for 8 years and finally met last year. I wish we were closer.

I have read some of your other posts and I just want to know what makes you so strong and "right". You are assertive, you know how to set (and keep) boundaries, you have a long and successful marriage and you are are just a "together" gal. How come with all that ***** you've had to put up with??

[Flibertigibit]

Hi Lunella,

Good on you for ditching those people and being so strong and mature at such a young age! I admire you!
The fact they came to see me means very little than that they they felt they should. My son spent a lot of time discussing various things that might relieve him of any "burden" in the future such as are there any men in my life. I do have a close male friend of 8 years standing but it is purely platonic and there is no way that's going to change.
I do have other friends and am a member of various groups. I don't sit at home watching daytime TV! But I already do have mental health problems and yes, I do sometimes feel extremely lonely. But as I think clairerobin said my motto is "having no relationship is better than having a bad relationship" and on good days I can see many positives to my single life. I remember once asking a Catholic priest about celibacy and his reply was "Well from what I hear marriage can be far from wonderful". Loneliness is a state of mind and it can be changed.
Thanks for replying.

Originally Posted by Flibertigibit

clairerobin

Thank you so, so much! What you did was far bigger than what I plan to do in that you have/had that enormous extended family - you are a tremendously strong person. Like you I cannot do or take this "pretend care" stuff anymore.

I have been hurt so many times by all my children and badly lied to by two of them (the two so-called Christians). My eldest daughter is the best of the bunch but that's just because she's better at doing the "duty" thing.

I do manage to do what you did but it takes me much longer to stop and say "enough is enough". Of my two younger brothers one was adopted out of the family at birth. I traced him eventually when he was 50 and he died 6 months later of alcoholism. My other brother and I were raised together but as adults we grew apart and he wanted nothing to do with me. I tried so hard to find out why he was like that and to reconcile. At one time my letters to him were coming back marked "unknown at this address" so I got a tracing agency to look for him. Does that sound pathetic? It is, but actually by then he was the only member of my original birth family left. Anyway, he was found and yes, you've guessed it, he still lived at the original address where I had written to.

After that we saw each other maybe 5 times and mainly just to talk about and let stuff out about Mum's suicide. After that I left it, but his partner kept in touch and told me he was diagnosed with cancer. When he was dying, she rang and asked if I wanted to go and see him. I said "Has he asked for me to go?" and she said "no", so I said "no" too. How bad would it be to turn up at your dying brother's bedside and be told to go away?

I am content with my decision though but it has taken me so many years to finally "see the light" and admit defeat. The hurt is especially deep because I actually feel rejected by my whole family. My father left us/me, my Mum killed herself, my first husband has admitted that he only married me out of sympathy because we were going out when she died, my second husband married me on the rebound and went back to the first woman after we split up. My brother didn't want to know me either, and now my children, so I have to think there's something really flawed about me and that I am unlovable. I know I really need to have some therapy to work on these issues because despite everything I think I'm a decent person with many good qualities (and so do other, just not my family).

At the moment I am fighting the desire to read old emails which were really, really hurtful and untrue, just so I can tell myself yet again I am doing the right thing and why. One of my daughters has always been a congenital liar and spreads evil and totally untrue stories about me. How do families get as toxic as yours and mine (and many others)?

I've also been thinking about the "next of kin" thing and I do have a younger friend who really helps me and calls me her adopted "auntie". I am thinking of asking her if she will officially be my next of kin but I'm scared that will make her liable for any funeral costs etc. If I go to make a will do you think I can just say "I have no next of kin" and that will be accepted? That is what I want to do, but in the meantime I might need someone to act in that role in certain circumstances.

The other thing that struck me about your post is that you say you have no anger - how can that be? I hope one day I can be in that place but right now I am full of anger which I know does me no good and achieves nothing, but I don't know how to let it go. I practice meditation which helps a bit but really I feel a need to talk to someone and at the moment I really don't have anyone who can play that role for me. The closest person to me is in fact a person in the US I had an email correspondence with for 8 years and finally met last year. I wish we were closer.

I have read some of your other posts and I just want to know what makes you so strong and "right". You are assertive, you know how to set (and keep) boundaries, you have a long and successful marriage and you are are just a "together" gal. How come with all that ***** you've had to put up with??

