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  #26  
Old Dec 02, 2020, 01:09 PM
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AzulOscuro AzulOscuro is offline
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Originally Posted by Open Eyes View Post
I was trying to explain how a person can follow blindly by using the example of how to get a horse away from what they feel is safe but is not safe is by covering it's eyes so it blindly follows. This is where "following blindly" comes from.

When someone chooses to blame everyone else and plays the victim, it's their effort to convince others to follow them "blindly". The problem with this is that they also convince themselves THEY are the victim hense THEY too are blind. This is the burning barn they keep running into.

These individuals tend to act by IMPULSE and they don't look down the road at the consequences, they want what they want IN THE MOMENT. If relationships go badly because of this, it's always someone elses fault.
Thank you, @Open Eyes.
Masks are needed ( socially needed more than I would like to accept) and I myself wear masks to portrait a socially acceptable image, but the problem is when you believe your mask. What can be done in these situations? How do you deal with a person like that?
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  #27  
Old Dec 02, 2020, 01:42 PM
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By age 7 a child learns most of what is expected. They are taught to wear a mask in public and then how things are different in the home.

So masking is very common.

However, it's not really black and white. There is actually a lot of gray.
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  #28  
Old Dec 04, 2020, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by AzulOscuro View Post
Thank you, @Open Eyes.
Masks are needed ( socially needed more than I would like to accept) and I myself wear masks to portrait a socially acceptable image, but the problem is when you believe your mask. What can be done in these situations? How do you deal with a person like that?

I strongly believe the act of supporting those who constantly blame and never take responsibility for their own actions is cruel because you are only validating their maladaptive thoughts and actions.
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  #29  
Old Dec 05, 2020, 12:22 AM
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I strongly believe the act of supporting those who constantly blame and never take responsibility for their own actions is cruel because you are only validating their maladaptive thoughts and actions.
I agree with you, especially when the validation is essentially enabling bad behavior or worse. I think one can validate what a person is feeling without enabling them and without validating that it's okay to act out or take those feelings out on someone. I once had a mentor who sort of reprimanded me for a way I reacted about something, and it was really interesting to me because she acknowledged and understood WHY I felt the way I did about it, but that the actual action I took, sort of in a reactive way, was counterproductive. I righted my wrong behavior and checked in with others involved to discuss the matter and all was well. But I'm honestly grateful when people can kindly give me feedback about how my behavior might come across while also validating that they understand the impulse behind the behavior. As humans we can't grow unless we learn by making mistakes. But if no one will ever tell you the truth, then you will always think you're perfect (not you but you know, general "you").

I always believe in delivering this feedback with compassion and empathy when possible. We are all human and sometimes get fed up with things, so we can all deliver feedback poorly. Most of us aren't therapists but just people trying to help each other, and we make mistakes or deliver things poorly from time to time. We're human.

I really do agree with you though that it's one thing to validate how someone feels; it's another entirely to validate and enable actual behaviors that harm themselves or others.
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  #30  
Old Dec 06, 2020, 11:06 AM
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AzulOscuro AzulOscuro is offline
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Narcissistic’s supply. Yes, this is the worst you can do with a person like that. And very pointless.

I guess they have to get sank to the bottom to see that there’s something wrong. Something is not working in their lives and go to a therapist or wonder themselves.

I’m very compassionate but I have also my principles very clear and I’m not ready to renounce the truth. I can, as you say, seesaw, be understanding of the feelings but I’m not gonna do anything to feed the wrong thing.
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Mankind is complex: Make deserts blossom and lakes die. ( GIL SCOTT-HERSON)
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  #31  
Old Apr 17, 2021, 03:06 PM
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I would feel like resurrecting this thread.
I think it’s very important that a person is humble enough to hear and read what other people have to say. I see it as the first step to begin to avoid blaming others for everything and begin to assume your responsibility.

I’ve been seeing that in the net it’s mainly about finding reassurance and validation to our thoughts and it doesn’t take us anywhere. It’s easy, you can put the other person in the ignored list and you keep going with your own $hit. But, does it help you? You can be in denial for as much as you please, but it won’t take you nowhere.

I lived a period when I was very wrong. Of course, I deal the best as possible with the tool I have and according to my possibilities but I received input from some people and they showed me how wrong I was. Of course, it wasn’t very well welcome by me. The truth hurts. The role these people had to play, I guess it wasn’t a nice task for them. However, they showed me their perspective because they are faithful with their principles and wanted to do the right thing.

It’s needed courage to say to a person what (s)he doesn’t want to hear and courage from the other person to take into account that (s)he might be wrong.
I’d wish it happened more. I would wish we were more open to reflex about ourselves and don’t put the blame or the responsibility outside. Our partners, our neighbours, our doctors, our coworkers...God, the spirits, lol...
If something human being has to learn is to be humble.
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Trying to improve my English. My apologies for errors and mistakes in advance.

