[NoIdeaWhatToDo]

I don't really know where to post this, and am not really sure what I'm looking to get out of posting it other than being able to get all this out. It's a short novel, but I need somewhere safe to say everything I need to say...

My husband came home from work on his lunch today. I work from home, but am temporarily displaced from my office space to the kitchen table, so we were sitting together while he ate. When he's bored, he tends to start dreaming about things - all the potential things he wants to do, make, etc. Today, he turned that focus on me, essentially asking me what dreams I have and what I ultimately want to do with my life. This isn't the first time we've had this conversation, and it ended up the same way it always does - I was triggered and ended up upset and in tears.

For background, he has a job that is not very predictable. I work from home for an agency where I get to set my own schedule, more or less. I work while our kids are in school, and am otherwise free to take care of them and the rest of our home, pets, commitments, etc. I don't particularly love my job, but I can't think of any other setup where I would have the flexibility to facilitate our lives. He can't be depended upon to be available to handle kids, appointments, etc., due to the nature of his work.

In addition to the unpredictable schedule, he's a very ambitious person and is constantly taking on new trainings, new certifications, etc., to move him along in his career or set himself up for a position after he retires from his current employer. Outside of his work ambitions, he is constantly dreaming about different businesses he might want to run one day, or other ventures he wants to get into. He talks about these things all the time.

On the flip side, I don't have much ambition. I keep my head down, do my work, take care of my family, and don't spend any time dreaming about what could be. To me, that seems frivolous; all I can see are obstacles to things I might dream about or how nothing could possibly work with our lives the way what I'm doing now works out. I don't see any point in looking over the fence to see if there's something greener there that I want; it feels like that's courting dissatisfaction.

My husband is concerned that one day I'll wake up and wish I had done something more with my life. Honestly, I believe that is likely to happen - in fact, sometimes I feel like it's already happened. I have the potential in me to do more than I am doing right now, professionally. But since I don't know what I might want to do, I ignore that - if I don't actively seek out something 'greater' then I don't have to go through the pains of either asking my family to sacrifice for something that may or may not work out, or the disappointment of perhaps not being able to pursue it after all or trying & failing. And I would actively have to seek something out - I'm not a natural dreamer, or at least not anymore. I had dreams as a kid, but I can't remember the last time I had a dream in mind.

So he asks me to give myself space to dream up something I would like to try. He's afraid I'll resent him if I don't because he sucks up all the space for dreaming in our relationship. There is truth to that. But while I'm not fulfilled in my work, I'm not actively dissatisfied with it, most of the time. If he had to set aside his aspirations and do something mundane in order to facilitate me pursuing my dreams, he would be miserable. And vocal. Constantly. And it would make it miserable for me. I've been there when he's been in professional placements that aren't fulfilling, or where he gets bored or is frustrated with coworkers, or any of a myriad of (what I would consider typical & minor) issues that make his workday non-ideal. It's all he can focus on and everyone around him suffers for it. It's intolerable for me to be around.

So, in the end, I guess even though he's asking me to really consider it and that he'd make the sacrifices in 6 years or 12 years (our next two windows for him to make a work change), I guess I really don't believe him. I believe he WANTS to be able to do that for me, but I don't think he's really capable of making that kind of sacrifice without going mad. It would be harder for me to live through him being frustrated/bored in his work than it is for me to simply avoid trying to dream something up that would be fulfilling or engaging.

All this comes around to the start of the conversation - we've had this discussion a number of times, and each time I end up in tears because it feels like he's trying to force me to dream of something for my future, even though I know it's unlikely to happen. He wants to assuage his guilt for having all the dreams, having no qualms about asking for support for them, pursuing whatever it is he wants to do next, and being with someone who gives up dreaming so that he can dream. And I don't think he's realistic about what that would mean for him and for our family if I started to dream things that would put an end to my ability to facilitate the life he wants and that we've made for our family. Our life now works PRECISELY because I don't dream and I don't aspire to more than what I do or have now. There's no space in our life for me to dream. And so I cry both for that and for the fact that he's trying to force me to come up with a dream in a space where it can't happen so that he feels better. I think he wants to feel like it's not the way that it is, but I can't fix that by coming up with 'a dream' to make him feel like we are more equal in our personal pursuits of happiness.