I believe some people are given tremendous burdens in order for them to achieve their goals in coming to this earth. We are all here for a reason. The burdens, pain, trauma, struggle and suffering either make us or they break us. If life was easy, we would learn nothing in this life. You know what love is and you know what love isn't. You can be loved by strangers, even if you aren't so much loved by your "family." This is what I've learned.

Family are those who make us feel good about ourselves. My family didn't do that. I don't feel angry towards anyone. They played the role they were meant to play in my life. If someone is in my life it's because it's meant to be. If someone isn't in my life, it's because I need them to be removed. I'm grateful for the experiences I've had, good and bad, because those experiences took me to my "now." This is available to everyone. It all boils down to how you look at things.

In time, you may be able to forgive your family too. Regardless of if and when that happens, you are still my friend. Life is too short to live it for someone else.

[Flibertigibit]

To both of you who have taken the big step to go NC with your families, can you tell me how you did it? Did you tell them face to face, write something to them or just let things drift until it became obvious?

I am still determined to do it, but ramifications are beginning to come into my awareness e.g. what do I do with all those photos of my kids? Part of me would like to keep the ones of when they were young as we had good times then, were very close and have some special memories, but let go the adult ones. But I suppose that is not really "letting go" to the extent of "I never had this family". What do you think?

I have many, many pictures taken when my kids were little. Back then everything was printed. Digital pictures weren't available back then. So I have boxes of printed photos. I rarely look at them. Why don't you do what I did? Go through them, save the best ones. Discard some of them. Box them up and put them out of sight (attic or the back of the closet).

You might want them later. You don't have to purge yourself of physical things, although it's probably better to not have reminders around where you can see them every day. Just put them away on a shelf. You can always throw it out later.

I fought with my daughter from when she was 18 until she was 27. Ten years of arguments is a lot of arguing over nothing. Our most recent argument was totally ridiculous. That was at the beginning of a nine day visit, where she came to visit us. By the end of the visit we were able to be together without arguing.

People do change. But it takes a great deal of effort. Young people don't know how to deal with an older generation. I know I didn't when I was young.

If you still feel like throwing out your photographs after a year, do so. But you really need to have no contact for an entire year before you make that decision.

[Flibertigibit]

clairerobin - did you notice I had sent you a private message? In fact I sent it twice as I thought it hadn't gone the first time!

I don't know how to view private messages, can you tell me how to do that? I'm really new to the PsychCentral website. And although I'm really good with technology, I'm not so great with Forums.

Okay, I figured out how to view my private messages. I'm really not very good with Forums, the configuration of them gives me information overload. I've now looked at my private messages. Thanks.

I've replied to my private messages, but I can't see the reply. Is there a delay in the reply showing up? I muddle my way through using forums like this, so I might need help in making the private message thing work.

[Flibertigibit]

Originally Posted by clairerobin

I've replied to my private messages, but I can't see the reply. Is there a delay in the reply showing up? I muddle my way through using forums like this, so I might need help in making the private message thing work.

I've read your reply and will respond tomorrow - I'm the other side of the pond so it's kinda late here! Well, I have had quite a bit of experience with forums over the years, so I knew how to see and send private messages, but there does seem like some delay which is unusual, which I why I sent mine twice! However, yours did come through. Don't worry, you're doing great!

It's funny really because everyone who knows me, and especially my doctor, groans when I start sentences with "on my forum it said.......". Actually it was on a forum that I met my dear US penfriend who I met in person last year. Some people stay on them year after year, but I'm not static - my interests/needs change and then I move on. Also, after a bit, you find lots of people asking the same sort of questions that have been answered a zillion times and I haven't the patience - I want to scream "Use the ruddy search facility you dolt" but other people just patiently write what they've said before.

I honestly don't think I have enough time left in my life to change from being this impatient person who doesn't suffer fools gladly, but I'm trying. The other day I was in the checkout queue and the girl on the till was the slowest one I'd ever seen, like watching a film in slow motion, and I was getting very irritated, especially as she was serving some old dodderer who was slow too. But when it came to my turn I just let go my irritation and genuinely had a pleasant chat with her. I have learnt that criticizing people and putting them down achieves absolutely zilch!

Anyway, night night for now!