Grieving my marriahe

My concern for you is the amount of self blame you share. This is actually common in children of alcoholics along with trauma bonding.

There is often an underlying problem in individuals that become alcoholics. It can develop at surprisingly young ages so these individuals tend to be very emotionally immature. There is also a lot of denial involved including playing the victim and blaming problems on others

It’s not surprising you became more aware of how bad things really are during the pandemic It was especially hard on individuals who’s lives revolved around visiting certain hangouts where they are around others that also drink and hangout.

I noticed how it was hard on individuals that have replaced the hangout lifestyle with AA meetings. The pandemic shut all of that down and people had to find other ways to fill that need. Zoom meetings were created and then meetings outside with bonfires. And some returned to using alcohol sadly. Some think they can control their drinking but after a while they end up where they left off.

As I mentioned, there can be other underlying issues involved like a personality disorder or bipolar or ADHD and over the years I have seen different things and tons of excuses. And there is nothing you can do to fill this need in someone that has this problem. And it’s very common to get blamed as these individuals discover the power they get from playing the victim.

“Addiction, in any form, is often rooted in a desire for control. Despite its alluring promises, it provides the opposite. It temporarily numbs the symptoms of emotion being avoided and cloaks the truth, which would restore balance to the individual

*J.Mike Fields*

He/she made me drink, snort cocaine, smoke pot ect. That’s a lie, it was A CHOICE.

Addicts gaslight others about their drinking. They gaslight themselves.

Well, a couple of things.

First, for Beth. You've been through a lot, and have seen more than me in your life I think. I've done a lot to protect my kids in a lot of ways, and have questioned every decision I've made. Perhaps I was too defensive in my response to you. I didn't intend to cast any shade on the experiences you were drawing from in your comments to me.

The second thing... I really began thinking and analyzing every time I may have said or done something to steer the kids towards me or away from their mother. Like... Every tone, every eye roll. Anything I did that effected their relationship and perception of their mom, because I didn't want that. I want unity.

But.... She has never acknowledged the effect of all her anger and irritability towards me on my relationship with the kids. I'm shredding myself for my contributions, and have apologized a bunch. But her hours of cursing me out behind closed doors and how THAT has effected how the kids view their dad is never spoken about. I've said things like, I'm sorry for the tone I used with your mom. It was disrepectful. I shouldn't have, and you shouldn't in your own homes. There's never been a time she's apologized to the kids for what she's said to me.

Yeah, I think I've done wrong. I also think I've accepted more blame than I should have.

And any push-back from me to say, I don't accept that blame. Let's talk about your contributions to the issues, have been met with suggestions to divorce since years. I've been coerced into accepting more and more blame.


I've posted on here when I'm basically in a period if being utterly overwhelmed and I have no other outlet.

I appreciate your concern, but when I'm not here it means I'm ok and I'm accessing real life supports.

This is really scary and uncertain, and I'm so scared to give up all the things I fought and worked for for so long.

Thanks everyone

RDM

@RDMercer, actually there are a lot of people who feel the way you do and stay because they don’t want to lose everything they worked hard for.

Just so you know? Your wife knows this and taps on it with her divorce threats because she gets power from doing so.

I think divorce was a threat to cause panic in me for a long time.

But intentionally or unintentionally it grew past that.

RDM

It takes time to learn how not to respond to these threats. To understand it’s her showing her weakness and does this to have a sense of power and control

I have had to learn about this myself. I know how hard this is and it hurts because it’s not something you would do. Weak people tell you their fears all the time if you learn how to listen.

You don’t have to be mean and cold to have boundaries. You made some mistakes, you are human and you have admitted your wrongs and have been accountable. So you had hard times and got help from parents. A lot of people have experienced that, it’s hard to make it out there and have a home and autos and insurance and all the expenses.

You have a right to have boundaries. And that was something you did not really have with your alcoholic parent.

My wife has taken huge issue with how I've turned to my parents for help at times, but it is also true that she undermined my attachment to her a lot, and just wasn't willing or able to be the support I needed at times.

I

Her issue though. This is revealing a lack in her. That maybe she isn’t doing her part so there is shame involved.

I have neighbors that inherited money and did not have a mortgage. Have a very nice antique home. Have met others that have what they have because of trust funds etc. Some people are ahead due to family/parents. Nothing wrong with that, the only time I find fault is when these people act upity and look down on others who have to work hard for what they have.

Don’t let your wife hand you her shame and inadequacies.

I’m struggling to understand why she would object to you turning to your parents for support? That doesn’t sound like a loving reaction to me.

Do you think it’s jealousy of your relationship with them? Do you feel she’s trying to isolate you from outside support?

OP's wife has not been giving loving reactions for a long time. My impression from OP's posts is that she will complain and attack no matter what he does, and she didn't support him when did come to her. Thus, in my view, OP would be wise to disregard her complaints, not take her criticisms to heart, and focus on getting himself and his kids to safety.

Good points.

Trying to understand why other people do what they do is often a waste of time as we can not get a full answer and we can’t change the outcome. We can only try to understand why WE do what we do and we can only control and change what we do. Not what others do.