Ugh. I'm fine with this most of the time until he decides he has to shine a light on it and dredge up this awful conversation. When I ended up in tears AGAIN today, he finally said he wouldn't bring it up again. Time will tell, but history does not make a believer of me on this point.

[Sunflower123]

I'm sorry you're having a tough time with this. I believe at some point in the future (maybe when the kids are a bit older) that you will be able to work on a dream. Your husband is being insensitive and when it comes time for you to chase your dreams he should can it and work with you. This is a two way street. You say you aren't creative...if you had a magical wand what would you do or be or change? I'm betting some big things and some small. You can start working on small dreams right now. Give yourself that gift. You are worth it. Good luck and best wishes.

[NoIdeaWhatToDo]

Thank you, Jennifer. I'm working on the part where I feel worth the investment. Even my small dreams & desires seem hard to reach for right now; there always seems to be something more important to do with time & money. I need to work on carving out some of both of those for myself - but honestly it just sounds like a lot of work to me right now.

As is his custom, he couldn't leave the conversation the way it was. He came home from work early and shadowed me all evening without actually talking about it. We have houseguests right now, so we didn't discuss it last night. This morning, he needed to talk about it before he left for work. He dropped the kids off for camp on his way, then turned around and came back home because he couldn't leave it alone. We talked it over for 4 HOURS (during which time I was supposed to be working). We hit some major issues in our relationship, but only because I process over time and all my hurt feelings are interconnected. It takes me time to work out what I'm really feeling about a specific issue/incident, and what is just related because of the emotions involved. He sat through that whole process out loud with me, because he can't do anything else until he feels resolved. It was painful, emotionally and physically. It gave me a headache, made my throat hurt from trying not to cry, and made my eyes hurt from when I did cry. I'm exhausted now. We did cover some good ground, but man does it kill me that it all has to be immediate and on his time table. I am a supreme introvert, and it just feels like I can't ever get any space to work through stuff like this. If he knows I'm upset he can't let me work through it in my own way; it has to be all out on the table and right away.

Now I'm fried for the rest of the day. Had some Advil, using a heating pad for the tension in my neck, and just laying on my bed. Conflict sucks.

[nicoleflynn]

Perhaps you would consider couples counseling; a therapist could help him understand that you don't process things the way he does,and you need time, etc..... If he refuses to hear you when you explain your feelings, etc...you will always be in conflict. Everytime we are under stress, the body releases cortisol, and cortisol damages the immune system.....so conflict is also physically dangerous to our health.

When you feel he is overwhelming you, you can tell him that you need time and will talk about it when YOU feel you can, and if he continues to badger you, walk into another room, or outside. Keep your dreams and desires; sometimes that is all we have, and they are necessary in living; perhaps keep a journal that no one will see but you.

[Sunflower123]

Originally Posted by nicoleflynn

Perhaps you would consider couples counseling; a therapist could help him understand that you don't process things the way he does,and you need time, etc..... If he refuses to hear you when you explain your feelings, etc...you will always be in conflict. Everytime we are under stress, the body releases cortisol, and cortisol damages the immune system.....so conflict is also physically dangerous to our health.

When you feel he is overwhelming you, you can tell him that you need time and will talk about it when YOU feel you can, and if he continues to badger you, walk into another room, or outside. Keep your dreams and desires; sometimes that is all we have, and they are necessary in living; perhaps keep a journal that no one will see but you.

Excellent advice.

[NoIdeaWhatToDo]

We've talked that through until I'm blue in the face. He knows we process differently and that I need time & space to gather myself. He just can't let it go in the meantime, so he hovers or makes me discuss it with him. I cave most of the time, because it's easier than working through what I need and then working through his crappy mood because he's had to wait and has imagined all kinds of weird things.

