[BigBubba]

I struggled with close relationships since I was a kid because of my overprotective mother abuse. I thought I was doing okay these days, I opened up to ppl, especially to women and, I dated quite a bit, trying hard not to blew it and I didn't but...

I ended up realizing that all of that effort was to make girl like me so I win. It was nothing more than revenge for past rejections (I've been rejected a lot bc of my anxiety and my mom tried to convince me it is what it is).

The next step once the girl likes me is me trying to make her dislike me so I can hit back and ditch her. I see what's behing it now - a massive amount of hatred and shame.

I dunno what to do, my T did everything he could and we're done.

[Bill3]

I'm very sorry to hear. Why are you and your therapist done?

[BigBubba]

Originally Posted by Bill3

I'm very sorry to hear. Why are you and your therapist done?

Its been three years and he taught me how push through my anxiety but my motives are still as I've described which is not the success.

[Bill3]

If I understand you correctly, you get along much better with women than in the past, but inside your desire still is to win and then get back at them?

[Have Hope]

Winning is a part of a narcissist's repertoire. It's all about winning and not losing. A narcissist has to and must win and not lose face or feel any amount of shame or self-hatred. The thing is, is that a narcissist seems to suffer the most inside. I would think that your therapist would clue into your personality disorder in order to truly help you. What do you mean when you say therapy is done?

[divine1966]

What happens if you like the girl but try not to make a mess out of it but just try to enjoy her company for a bit longer? Give yourself a time frame. You might find out you enjoy nice companionship more than enjoying winning?

[Open Eyes]

Sounds like you only want a girl for your ego and then you are done with her. Is that correct?

And then you punish her so you can get a reaction so you can dump her. That way you maintain all the control and power. Does that sound right?

The anxiety is fear of rejection. It’s not fear of rejecting or hurting the other person. Its about controlling the drama and that’s what feeds the ego for a narcissist.

[BigBubba]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

Sounds like you only want a girl for your ego and then you are done with her. Is that correct?

And then you punish her so you can get a reaction so you can dump her. That way you maintain all the control and power. Does that sound right?

The anxiety is fear of rejection. It’s not fear of rejecting or hurting the other person. Its about controlling the drama and that’s what feeds the ego for a narcissist.

Yeah, 100% true. But you have to understand that I don't want it to be that way. This was not my intention and I'm not happy with how it is. Can you imagine that?

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

Sounds like you only want a girl for your ego and then you are done with her. Is that correct?

And then you punish her so you can get a reaction so you can dump her. That way you maintain all the control and power. Does that sound right?

The anxiety is fear of rejection. It’s not fear of rejecting or hurting the other person. Its about controlling the drama and that’s what feeds the ego for a narcissist.

Another thing it might be is "reject the other person before they can reject me"?

[BigBubba]

Originally Posted by divine1966

What happens if you like the girl but try not to make a mess out of it but just try to enjoy her company for a bit longer? Give yourself a time frame. You might find out you enjoy nice companionship more than enjoying winning?

Well, I'm very curious about the girl, I can be charming, confident, full of energy, but once she's in I feel like there's not much more to do here and I feel like I dunno what to do next and that ignites anxiety and then I start attacking her until she gives me valid reason to end it.

[Bill3]

It sounds like your therapy was helpful within the limits of what the therapist was trying to accomplish--to help you push through anxiety.

However, it seems that he didn't attempt to address the underlying narcissism/trauma from childhood. Perhaps you could find a therapist who focuses on trauma and/or narcissism?

[BigBubba]

Originally Posted by Bill3

If I understand you correctly, you get along much better with women than in the past, but inside your desire still is to win and then get back at them?

Yes, exactly.

[BigBubba]

Originally Posted by Bill3

It sounds like your therapy was helpful within the limits of what the therapist was trying to accomplish--to help you push through anxiety.

However, it seems that he didn't attempt to address the underlying narcissism/trauma from childhood. Perhaps you could find a therapist who focuses on trauma and/or narcissism?

Nah, we've been working on my traumas and I know I'm a narc. I know how it works and what causes it. I just can't find a way to break the toxic behavioral patterns.

[Open Eyes]

It’s about needing to have the power. Yet it’s also about lack of self love too. That is something a person develops over time. You are projecting how you feel about yourself onto others.

Often there is a need for drama. This is created for ego in order to control and have power over.

No other person can convince you to love yourself. That’s the plight of a narcissist which is why they have a hard time experiencing a healthy relationship. They often cheat if they are in a relationship. Their ego is never satisfied.

[BigBubba]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

It’s about needing to have the power. Yet it’s also about lack of self love too. That is something a person develops over time. You are projecting how you feel about yourself onto others.

Often there is a need for drama. This is created for ego in order to control and have power over.

How do we cure it?

[Open Eyes]

It’s hard because you hang onto what hurt your ego in the first place.

