Questions welcome

I wanted to answer some of the questions that Coroalproper and others have asked in other threads, and are a little off of the topics that those threads started with.

I had intoduced some concepts from my own LDS beliefs about three kingdoms of heaven (more here: http://mormon.org/mormonorg/eng/basi...eternal-reward ).

Eddie asked if this conflicts with the parable of the laborers in the vinyard (see Matthew 20), in which laborers were hired to work in the vinyard for a penny a day. In the third hour, others were hired and told that they would be paid what is right. Still more were hired throughout the day, even until the eleventh hour. At the end of the day, all of the workers were paid a penny, including those who had been hired late in the day. The earliest workers were resentful, thinking that it was not fair for some to have stood around idle for most of the day, and get the same reward that they did. The master taught that it was lawful for him to give to any as he chose, and that the workers were not shorted because they were paid what they agreed on.

The way that I understand this parable is that the Lord can give to any what he wants to give them, although some will think that they deserve more because they have served him for their entire lives, and others started at some later point. So, those who learn of the gospel and accept it late in life are able to earn the highest reward (such as the Celestial Kingdom), regardless of how long it took them to start on that path. In other words, He does not exclude or discriminate against those who have not always been believers. I don't take it to mean that there is only one level of rewards. The master can give to any as He finds appropriate.

You also asked about (Matthew 7:13-14) Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be that go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

I told you that I believe everyone will have the chance to choose the way that leads to salvation. If they have not found it in this life, I do believe that they will be taught even after death. Any other way doesn't seem fair. If you will grant me just for the moment that the way is through Christ and the Plan of Salvation, and that we do need the keys or ordinances that have been given only to servants of the Lord who are worthy and believe in this plan (which keys and authority were taken from the earth for nearly 2000 years after Christ's death, and are not known even to most Christians), there are relatively few who have found that strait gate. That doesn't mean that others who are on the broad path won't be shown the gate before it is too late for them.

The strait gate is not easy. It requires a change of heart, and, yes, being born again (baptism is symbolic of being born again). It takes effort, and humility, and acceptance of our own shortcomings. Moreover, it takes faith that Jesus can atone for our shortcomings and bring us back to the Father's presence.

Some will choose the path of destruction and be unwilling to repent and accept the atonement. These will, as I understand it, need to experience the consequences of their choices for a time, but you are right that when faced with what that is like will come around and choose salvation. These may be those who inherit the lower kingdoms.

It probably seems exclusionary to those who believe differently than I do when I say that I believe there is only one way to salvation, through Jesus Christ. I believe that that is true, however, and that it was the plan that we all agreed to before we were born. I believe that I have a responsibility to share what I know, but not to force it on anyone. Everyone, regardless of their choices and beliefs, is a beloved son or daughter of my Father in Heaven, and I believe in treating all as my brothers and sisters. What I have to offer, I give freely. You must choose for yourself if you desire more, or if you don't. What you choose will not cause me to exclude you.

Did I answer your questions? You are welcome to ask more if you want to.

Eddie also asked about mobility or progression between the kingdoms. After the final judgement, I don't believe that it is possible to move to a higher kingdom, although there is progression within a kingdom. Those in a higher kingdom could visit those in a lower kingdom though. And the final judgement isn't immediate. There will be opportunities for teaching. Everyone will be given a place that is right for them. Eternal families are really part of the Celestial Kingdom, and are needed for progression in the Celestial Kingdom. The ties between family members may go a long way towards bringing someone into the Celestial Kingdom whose life may have fallen short in some ways.

Also, I don't see either Paradise or Spirit Prison as permanent placements. They are waiting areas where we will teach or be taught, before the final judgement.

this might sound like a dumb question...

whats the difference between mormons and other sects?

I just had a long list wrote out but deleted it by mistake.

I hope this thread stays open for questions/input to every denomination and religion about their views. I also hope people are not afraid to ask or reply openly.

Do Mormons use the original King James version of the bible ?

Where in the bible do Mormons comprehend the different kingdoms of heaven from ?

You answered the above questions eloquently and are a good teacher of your faith.

To all who read: Why do other popular denominations like baptists etc not teach the different levels of the kingdom of heaven, only heaven or hell.

Mormons believe that we have a living prophet, who holds the keys and communicates with God, receiving current revelation and directing us. We believe that the Gospel of Jesus Christ was lost from the earth with the deaths of Jesus's original apostles. Other churches have tried to preserve what was left, and did preserve the Bible and a lot of good things, but there were changes and some things were lost. The authority that Jesus gave to his apostles and that the Old Testament prophets had was lost. We believe that that authority was restored to a modern prophet, and that the same church that existed from the time of Adam and through the Old and New Testaments was restored.

We believe in the Bible, but have other scripture also, such as the Book of Mormon, which tells about the people in the Americas (descendants of a group that was led out of Jerusalem around 600 B.C.), as well as modern scripture. We believe that God continues to speak to His children on earth, as He did in Biblical times.

I know Catholics have Limbo and Purgatory but I don't think this is even in their most recent Catechism, though they still pratice their tradition of baptisim of babys.