If she wants to question why are abused people seeking help from their parents/family/close friends, then she is really clueless. It’s only normal and expected for people in drastic situations seek help from loved ones. And if help was financial, then she needs to understand that if she is refusing to contribute to family’s finances, then she puts her family in a situation where they sometimes have to seek help elsewhere. Not for her to question it

This is so sad

Unfortunately, along with alcoholism comes a tremendous amount of lack of self awareness.

Self awareness in NOT “I feel, I need, I
Want” or constantly faulting others. It’s not putting someone down for caring or offering to step in and help. It’s not putting someone down for needing
To grieve a loss and instead expecting them to focus on your needs.

Self awareness is actually paying attention to how you treat others. It’s not about having top billing or constant drama, drama, drama.

I'm sorry. It is like a death, in a way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travelinglady I'm sorry. It is like a death, in a way.

A bad marriage is much worse than death. With death there's the grief and moving on. A bad marriage is like dying over and over and over, it never stops, just dying again, every single day.

Hey, RD,

I think I posted to an earlier thread of yours. All I can say is- wow. I could have written so much of your posts, right down to the finer details. My situation is with my husband being the dramatic/I'll one. I've questioned my own sanity more times than I can count.

My kid has also ended up involved at times, and I can honestly say that as I've thought about it, it's not as inappropriate as some people make it out to be. They are not in my shoes or yours. That's not to say that kids should be dragged into it, or told to pick sides, or anything like that. But, my kid basically lives in a house that doesn't make sense some days, and I don't want her thinking that what goes on with him is in anyway normal or acceptable. To keep her out of it completely would be very confusing for her. Very dysfunctional. She is an older teen, and things are age appropriate. I personally feel that to not give my daughters experiences a voice is to continue generational abuse and dysfunction. Again, nobody else is here in my situation or shoes o judge specifically what goes on here. The same is true with your situation.

I don't have much time, but someone on this forum posted about a book titled "The Verbally Abusive Relationship.". Whoever did that, THANK YOU! That book has given me so much insight about communication styles and why my marriage doesn't work. I still think he's got other problems, but the book helped me understand his control. The basic gyst is that while Im trying to work on having a mutual relationship, he's in a different reality where hes struggling for control over situations. He's not interested in my compromise or mutuality, he's interested in making sure things go his way. It's an interesting perspective on how minds can work, and some of us just give them the benefit of the doubt. Often for a really long time.

My dh does seem to have cognitive problems caused by who knows what. He forgets things, gets confused, etc. He also generally can't see these things, or says he can't, so like you, I'm concerned about brain function. Despite that, I've learned to back off and take care of myself and my daughter. Brain issues or not, we're still allowed to have strong boundaries. As someone else said, boundaries aren't mean or hurtful. They're about you doing that you need to do to take care of yourself. You have a right to be healthy too!

RD, I posted very quickly last night and am not sure it was very clear that I thought that book might possibly be of interest to you as well. It sounds like you may be a giver while she's a taker, and it's very good at explaining the dynamic and even why it can take many years before one realizes what's going on. I now see smaller signs going back thirty years, though for a long time I thought he was good until just a few years ago. In regard to dementia or other brain issue possibilities, it's sometimes said that when that happens, you will often see existing personality traits exacerbated. I suspect that is what is going on with my DH. Bad personality traits + physiological damage of some kind = a new, worse level of the first. Maybe?

Good luck to you, but please take care of yourself first.

ArmorPlate108, can relate to so much of what you are saying.

In my case, problem is my mother and her unacceptable behaviour. Have got to the stage now that my mental health is far more important than her tantrums and accusations.

I agree with others, the OP needs to consider his and his children's safety. It's unfortunate, but often inevitable that kids get caught in the crossfire. Have experience of someone in extended family whose kids have been used as pawns. They decided they wanted to live with him and his new partner, rather than stay in the toxic environment with their mother.

As I've said before, I wish you luck RDM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Discombobulated I’m struggling to understand why she would object to you turning to your parents for support? That doesn’t sound like a loving reaction to me. Do you think it’s jealousy of your relationship with them? Do you feel she’s trying to isolate you from outside support?

I have read only parts of this long thread, so I may be commenting entirely off the mark. So just in general - I never discouraged my husband's relationships with his parents. In fact, I was the one who "taught" him to send cards for every occasion, to call them for other reasons besides money, and so on.

The problem is that my husband's very wealthy and influential family ran (runs) our lives. His allegiance has always been to them, not to me, not to our children. He is their puppet. They hold the emotional and financial strings. They never permitted him to become a mature man, only a grown boy, forever dependent upon them, forever incapable of being an adult husband and father. He cannot take a step without asking their permission. Of course I resent them - and him for not breaking away and growing up.

It is impossible for us to know why our friend RDMercer's wife resents him turning to parents.

I really do wish we could hear from both people in the marriage.

Poshgirl, I'm sorry about your situation. It seems like so many of us are in situations with unwell loved ones, and it's almost like we are forgotten. No one is going to do for us, we have to do for ourselves.