Mankind is complex: Make deserts blossom and lakes die. ( GIL SCOTT-HERSON)
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  #32  
Old Apr 17, 2021, 04:39 PM
TishaBuv TishaBuv is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AzulOscuro View Post
I would feel like resurrecting this thread.
I think it’s very important that a person is humble enough to hear and read what other people have to say. I see it as the first step to begin to avoid blaming others for everything and begin to assume your responsibility.

I’ve been seeing that in the net it’s mainly about finding reassurance and validation to our thoughts and it doesn’t take us anywhere. It’s easy, you can put the other person in the ignored list and you keep going with your own $hit. But, does it help you? You can be in denial for as much as you please, but it won’t take you nowhere.

I lived a period when I was very wrong. Of course, I deal the best as possible with the tool I have and according to my possibilities but I received input from some people and they showed me how wrong I was. Of course, it wasn’t very well welcome by me. The truth hurts. The role these people had to play, I guess it wasn’t a nice task for them. However, they showed me their perspective because they are faithful with their principles and wanted to do the right thing.

It’s needed courage to say to a person what (s)he doesn’t want to hear and courage from the other person to take into account that (s)he might be wrong.
I’d wish it happened more. I would wish we were more open to reflex about ourselves and don’t put the blame or the responsibility outside. Our partners, our neighbours, our doctors, our coworkers...God, the spirits, lol...
If something human being has to learn is to be humble.
I agree. It takes an open-minded, self-aware person to be able to look at themselves to see their part in any conflict. So often it is the case where someone wants to completely blame the other guy. (Sometimes it truly is 100% the other guy...) but mostly both parties share the fault for the conflict.
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  #33  
Old Apr 17, 2021, 07:24 PM
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Entitlement often produces a blind spot and a POV that if someone doesn’t agree then they are wrong or at fault.
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  #34  
Old Apr 18, 2021, 08:54 AM
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Unfortunately, there are people that interact based on emotions instead of listening and using logic. This can lead to developing habits of blaming others for emotions. It can become an unhealthy habit of practicing emotions constantly coming from external sources and blaming others for those emotions rather than taking control over ones own emotions.

Last edited by Open Eyes; Apr 18, 2021 at 11:06 AM.
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  #35  
Old Apr 19, 2021, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TishaBuv View Post
I agree. It takes an open-minded, self-aware person to be able to look at themselves to see their part in any conflict. So often it is the case where someone wants to completely blame the other guy. (Sometimes it truly is 100% the other guy...) but mostly both parties share the fault for the conflict.
I agree with most of what you said, only stressing on a couple of points.
Everybody have our Ego, not always we are in the right moment to accept another person’s insight and of course, in the end it’s always up to us our last word and decision. But, at least, don’t silent this person. Be a little more polite. It’s not even needed to have a completely open-mind. Only a little of consideration since the other person took his/her time to reply.

In regards to something being sometimes 100% truth when there are different parties involved, I would see it’s something extremely rare. Very few cases.
And when you see the same person complains over and over again about everyone, following the same pattern. It’s a completely waste of time, it’s like going on circles.
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  #36  
Old Apr 19, 2021, 10:05 AM
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Entitlement often produces a blind spot and a POV that if someone doesn’t agree then they are wrong or at fault.
What I don’t understand is what’s the point on writing in a space like that? Why you just don’t write on a journal. I wonder.
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  #37  
Old Apr 19, 2021, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Open Eyes View Post
Unfortunately, there are people that interact based on emotions instead of listening and using logic. This can lead to developing habits of blaming others for emotions. It can become an unhealthy habit of practicing emotions constantly coming from external sources and blaming others for those emotions rather than taking control over ones own emotions.
And we give zero help if we let ourselves be grabbed by the noise the other person has in his/her head.
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  #38  
Old Apr 19, 2021, 11:58 AM
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Well, I think the key is to pay attention to individuals who say "I feel this way and it's YOUR FAULT". This can be a red flag that you may be dealing with a person that blames outside input on how they feel. That's not a person who is willing to own their own feelings and instead chooses to blame their feelings on others.

This is what I kept dealing with when it came to my older sister and she is very disordered and engages in all kinds of cognitive distortions and likes to create her OWN narrative which isn't based on truth and reality. My sister is very prone to blowing up in rages and doesn't care who she rages in front of either. There are times where the best thing to do is completely disconnect when a person begins to show the red flags and you basically have to tip toe around them constantly.
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  #39  
Old Apr 19, 2021, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Open Eyes View Post
Well, I think the key is to pay attention to individuals who say "I feel this way and it's YOUR FAULT". This can be a red flag that you may be dealing with a person that blames outside input on how they feel. That's not a person who is willing to own their own feelings and instead chooses to blame their feelings on others.