To Catholics or any: Where was this comprehended from ?

I have many,many more questions to many denominations
but will try to pace them, and give others a chance to ask or
reply or give any input.

Yes, everyone is welcome in this thread. Just be respectful of each others' beliefs, and keep it supportive.

Mormons use the King James translation of the Bible. The text is the same as in any King James version, although we have footnotes and a topical guide, Bible Dictionary, etc. that include other scripture. We believe that there are some errors in translation (the King James version was translated from many different manuscripts that had gone from one language to another many times, and some things were changed or left out in the process). Joseph Smith was inspired to clarify some of those errors and omissions, and we also have the Joseph Smith translation as applicable, in the footnotes and in a specific section for larger passages.

A lot of our understanding of the degrees of glory (three kingdoms) is from modern revelation. However, there are references in the Bible such as 1 Corinthians 15: 39-41:
</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

In the bible when God spoke to people in the old testament
it was in clouds of smoke after burning incense allot of times,and Rastafarians believe that this as well as the fact that it says something to the effect, (and the light did shine on their face from the glory of God) kinda like when people get squint eyed from smoking cannabis,might indicated the inadvertent use of cannabis to heighten their spiritual feeling.
There is also many other things in the bible including one of the ingredients in the holy anointing oil that they feel indicate cannabis use.

To any with knowledge of this: What are your feelings?

The God of the Old Testament was Jehovah, who came to earth as Jesus Christ. He had a spirit body during the Old Testament times, but not a physical body (until after he was born). Therefore, He normally did not appear in a physical form. He was and is full of light.

I wonder if cannabis imitates a spiritual affect, maybe by moving people a little bit out of the physical world temporarily.

We still use holy anointing oil. It is pure olive oil which has been blessed to sanctify it, and is used for priesthood blessings.

(Speaking here of my own beliefs, of course).

I just found this extensive site on cannabis use in the bible
for those interested.

http://nepenthes.lycaeum.org/Drugs/THC/bible.html

I read a post in the schizophrenia forum(different BB) at health boards where a person was concerned about a family member being involved with this religion so I investigated it.

Very interesting.

It starts to reference the bible in the middle.

The book of life ?

www.angelfire.com/mt/tabor/bibledoctrine.6.html

This description of it seems to say that everyone go's
to hell that don't accept Jesus and good deeds are not
enough alone.

To Jewish or other religions: What do you think of this?

Rapunzel this also seems to say you have to do it before you die?

Well, the author of that website interprets it that way. My brain is fried for tonight. I'll write more tomorrow.

coralproper

it is my belief that we ALL will stand before God on judgement day and have to account for the life we have lead.

in the link above about the book of life this author contradicts himself. first he says all will stand in judgement according to their good deeds. then later says if you are a believer that you will never hae to stand before the throne in judgement......needs to make up his mind i think.

my personal belief is that All will be judged, believers and non-believers alike.

recluse,good catch

Genealogy of Jesus?

http://pressthat.wordpress.com/2007/...alogy-of-jesus

Now I could just link a long list of contradictions of the bible. I wanted to link to a specific one though, that actually
shows how in depth one would have to go just to understand it to not be contrary. It also points out near the bottom how "daring" of a interpretation this would be and that it was not suggested till after the 15th century AD,more problematically early christians preserve no tradition
identifying Luke's genealogy as Marys.

I don't understand why God would make a text so hard for
simple people to understand, it literally takes scholars to answer these common questions rationally

To me all this does is raise another question about another story. The story of Onan. I will post that question next.

Now in the story of Onan many interpret it different, some think it is about masturbation and some say it is about
birth control and others say its about obeying the laws of man.

Or was it God's law? I know the link talks about Israel mainly, still "sick IMO"

I can see how all would think these things and here is a in depth discussion on Onan.

www.jackinworld.com/library/articles/onan.html

I don't get why God would not kill Cain though for his sins
but be
"so angry and kill" so many for something so petty in my opinion.

I also understand from further research these laws that would "maybe/possibly" explain the genealogy of Jesus,as well as the story of Onan,were still practiced until recent after the wild west days,when they were still doing this.

Why did so many Americans practice this,as well ?

Fear of being struck dead like so many in the story ?

So why all the sudden the stop in this law that God took so serious just in the last "couple hundred" years after 2007 have past since Jesus?

I think it was "sick and very bizarre" for God to take it so "serious", forcing men to have sex with women they did not want to. I would never obey this myself.

I understand others may not find this "law" sick or bizarre, and do not want to offend anyone with my statements,they are just a reflection on how "I" feel about this.

I do respect others veiws on this,as well.

The story about Onan is about the birthright, and responsibilities of birthright sons. The first son of the first wife inherited the birthright and would inherit the majority of the family's wealth, as well as the responsibility to provide for his mother, unmarried sisters, widowed sisters-in-law, etc. Especially concerning the house of Israel, the birthright was particularly sacred and important. In that line, the birthright son was responsible for keeping the sacred writings (what would become scripture). That meant re-copying what was already written so that the writings would not become lost with time since the writing materials they had were subject to rotting and fading, etc. They were also to keep the record current by adding their own writings. These guys were pretty much expected to be prophets and leaders. Even more important, the birthright of the house of Israel was the line through which Jesus was to be born.