Beth, you hit on something that I was thinking about- something that resonated with me previously. There is no way to know why his relationship with his parents is a problem for his wife, but I also relate a bit to your situation. My husband's family is heavily enmeshed. My boundaries haven't always been great, but they've been better than the ones among his family members as a general rule. Dh has to enmesh with someone- looking for external validation. When he felt like he wasn't getting what he needed from me, he emotionally abandoned myself and daughter, and reenmeshed with his family of origin. When he interacts with them for an extended period of time, it often means trouble for me. I think he wants that unwell relationship with me and is struggling to force it to happen at times.

From what RD has posted, I doubt his situation is like that, but her perception could be of a place of abandonment, of not belonging to the group where he seems most invested. There are obviously a lot of moving parts and reasons that can be good or bad, or both.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArmorPlate108 Poshgirl, I'm sorry about your situation. It seems like so many of us are in situations with unwell loved ones, and it's almost like we are forgotten. No one is going to do for us, we have to do for ourselves. Beth, you hit on something that I was thinking about- something that resonated with me previously. There is no way to know why his relationship with his parents is a problem for his wife, but I also relate a bit to your situation. My husband's family is heavily enmeshed. My boundaries haven't always been great, but they've been better than the ones among his family members as a general rule. Dh has to enmesh with someone- looking for external validation. When he felt like he wasn't getting what he needed from me, he emotionally abandoned myself and daughter, and reenmeshed with his family of origin. When he interacts with them for an extended period of time, it often means trouble for me. I think he wants that unwell relationship with me and is struggling to force it to happen at times. From what RD has posted, I doubt his situation is like that, but her perception could be of a place of abandonment, of not belonging to the group where he seems most invested. There are obviously a lot of moving parts and reasons that can be good or bad, or both.

"Enmeshed" - yes, that's the term. I married my husband when I was 18, he was 34. I worshiped him. He worshiped (truly) his parents and older siblings. I was madly in love, gave and gave. There was absolutely no reason for him to turn to them over me and our children except that he had been strongly conditioned to deify his family from the moment he took his first breath.

Hi,

OP here.

Beth... Why does she resent me going to my parents?

Because I didn't have good boundaries with them, and because she BELIEVED the boundaries were worse than they actually were.

Examples... Big and small. My wife had progressing health problems. I didn't turn to friends or neighbors, but I did turn to my parents. I needed to talk, I was scared. My wife was sick, and during illness often angry and abrupt. She also dealt with depression and was easy to wound. During this time her side of the family cut contact with her. The kids were younger and wanted and needed aunts, uncles, grandparents, etc.

I didn't keep my parents away from us. I opened up to them more and more, both because I needed support, and I needed their understanding. My parents are very, very well intentioned people who are not the most emotionally intelligent. Great intentions, and completely miss the mark at times. I overshared about my wife's health and family issues because I wanted my parents' support, and I wanted them to "jump in" more with our family; see the grand kids more, be around more, have some positivity. They didn't. So I told them MORE to try to explain things to them. My wife felt I violated the sanctity of our own home by doing that.

I did it because I needed help, and my kids needed family, and because my parents and brother weren't "getting it". And I did it because they would keep it within our family, and they lived a few hours away so no one right here was privy to anything personal in our home.

The other part of this is, there were often things my parents did that violated our rules for the kids. My parents are in a very rural area, on several hundred acres of property. We said, no driving anything until the kids are 14. AT 9ish, my father let him steer a vehicle on a private road, while my father operated the pedals. We addressed that that was not OK. At 12, our son was 6ft tall and 170ish. His grandfather put him behind the wheel of a pickup truck in a field with no one around. My dad was also a licensed driving instructor. My way of handling that was STRONGLY REMINDING him this wasn't OK and kid was not to be driving yet. What my wife wanted was repercussions; no contact for a period of time. This to me was over reacting, because at 12 I was driving tractors and dump trucks, AND because the kids had no other extended family in their lives. I had no problem voicing our family's position, but I wasn't going to wreck relationships over that. My dad and brother eventually got my point, but not before our rules were crossed a number of times.

There were also losses of friends and family I knew my whole life. I didn't mourn these much at home because my wife was at her limits with a lot of stuff. She wasn't open to me talking about these things. So, I talked to my parents and brother during times of mourning. I needed that support, and she felt that was a violation given she wasn't on good terms with them.

My wife resents me for these things. She didn't mind I accepted money. She minded that I bent rules and violated the privacy of our home and turned to them for emotional support at times she wasn't on good terms with them.

This is the thing with this stuff.... There are two sides. I know some of what I did was wrong, but I think some of her expectations were too much, and her reactions were too much.

But THAT stuff.... I could work with that stuff. That stuff made sense.

THIS stuff in the last couple of years is just..... Mind boggling. Truly feeling insane during conversations mind boggling.

RDM

Your wife is an incredibly selfish, undermining, unsupportive and abusive alcoholic. You are far too understanding of her and all of her severe issues, in my opinion.

With all that's gone on @RDMercer, given all options and choices that you have, what would you like to do with yourself and your kids by mid-January? Not what all of us tell you here, not with all the wow, your wife is the devil comments here or anywhere else in your life.

What do you really want to change, or really not change, by mid-January of 2023?