This is what I kept dealing with when it came to my older sister and she is very disordered and engages in all kinds of cognitive distortions and likes to create her OWN narrative which isn't based on truth and reality. My sister is very prone to blowing up in rages and doesn't care who she rages in front of either. There are times where the best thing to do is completely disconnect when a person begins to show the red flags and you basically have to tip toe around them constantly.
Could apply your comments to my situation too!
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  #40  
Old Apr 19, 2021, 12:45 PM
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Could apply your comments to my situation too!
Yes! And you have to work on not absorbing how your mother is throwing her emotions at you. This is a long time habit of hers that at her age she isn’t going to change.
  #41  
Old Apr 19, 2021, 04:24 PM
TishaBuv TishaBuv is offline
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Originally Posted by AzulOscuro View Post
I agree with most of what you said, only stressing on a couple of points.
Everybody have our Ego, not always we are in the right moment to accept another person’s insight and of course, in the end it’s always up to us our last word and decision. But, at least, don’t silent this person. Be a little more polite. It’s not even needed to have a completely open-mind. Only a little of consideration since the other person took his/her time to reply.

In regards to something being sometimes 100% truth when there are different parties involved, I would see it’s something extremely rare. Very few cases.
And when you see the same person complains over and over again about everyone, following the same pattern. It’s a completely waste of time, it’s like going on circles.
Absolutely! If we all considered the feelings of others the world would be a much better place.

I just read a book I found very helpful, “Codependent No More”. It touched on how people can trick us into doing something for them we don’t want to do without them even directly asking for help. I’m more conscious about not falling for this now. So, if someone hints at wanting something from me (be it an opinion, advice, or a favor), I don’t have to respond unless they bring themselves to directly ask.

Then, when someone gives sound advice and the person doesn’t take that advice, I find people usually get upset that advice wasn’t taken. Usually, I don’t feel upset about that at all. There was only one time my mother was going to have a surgery and asked the advice of the whole family...she always asks everyone in the family, who all give her differing opinions...then she does what she wants anyway, which is usually the worst choice. So, this time she didn’t take our very wise advice and made a bad choice. I didn’t lay into her too much over it, but it was hard to watch her suffer after she did that surgery.
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  #42  
Old Apr 19, 2021, 04:43 PM
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AzulOscuro AzulOscuro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Open Eyes View Post
Well, I think the key is to pay attention to individuals who say "I feel this way and it's YOUR FAULT". This can be a red flag that you may be dealing with a person that blames outside input on how they feel. That's not a person who is willing to own their own feelings and instead chooses to blame their feelings on others.

This is what I kept dealing with when it came to my older sister and she is very disordered and engages in all kinds of cognitive distortions and likes to create her OWN narrative which isn't based on truth and reality. My sister is very prone to blowing up in rages and doesn't care who she rages in front of either. There are times where the best thing to do is completely disconnect when a person begins to show the red flags and you basically have to tip toe around them constantly.
Yes, this is a key. Blaming others for how we feel. I have done this to be honest more than what I would like to admit. So, that’s why I’m working on it. And who made me realised of it? Guess who? Another person. Because, these kind of things are normally realised when you are interacting with others. This is the point in going to a therapist, talking about your issues with a friend or ask for support in a platform as that.

Another key is when people talk bad about others in their backs while they play the victim role and place themselves in a pedestal.

I very much think that when a person is at this point, the best is to let the person reaches the bottom and not sugarcoating.

It must be very hard to have a close relative at this point. Sure it’s really frustrating because on one part, you want to support this person but on the other part, you can’t feed their demons. And in the end, it’s your sister, your brother, your mother...

Luckily, I don’t know any person im my close circle who is at this point. Indeed, I’m the most neurotic out of them all. lol!
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Mankind is complex: Make deserts blossom and lakes die. ( GIL SCOTT-HERSON)
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  #43  
Old Apr 19, 2021, 04:51 PM
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AzulOscuro AzulOscuro is offline
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Originally Posted by TishaBuv View Post
Absolutely! If we all considered the feelings of others the world would be a much better place.

I just read a book I found very helpful, “Codependent No More”. It touched on how people can trick us into doing something for them we don’t want to do without them even directly asking for help. I’m more conscious about not falling for this now. So, if someone hints at wanting something from me (be it an opinion, advice, or a favor), I don’t have to respond unless they bring themselves to directly ask.

Then, when someone gives sound advice and the person doesn’t take that advice, I find people usually get upset that advice wasn’t taken. Usually, I don’t feel upset about that at all. There was only one time my mother was going to have a surgery and asked the advice of the whole family...she always asks everyone in the family, who all give her differing opinions...then she does what she wants anyway, which is usually the worst choice. So, this time she didn’t take our very wise advice and made a bad choice. I didn’t lay into her too much over it, but it was hard to watch her suffer after she did that surgery.
Wise attitude on your behalf.
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