So, in that line of inheritance, God was somewhat selective. He didn't want someone in that position who would blow off his obligations or be wicked or wilfully disobedient or selfish (Onan did marry his dead brother's wife, and apparently wanted the perks but was resentful and refused to sire children, which was the whole point, when one of those children would get the birthright, leaving Onan out of it). This was not the kind of person God wanted in that position. Also, it was important to have someone to inherit the birthright (it eventually went to the first son of the second wife, Joseph, since Judah did not produce a worthy heir).

Cain had a very different role to play in God's plans for the world. Besides, doesn't God have the ultimate say on how long any of us live in this world? I might not be remembering everything 100% accurately, but I don't think that the Bible details how Onan and his brother were killed. Maybe when it says that God slew them, it means that they got sick or died in their sleep. I'm not sure on that point though.

I'd have to read it again but I think it said he was so angry at the sight of this he struck/slew him(Onan) dead immediately,she(Tamar) dressed as a prostitute to trick her father in law into having sex with her since the promise was not kept of a marrige to Shelah his brother

Did they have a choice not to mary her, it was the law ?

I read Juda was the one offering Onans brother Shelah to mary her ?
And was the one who did not let him,indicating to me he really had no choice,and why God praised Tamar
for tricking her father in law...since I quess God thought he should have....I have to study this more as well

Why so many until recently practicing this in America ?

had to edit after a re-cap on this

still sick and bizarre of God in the bible(IMO) " To Me" it appears they had no choice ????

What happen to freewill here ???

www.answers.com/topic/onan

Most information I find on this says that Onan did not want to raise a child of his as his brothers, I can understand that.
The above site suggests the interesting thing about this is that the law was not given till about 200-300 years after Onan.

Coral - please pardon this intrusion, I just have a quick question for Rapunzel about a problem that's been bugging me.

My son is having some problems with his military officer who claims to be a devout Mormon. He constantly belittles my son and gives him more work than others - often makes him repeat some chores just for the fun of it. He justifies this by saying Mormons consider black people as slaves, and claims they will continue to serve as slaves in Heaven.

Is this true about the Mormon faith? If not, where do you think he got this idea?

Rapunzel,I see it was Juda who prasied her, now after rereading.

But he was also the one offering his sons,like they really had no chocie...I also see he did not let her have Shelah since he was afraid he'd die like Onan

All looks like no choice for them,I dont see where Onan agree'd like he actually had a choice,or was wicked only that God thought him not wanting to get her pregnant and raise the children as his brothers by spilling his sperm,was wicked and why he slew him..since this was the only reason given that Onan did this

Looks like God did not give them a choice to me, and they were controled by God..someone in this family had to do it

Kathy no pardon needed,this is not my thread,it is Rapunzels

I just jumped at the opertunity to ask some questions.I am inerested in your question also, or any others

I hope others do add and ask stuff.

Rapunzel after reading more and more,it looks like Judah offered up all his sons including Er who died first, thats why he thought Tamar was cursed I see. Did they actually have a choice to marry her? This is what I am getting at since I don't see that answered anywhere. Seems unfair and cruel to not actually have a choice. I also dont see where Onan actually "wanted" to marry her it appears it was a arranged marriage. And the only thing Onan did wicked I see was spill his seed since he did not want a child of his to raise as his brothers.
Then be slew by God on top of that just for that. Sad and cruel to me.

I actually should of read all this on Onan first again, after posting the question about the genealogy, but Onan popped right in my head after I posted, so I jumped with my thoughts to fast on this one before my memory was refreshed.
sorry about all the posts about this one

Still would love to know why so many Americans followed this law soooo long, I am sure many of them felt the same as Onan, who wanted to only raise his child as his own,what I get from the bible.
It don't add to this reason in this story.

Eddie

woow....Kathy this was a A-Bomb to me

www.religioustolerance.org/lds_race.htm

Found allot more links about this subject also

just by typing blacks and Mormons

I have noticed racism in almost all churches here in the south more toward the hispanics now of days though by both blacks and whites, in my opinion, but it is rare to see more than 2-3 blacks in mostly white churches.usually they segregate in my opinion.

probably most denominations ok'd slavery or racism at one time though..just my opinion

Apparently there are black Mormons, as well, but they have had a hard road like with everything else from what I see.

I actually always thought Jesus had to be more black than white for him and Mary and Joseph to hide in Egypt,and this still makes more since to me than all the white pictures I see of Jesus.

Also most evolutionists believe all human life started in Africa and there is more hard evidence to prove this than ANYTHING.IMO

I always believed God created evolution also, since he knew the world would constantly change and all his creations need to be able to change with it.

We would have had to exist with dinosaurs for the bible to be true.IMO

sorry about all the rambling all,I am probably the WORLDS worse for this and repeating myself when my thoughts are not collected first like with this Onan thing as you can see from above since I keep going over it over and over in my head till I think I got it, I will try to slow down for awhile,and collect my thoughts better before posting