Did you know that all these shooters are individuals that were bullied and had few to no friends and they learned that most of not all were virgins that never even kissed a girl. They destroy what they see is that environment and then themselves. It’s all self hate.

The good news is you are still young. What hurt you was never your fault. It’s ok to be vulnerable. And not be so hard on yourself

[BigBubba]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

Did you know that all these shooters are individuals that were bullied and had few to no friends and they learned that most of not all were virgins that never even kissed a girl. They destroy what the see is that environment and then themselves. It’s all self hate.

Yeah that was me until 25. Though since then I found friends and girlfriends - perhaps it didn't work as it should but I've made some progress. But I have to admit - hurting people crossed my mind more than once back in a day. It truly does work like that. But why do you even mention this? I don't see it as a solution.

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by BigBubba

Well, I'm very curious about the girl, I can be charming, confident, full of energy, but once she's in I feel like there's not much more to do here and I feel like I dunno what to do next and that ignites anxiety and then I start attacking her until she gives me valid reason to end it.

Are you naturally full of energy and charming or you act to get the girls to like you? Well are they boring people with no depth? Otherwise wouldn’t there be something you’d still have to talk to them about or do things together? Are you looking for a particular type? Someone like your mother or opposite of your mother?

[BigBubba]

Originally Posted by divine1966

Are you naturally full of energy and charming or you act to get the girls to like you? Well are they boring people with no depth? Otherwise wouldn’t there be something you’d still have to talk to them about or do things together? Are you looking for a particular type? Someone like your mother or opposite of your mother?

No, I'm only charming and full of energy toward girls I'm attracted to or people I need for other purposes (for example work). Those folks are interesting and attractive! The problem is I "go off" once they start to like me, no matter how cool they are.

Those girls I hang around with were the type I was looking for. Still, my goal seemed to be to get them to like me and ditch them. I'm looking for a way that can break that pattern because it sucks!

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by BigBubba

No, I'm only charming and full of energy toward girls I'm attracted to or people I need. Those folks are interesting and attractive! The problem is I "go off" once they start to like me, no matter how cool they are.

Those girls I hang around with were the type I was looking for. Still, my goal seemed to be to get them to like me and ditch them. I'm looking for a way that can break that pattern because it sucks!

Patterns are hard to break. People naturally gravitate towards familiar no matter how unhealthy it is. I don’t know how old you are (late 20s?) but could you completely put dating on a back burner at the moment? Right now it doesn’t do you any good. You might not be ready to break the pattern. Is there something else you could focus on?

[Open Eyes]

Originally Posted by BigBubba

Yeah that was me until 25. Though since then I found friends and girlfriends - perhaps it didn't work as it should but I've made some progress. But I have to admit - hurting people crossed my mind more than once back in a day. It truly does work like that. But why do you even mention this? I don't see it as a solution.

I mentioned it because I recently read about it. I am glad they are learning about this so more can be done to prevent it.

I myself suffer from narcissistic abuse and ptsd. I have been learning about this in therapy. I now look for the red flags and distance.

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by BigBubba

No, I'm only charming and full of energy toward girls I'm attracted to or people I need. Those folks are interesting and attractive! The problem is I "go off" once they start to like me, no matter how cool they are.

Those girls I hang around with were the type I was looking for. Still, my goal seemed to be to get them to like me and ditch them. I'm looking for a way that can break that pattern because it sucks!

Patterns are hard to break. People naturally gravitate towards familiar no matter how unhealthy it is. I don’t know how old you are (late 20s?) but could you completely put dating on a back burner at the moment? Right now it doesn’t do you any good. You might not be ready to break the pattern. Is there something else you could focus on?

But if you want to continue trying, could you fake it until you make it? I mean try to be nice for a bit longer and see where it leads. Being nasty is easier but it sure will lead to lonely life. Good and smart women will not be falling for it. Young girls might. As women mature they have less interest in bad behaviors. Smart independent women won’t stick around BS. You’ll be alone. If you could fake being nice for long enough, might it become a second nature?

Also therapists often advice to go for a completely different type than you normally go for. That helps to break the pattern. You might be going for ditzy girls who fall for your tricks. Look for high value women. Less focus on looks and charisma. More on depth.

[Bill3]

Those girls I hang around with were the type I was looking for. Still, my goal seemed to be to get them to like me and ditch them. I'm looking for a way that can break that pattern because it sucks!

It sounds like right now you have made a lot of progress but in the end you are still driving women away?

[Open Eyes]

It’s possible that this hate is actually fear. Does that sound right?

[BigBubba]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

It’s possible that this hate is actually fear. Does that sound right?

Sure, I don't deny I'm embarrassed when I think about my past. Not having sex until 25. No serious relationships until now (I'm 27). Being a suicidal wreck at 21. Allowing my mother to step on me. I think girls could think less of me because of that and so I try to tread lightly and keep the safe distance. But you know I can't fix those problems unless you give me time travel machine