Narcissistic Wife

Do you have a narcissistic wife?

If yes:

1) How did you arrive at your conclusion?
2) How confident are you in your conclusion?
3) How are you dealing with it?
4) What has worked?
5) What hasn't worked?
6) Do you believe, there is a solution, other than divorce?

Please, don't feel the need to answer each and every question. This is not an exam! The questions, are a reflection of what I am pondering. Any input, would be greatly appreciated.

((((((((((((((((((((((((Malachite)))))))))))))))))))))))

My mother is narcissistic, sorry i cant give any advice, i just hope you find happiness and piece of mind sweetie .... best wishes, just wanted you to know i'm thinking of you .... it was nice meeting you in chat today Jinny xoxoxoxoxoxo

Jinny, thank you for your thoughts. It was nice meeting you also!

Malachite,

I have a narcissitic mother, so I'll offer you my insight from that perspective.

I came to the conclusion by talking with my T about my mom, and how much she frustrated me. I felt like she never heard me when I was talking about myself.

I am dealing with it by learning to better care for myself and my own needs, rather than relying on support from without. I am *trying* to find compassion for her, but that is taking a lot longer.

It has helped me to think of her like a drug addict -- she is addicted to herself. It is a disease. I am not to blame, and she may never realize how she impacts other people.

No matter what -- a few sessions with a good T would probably be very useful.

HTH

I also, had a narcissistic mother. It is probably why, I now have a narcissistic wife.

Hi Malachite, my mom was Narcissistic too. What I did was move on and help myself (I guess this would be a little different if you are married!). You cannot convince others of things most of the time and especially if they are Narcissistic! One thing that I realized on my journey is that I was blind to how I sucked up to Narcissistic people. It was like a darn magnet. I would sit and give to others to no end until I woke up one day and realized this. Now I do not neglect my needs. Sometimes you have to sacrifice for others that you are close to but anyone that I am close to now is a reciprocal relationship. My eyes are wide open to Narcissists now!

I guess you should talk to my dad! My dad is the most wonderful person in the whole world. I think that he married my mom because he had low self-esteem and was painfully shy so this self-absorbed woman was a perfect fit at the time. I have had conversations with him about this and he really does see her good points and I guess fell in love with them. She would never intentionally hurt anyone or anything. She does have a kind heart in there afterall.

One thing that I noticed with my mom is that she just didn't have a mental schema for me so she couldn't see me, understand me, remember anything about my attributes. She was really disconnected from reality and never took in any info. Any info that she did collect was biased by her warped view of reality. Interesting stuff..... She has improved over the years. I think what helped is that our family quit revolving around her. She was the mom and we were just kids and my dad just went along. I grew up, got better and started reacting to her differently, gently challenging her. I talked to my dad about what I discovered. I think that he might have changed how he dealt with her too. I also talked to my 2 older sisters. Maybe they changed how they interacted with her?

I have come to grips with my mother after I did my healing by realizing that she isn't Narcissistic by choice. Her family was really messed up too.

So what can you do? Learn how to meet your needs, work on your self-worth and personal boundaries so that you can say no and stand up for yourself. Empower yourself and learn that you can take control of your life. Learn to understand and work with your feelings. Be present all the time and understand what is going on with you at all times and in different environments. I am assuming that you will have the same issues as I had!

One benefit of staying with your wife while you heal yourself is that you can correct all of your issues if they are being triggered all the time by your wife. If you get in an environment where your issues go underground then how can you correct them? Also, if you leave her without correcting yourself you could possibly just choose the same type of person again if you don't understand why you chose her in the first place.

Sannah,
I am intrigued by reading your post and all the responses. I also think I had a mother who was, at the very least, marginally Narcissistic. In my adult life, I have been drawn to relationships with Narcissistic men.
In my research, in moving toward being more self-caring, I have realized, first, that I was not raised to have my own voice, to express any emotion, and certainly not to have any of my own needs fulfilled or validated while growing up. I was punished for attempting to do such a thing.
As a young women and thereafter, I have found myself in relationships in which I was doing all the accommodating, all the caregiving, all the encouraging, while receiving nothing in return...since this felt comfortable and familiar.
Researching the Narcissist, later in life, I realized what I had been drawn toward in these relationshlps. I now hate the fact that I had so little self-worth that I felt I didn't deserve a reciprocally loving relaitobnship. But I finally learned what was wrong with my thinking.

