[StarPonysMama]

I'm certainly not trying to be sexist here and guys - please feel free to post repsonses. I just have a question.

Why do men lie? Why do they lie even when they know that history repeats itself and us intelligent women pick up on that? Do they not know that we are intuitive and can read people? I've always had a knack for reading people - my problem is I don't listen very well to my gut feelings. Have they just not learned to communicate properly?

Why do they lie when they know that you know the truth? I have had many long term relationships and for sure there have been many that would never ever lie to me but what is this character defect that causes people to lie? I know women do too - but for this particular thread - I am curious of the male gender.

Is there something in certain kinds of upbringing that triggers this?

I'm just looking for guidance here I guess. I've got a call into my therapist - see if I can get a super fast appointment today. But in the meantime - how much lying do you take from someone before you just say Screw it!

[seeker1950]

Star...you said, " I've always had a knack for reading people - my problem is I don't listen very well to my gut feelings."
That has been true for me as well, and when my gut tells me I'm being lied to, I start feeling anxiety mostly. While I'm sure there are nice, honest men out there, my exp has been with the dishonest sort, and I'm not exaggerating. I've always gone into a relationship with the best of intentions, working for the good of both, but that has not been the case with the other, in my experience. I would rather be alone than feel the kind of doubt (self-doubt as well) and anxiety that this has produced.
Patty

[StarPonysMama]

Anxiety is the word for the day seeker1950 - I know what you feel - I'm there right now.

And what makes me even more upset is this is being twisted to make it my fault. And I quote from this person's lips this morning, "I know I've done this same thing in the past but I swear this time it was different." My heart and head are in agreement this time that this lie was calculated for reasons that are too long to type.

I've got to learn to listen to that gut.

And except for my love of cuddling and tenderness, I totally understand being alone - it almost seems easier at this point.

Thanks for your post. Glad to know I am not alone.

[CedarS]

I guess men who lie do so cause it somehow works for them. Maybe it is an easy habit. Maybe they think it is okay, they have excuses like "everyone lies" and "where does telling the truth ever get you?" etc.

Maybe they believe that since life isn't fair and everyone supposedly owes them something - they don't have to tell the truth. Or they convince themselves that they are telling the truth, just an altered version.

I bet sometimes this all traces back to how they are raised, but sometimes not. Sometimes it is their personality and their choices.

I'm learning to listen to my gut feelings, to pay more attention to my intuition.

For me, the more important the relationship is to me, the less I'm able to tolerate lying. A casual friend - maybe, my sweetheart and partner - not at all.

The more my self esteem improved the more I've been able to walk away from bad situations/guys.

We deserve to be treated well. We deserve being able to relax in a relationship and not have to stay on high alert for lies and deception all the time.

Good luck with what you are going through. If you want to - tell us a bit more, how close is this lying person to you?

[Wants2Fly]

Hi Stars --

I'm wondering what it is you believe men lie about. Sometimes, there are communication differences. For example, "I'll call you," means "I will call you within the next few days" to a female. It is a commitment. To a man, it's like saying, "Good-bye." It is not a commitment.

I teach some college communication courses. That particular phrase has been a source of classroom debate.

Most people lie (1) to save face or (2) avoid consequences.

A man may lie to live up to the ideal he believes the woman holds of him. Or, he may not admit he is seeing other women because he fears the consequences of no longer being allowed to see (especially have sex with) the female.

[50guy]

Women don't lie? Right!!!!!

Men lie to not hurt feelings sometimes or to get what they want or because they know it's what you want to hear.

Truth is all people lie, even lies of omission or half truths are still lies.

Have a great day.

[dueNorth]

It's not just men that lie, but that is neither here nor there. I think some people lie to make them selves feel much better about a situation, making someone else take the blame for something they can't face them selves.

Case in point, my ex-wife lied saying I was sleeping around on her and that the whole thing was my fault (so I know where your coming from.) When in truth she , my ex, could not handle the situation at home. Grass is always greener on the other side sort of thing.

As far as when to call it quits over a lie, I suppose that depends on how important it is to you. You not alone in your situation and questions.

[vetswife]

I know this might sound strange, but I gave up on getting the "truth". Trying to drag the truth out of someone is just not worth it to me. If he wants to lie he's going to stick to his lie, that's on his conscience, not mine, I'm not going to stress about it. I just give him a look and say "whatever" or "yeah right", and he knows that I think he's lieing, if he wants to come clean he will, starting a fight over it will just stresses me out and I still won't get the truth.

I guess the subject matter holds a lot of importance, if it's worth trying to get the truth out or not. With what I experience with my husband it's not a priority to drag the truth out (I think sometimes I don't want to know what the truth is lol). He believes his lies are the truth, he's been trained to do that, so I have a losing battle anyway.

[Angel_of_the_Past]

You know this is one subject I could write a book on. But I'll spare the men and vent my anger elsewhere.

[sunrise]

StarPonysMama, I agree that lying is not a character defect exclusive to men. I have known a lot of female liars.