He did agree today that he would try to back off a conversation if I told him I needed a break with time/space to get myself together, but that he needed me to assure him that I would come back to the topic with him once I had enough time/space. Sometimes that would be fine, but I told him that I have the right to get angry with him over something, reflect on it, and just move on if I figure it's not something that really needs to be hashed out. He can't agree to that. If I'm upset with him at all, if HAS TO turn into a long, drawn out conversation where we work through all the demons of our relationship. It's exhausting, and honestly doesn't make me feel very much like being honest with him when I'm upset, angry or frustrated with him or something he does. I'd rather just say it's all fine so that I can work through it on my side without feeling like there's a deadline to sit down with him and hash every little thing out to death.

Nicole, your suggestion about the journal is a good one, but made me laugh a little. That's actually one of the bigger issues we've had in our relationship. Early on in our marriage (12+ years ago?), he gave me a journal as a gift. I was depressed at the time, and writing helped me to work out what was eating away at me from time to time. He saw it on the nightstand one day and decided to read it. He told me immediately, but was distraught by some of the things that I wrote, especially about him and our relationship. This is one of the reasons I need time & space to process; my depression and anxiety can lead me through tortuous paths that aren't based entirely in reality. It's true for me emotionally, but as I work through it I can see that some of what I'm feeling has to do with other issues in my life, or is colored heavily by the emotional state I'm in and the mental grooves my mind is used to in those states. Anyway, that was a HORRIBLE evening where I had to spend hours reassuring him that I wasn't miserable in our marriage, I didn't hate him, etc. All because I wrote something down in a private journal when I was upset, and he violated my trust by reading it.

As a result, I've never written anything else down where he could find it, even though writing is one of the most therapeutic ways I have of working through my emotions and challenging issues. It's one of the reasons I write on PC - he doesn't know I have an account, and I feel like I can speak really openly with people who won't judge me or him in real life. There are no consequences here if I accidentally write something in the heat of the emotional moment, and getting it out can be incredibly calming and grounding for me. So I guess, in a way, this is a journal entry for me more or less, even though it's not about my dreams and desires.

[healingme4me]

4 hours? Interrupting your work? Because you are focused on the here and now?

I once had a family member ask me when I was going to get more of an office career. (er. Um. Not those nicer words) That was back when I started at the bottom of where I am. That was 4 years ago. At that time, my focus was on, much like yourself, the fact that it offered me the flexibility to navigate my divorced life with 3 kids, 2 in preschool at that point. Even if I remained married, the bulk of responsibility was on my shoulders-no different than how it's been in divorce-better in ways with added autonomy in parenting.

Anyways, what my relative didn't realize was I was slowly developing my career path. Starting in August, job titles and descriptions aside, I become assistant to the Director and get a little office space. My dreams are developing as additional training and certification opportunities arose. 4 or 5 years ago-this isn't where I would have seen myself as quickly. I've toyed with other job ideas and other communities to reside in. But honest- 4 hours? And interrupting your work? Tell him to go buy you a book on the topic. Motherhood is a huge endeavor as it is. There is nothing wrong with complacency in the moment and comfort with the stability that you bring to the table.

Dreams? Moving accross country? Vacations? I don't understand what he's pressuring you for.

It sounds like he's desperate for you to be his idea of happy. And talk it to death. If it were me, I would simply say "I love you but I don't want to talk about it right now". Then, I would repeat that as many times as needed.

Some people are dreamers and live in the future they create. And good for them...

Some people prefer the reliability of the here-and-now. And good for them, too...

Without one, the other isn't likely to happen. I see that as a positive thing.

I'm so SO sorry that this causes you such distress. He should be more compassionate about that...

[NoIdeaWhatToDo]

Thank you healingme4me and sophiesmom - I think that kind of understanding and compassion is what I'm really looking for right now. Sophiesmom, I think you hit the nail on the head. He wants me to be happy, but he can only conceive of it the way he feels it. He's a total dreamer, visionary, whatever you want to call it. He wants to plan for the next phase and work towards a goal. But he's so often all in the clouds about it; I'm much more concrete. When he talks about a goal or a dream, I hear it in terms of all the tasks that need to be managed and accomplished in order to make that work. His dreams often work because I help manage the details.