Not to be too negative here, but for the true Narcissist, I think there is no improvement or change. That is what all the literature says as well.
Patty

Hi Everyone and Malachite --

I always feel a bit wary when people start using clinical terms in ways that (at least to me) imply a negative evaluation of another person -- she's so narcissistic, you're schizo, I'm paranoid, my boss is a sociopath, and so forth.

For me, this can be a way of blaming another person, instead of looking at myself. OTOH, maybe I spend too much time doing that, since my two most recent posts have been about my defects.

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seeker1950 said:
since this felt comfortable and familiar.
I now hate the fact that I had so little self-worth that I felt I didn't deserve a reciprocally loving relaitobnship.

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Hi Seeker, do you really think that you did all of this because you had little self-worth? I think that it has something to do with what we were molded to do. We did it unconsciously, because we were trained. Once we focused on it and became aware of what we were doing then we could make conscious changes. I really had no clue that I was doing it. I didn't get myself into intimate relationships with any Narcissists, however. I wouldn't realize when I would be in Narcissistic conversations in business relationships or at parties, etc. Now I sense right away when I am up against one and I move on quickly.

Sannah asked:
"Hi Seeker, do you really think that you did all of this because you had little self-worth? I think that it has something to do with what we were molded to do. We did it unconsciously, because we were trained."
For me, the business of being "trained" was part of being raised by someone who was narcissistic. That's what I think. How would a child gain self-esteem when being raised by someone who is completely self-absorbed, abusive and who gives no loving feedback or validation to a child?
Patty

This book might help you......

http://www.amazon.com/Loving-Self-Ab...184626&sr=8-11

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seeker1950 said:
For me, the business of being "trained" was part of being raised by someone who was narcissistic. That's what I think. How would a child gain self-esteem when being raised by someone who is completely self-absorbed, abusive and who gives no loving feedback or validation to a child?

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Agree completely, I walked away believing "if your own mother doesn't value you, you must really not have any value". Of course now I don't believe this anymore.

That's good, Sannah. It takes some of us longer than others to learn this !
Love
Patty

Patty, I concur, with Sannah, i.e., you are not born with self-esteem. You develop it, as a function of how you are raised. Being raised by a narcissist, will impose limitations on your self-esteem. However, the limitations are not, insurmountable, as evidenced by your current awareness.

Larry

Yes, a negative evaluation of another, can be a pitfall. However, being cognizant of an individual's characteristics, allows you to make an informed, cognitive decision, regarding, the extent of your future interpersonal involvement, with him or her.

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Sannah said:

One benefit of staying with your wife while you heal yourself is that you can correct all of your issues if they are being triggered all the time by your wife. If you get in an environment where your issues go underground then how can you correct them? Also, if you leave her without correcting yourself you could possibly just choose the same type of person again if you don't understand why you chose her in the first place.

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Sannah, I see the home as a sanctuary, where one should be able to rest and rejuvenate, a place where one can let down their guard. One should not have to be on emotional alert, always ready to engage in an emotional defensive action, in order to preserve their self esteem

I don't see, how anyone can heal, themselves, while still suffering the same, chronic, insidious, emotional abuse, that destroyed their self-esteem in the first place. My current wife, took over, where my first wife left off. My first wife took over, where my mother left off. No doubt, I need to correct, what brought me to my current state twice. I guess, I got lucky once, my first wife left me!

.

Malachite: I totally agree with what you just said,

"""I don't see, how anyone can heal, themselves, while still suffering the same, chronic, insidious, emotional abuse, that destroyed their self-esteem in the first place."""

I could add more perspective on this, but it would take too long. Just know I do understand what you are saying.
Patty

Hi Malachite, I agree with you. I guess it depends how bad it is.