My H (soon to be X-H) is a liar. He thinks very highly of himself and is the sort who always has to be right. He doesn't like to look bad or lose face or seem less than he imagines himself to be. He is very self-centered and totally does not get that he doesn't know everything in the world or that he is not perfect. Or if he does get it, he does not want anyone to know it. So he often lies to make himself look better or if he made an error, he lies to cover it, so he won't look bad or imperfect. (My therapist has met him and says he is a narcissist.)

Anyway, that's the story of why I think one guy lies. Probably each liar has their own reason.

think both lie lol lmao .....

[StingInTheTail]

Of course, like others have said, women lie too. Everyone lies sometimes. Apart from all the reasons already given for why men, specifically, might lie, I would say that one other reason is to protect themselves and the person they are lying to. Not just fearing the consequences of the truth, but simply being unable to admit their own failings, weaknesses and NEEDS.

This whole thread runs the risk of being sexist in the most important sense of over-generalizing to the detriment of both sides. However, I would say that most men have a lesser ability to articulate needs etc which might lead to actions kept secret - though the actions might not be anything particularly worth the subterfudge. Still, if someone keeps something secret one automatic conclusion to jump to is that it's significant and therefore OUGHT to be shared with a partner.
Maybe and maybe not.

All depends on the lie and the reasons for it. This is probably no help at all...

[Wants2Fly]

I agree -- we all lie. That's why I wrote -- people lie to save face or avoid consequences of some acts. Those are the two main categories.

[StarPonysMama]

Just to let everyone know - I know that all genders lie. I suppose I was trying to get to the root of why a man would lie - if perhaps there was a difference than the reasons for why women may lie.

Since women and men communicate differently I thought there may be a difference or some gender specific reason why men would do it?

Ah, regardless, I'm not fretting over it. Sure women lie too - but the fact is - I am brutally honest (sometimes to a fault, I sugarcoat nothing). I suppose because I am so honest with myself and others - it really just pees in my wheaties when I'm lied to.

And especially when it is about stupid stuff.

Point blank I laid out on the line to this person that if they could not be totally honest with me, not be deceitful, and tell the truth at all costs then I had no room in my life for them.

Yes, I know women lie too ...... that's a fact........I wasn't trying to specifically blame men and I'm saddened that this is where this thread went.

[desertnurse1977]

i quickly skimmed through this thread (i am at work) - but i thought i would at least reply...

why do men lie?

thats about as relevant as: why do women lie?

and i am not pointing fingers....... but the questions are one in the same.....

and if i must be honest i think the REAL question is this: why do PEOPLE lie?

have you ever read C.S. Lewis? he was an athiest who turned Christian and wrote a few books about Christianity. In one of those book (Mere Christianity) he points out a very obvious flaw in the aspect of dishonesty in general.

the point of dishonesty is to accomplish a task or goal for the greater good of one person's interests sometimes to the disadvantage of another. And yes, they are intentional - mostly. There is USUALLY a reason for them that the individial will attest to their intent.

in a nutshell - the lie itself is a product of bad things for the purposes of good. you have to determine which end of the equation you are on i guess.

i am sure that as we have all told lies at one point or another in our lives that we can attest to the above statement.

hope this helps!

mike

[gordian_knot]

Hm. This is very interesting, especially the comment about lying about "stupid stuff".

I'm going to try to be honest about this, but keep in mind I have no idea if this is a guy thing or just a me thing, so...

Sometimes I find myself lying about stupid, inconsequential stuff. It's not premeditated, nothing I thought about or planned ahead of time. It's difficult afterwards to figure out why I did it, especially when a lie about something small becomes a big problem or arguement, much bigger than telling the truth would've been.

Here's an example: I was supposed to return some books to the library to avoid a late fee, but I forgot and it didn't get done. Trivial, right? I have a horrible memory, so things like this are pretty common. So when my wife asked me about it, in a split-second half-thought, almost without thinking about it, I say yes, I returned the books. Later, when she discovered the books weren't returned she became upset, saying that if I can lie about something this small how could she believe I wouldn't lie about the big stuff?

Yes, it's stupid and it's dumb. I admit it. Sometimes the words fly out of my mouth almost without thinking about it first. Afterwards I've tried to understand why I do it, and here's the best summary of that split-second I can come up with:

"I'm embarassed, disappointed and frustrated in myself for forgetting a simple task. I don't like feeling stupid, and I don't like the person I love thinking less of me or getting mad at me. I'll make sure and return the books later this afternoon, so what's the harm in a little white lie to cover up my mistake? It doesn't hurt anyone."

Again, this is the thought that blazes through the synapses in that 1/100 of a second. And again, it's dumb-as$ behaviour, and I've gotten much better at putting the brakes on my mouth and thinking before I speak. But my wife was wrong about one thing - small lies uncovered doesn't necessarily mean bigger lies are hidden. I'ts like apples and oranges - two completely different things.

Does that help?