His fear, and it's understandable and frankly something I'm a little afraid of myself, is that one day down the road, I'll wake up and feel empty, like I haven't got anything in our life that feeds me. And that I'll resent him for it, because his dreams are so constant and overwhelming that I don't have the time/space to develop any of my own. I don't think that's an unrealistic fear. I don't want to resent him, but I don't know how to dream the way he does, and it really doesn't feel like there is space in our relationship for two people who dream on that scale.

The weekend was much better. After talking it to death on Friday, he was able to be more relaxed about it all and feel like we'd addressed some core issues. I don't think he gets that while he fears I may someday resent him for not fulfilling my dreams, the reality is that I resent him here and now for what feels like punishing me when my feelings/reactions make him feel upset or concerned. We've had ongoing discussions about how I'm not always honest with him about how I'm feeling - and I brought up on Friday that a 4-hour session during my workday that's completely and utterly emotionally EXHAUSTING does not entice me to share my feelings with him honestly when I'm upset. He really doesn't get that.

And the 4 hours were partially my choice - at one point it was clear I was just done, so he said we could table it while I pull myself together as long as I let him know when I was ready to circle back to it and get some resolution. I just stared at him with my jaw hanging and asked what on earth kind of resolution he was possibly seeking at this point. I told him since I was already completely emotionally distraught, it was the best time to finish whatever he needed. I had no interest in feeling better just to revisit the whole thing again at a later time.

If we went to couples counseling specifically to work on issues of communication and learning how to live with each other's communication style and work with it, does anyone know how long that sort of arrangement takes? I have a therapist that I used to see, and he went with me a couple of times, but he was completely defensive in there, even though he didn't think he was. It's an ongoing theme with him, I think - he WANTS to say/do the right things, but in reality it's hard for him and he makes it so intolerable/ineffective that it's pointless. So he gets to feel good for making the offer to do it and giving it a shot, but I'm the one who realizes it's futile and ends it. Honestly, that's how I feel about the whole 'dreams' conversation, too. It's all well and good until I come up with something that might make him change something he wants; the way he approaches things like that just makes me give up. It's harder to push against him (especially when he thinks he's trying to be accommodating, but is really making it impossible), than it is just to let him steamroll on by. He sort of understands this about himself, but is mostly really not self-aware. I just don't know how to feel about it all...it's like his heart is in the right place, but he doesn't have the capacity to follow through. I'm more of a cynic in general, and I experience it as he wants to say the right things, but they're false/empty offers so that he can say he made the gesture. That's not his nature in his heart, though - it's unconscious on his part.

[NoIdeaWhatToDo]

One example that I come back to in my mind is when I've been unhappy about my job and frustrated that it's not fulfilling. If I mention it, he'll ask what I want to do instead. But I can't think of anything else that will make our lives work this this job does - I'm totally flexible on my schedule, can do everything needed for the house and kids, and don't have any issues or conflicts if he gets called up to leave for a few days, a few weeks, etc. He ha an opportunity to be gone basically all winter doing a training and a temporary promotion in another city. My job makes that possible without batting an eye.

If I mention that I can't think of anything else that would work like this does for our lives, he gets defensive and says something like, "Well, I can just quit my job, then. Whatever you want to do, I can quit and figure something else out. Do you want me to quit?" But he's nearly fully vested in his retirement. Our whole lives have been about getting him to this point so that he retires with his pensions & benefits in place. Offering to quit that a couple of years before the finish line is ridiculous, and it just serves to shut the whole conversation down. It's the adult version of trying to figure out taking turns with someone and just shouting, "Fine, then - I'll NEVER play with it again!"

This is one thing that leads me to not invest in dreaming - I guess I don't trust that he would give it an honest effort if it conflicted with something he wanted. Or that if we tried something where he was sacrificing something he wanted for it, he would make it emotionally intolerable for me to enjoy (not that he would actively try, but he lives all his emotions and frustrations out loud and in his physical demeanor). Who wants to go down that path?

I totally understand you.

You must be effing exhausted....

I think that men are (by nature) fixers.....some men are tenacious fixers, indeed...

[NoIdeaWhatToDo]

That's it - he's a tenacious (and IMMEDIATE) fixer!