This is a tough one (but no more difficult than others in a sense) as it comes down to the views and opinions you have about yourself and how willing you are to stick to your guns.

self evaluation is a necessary part of life. we all do it. whether to improve a situation or gain a skill. others opinions and input are sometimes necessary (almost mandatory) in order for progression to happen.

one thing i have learned to do is this: REGARDLESS of the situation i will almost ALWAYS find someone i know who i would consider to be the Subject Matter Expert in the field of information i am seeking. if my wife isnt that person, then i don't pick her. if i know beyond the shadow of a doubt that her opinion is just that - i take it for what it is and move forward. sometimes this is pretty hard to do depending on how mentally prepared i am to accept her opinion (as it is important to me more often than not)

in treat others in the same fashion when necessary, but i one thing i DONT do is just blow them off if i dont value their opinion (which more often than not is the case). it was a hard skill for me to gain, and harder to keep consistant with.

1) How did you arrive at your conclusion?

well i came to this conclusion when i realized that my wife had very low opinions of pretty much everything about me (this is of course related to her illness)

2) How confident are you in your conclusion?

i would say about 90% - its hard to be on point with the changes in her mood. sometimes its her talking sometimes its the BPD. this gets me in trouble though as sometimes i jump to conclusions about the mood she is in and just wave it off as BPD.

3) How are you dealing with it?

i'll have to get back to you on this one. its a day to day thing. i can say though that i am drawing very close to making a permanent decision about things.

4) What has worked?

well.... my first way of dealing with it (walking on eggshells) basically drove me to frustration. i am a very assertive person by nature so this doesnt work out too well with a narcissistic personality around. my next tactic was to just confront the narcissism as happened and squash it as i was plain sick and tired of it. well...... that just made things pretty much worse - and then i came accross as the mean, accusing, monster of an as$ that she accused me to be. basically it was self-fullfilling as i came to realize.

5) What hasn't worked?

above.

6) Do you believe, there is a solution, other than divorce?

i don't know. it depends on whether each person is willing to work on a solution and admit their mistakes. time heals nothing. it depends on each person's resolve and if there is anything left to recover. as for myself i have very nearly reached my breaking point. i can't referee for my wife's behavior anymore than i can for my own. i also can't sit around and watch my own life wither away trying to 'fix' or mend a realtionship with her self-destructive behavior. if the person is willing to see their mistakes and make ACTUAL progress in contract-like fashion with a therpapist then i don't know how else it will work.

IMHO

Malachite, I had a narcissistic partner. We are now getting divorced. I didn't know narcissist was the name of his personality until fairly recently. For me, knowing his official label really wouldn't have helped things.

Some of the strategies I used to stay in the marriage for 20+ years were:
1) Lay low and always let him have his way and think he is right. He would become intolerable and extra abusive if I ever expressed an opinion he interpreted as different or at odds from his.
2) Seek out friendship and support outside the marriage. Cultivate fulfilling friendships with others and eliminate expectations that he would care about me or be interested in my life. With strong outside friends, I got a lot of my "friendship" needs fulfilled and didn't have to expect this from him. And with no expectations there are no disappointments.

I really wish I had not done these things and left the relationship sooner, but these strategies did allow me to last for a long time. This had some benefit as my girls got to be in a two parent family for quite a few years, which I think had some advantages.

A solution other than divorce? I think if I had been really, really assertive right from the beginning and insisted on therapy early, maybe we might have been able to improve our relationship. But maybe not.

I disagree with the notion that we are not born with self-esteem. Most babies seem to arrive (after the crying and helpless part) with boundless curiosity and trust. It is the environment that teaches us not to trust, to be fearful, and what all our faults and defects are. If it weren't for the social conditioning of our environments (that is, our families, teachers, etc.), I wonder if we might all be pretty well-balanced.

wants2fly:

your theory, while thinking it obvious, it actualy a part of Erikson's theory of devolpment for young children. (Erikson was a psychologist much like Freud). he had a much different approach to development than others, as his was based more on the functional rather than the theoretical.

during a certain age a child learns trust/mistrust from their parents - usually between infancy and toddler (according to Erikson). much of this comes from the mother's ability to mother. is the child fed and cares for etc. these are the basic building blocks of trust and will form a childs reaction to demands and expectations of people it depends on for survival and coping.

again all according to Erikson.