Couldn't sleep...

wow this is exactly like in the CwG forums...lol..
i am happy to know that people here understand that we can`t separate ourslevesl from God ...

My "life verse": Psalm 32:8-9

I will instruct you and teach you in the way which you should go; I will counsel you with My eye upon you.

Do not be as the horse or as the mule which have no understanding, whose trappings include bit and bridle to hold them in check, otherwise they will not come near to you.

http://sweetmummy.lifewithchrist.org...ink/34907.html

((((((September, Perna, ladymacbeth)))))))

i am so thankful to see that everyone is able to share with one another here. it is wonderful to see that we all are sharing a spiritual experience together that's message is of love. i read this thread everyday and am excited to see that all are able to share and be loving and courteous to one another. this is how we as individuals can let God's light shine thru us and touch others.

all praise and glory to God, The Creator; that He uses us all to spread the message of love and peace!

love to you all. i appreciate so much the graciousness all have shown here.

Recluse, I heard a sermon on the topic of "If God seems far away; who moved?" I can't even remember which preacher it was that I was listening to, but in his opinion, people do move away from God. They do this by partial or total rejection of Him or by continually grieving the Holy Spirit. In this case, it is the person who moved away or walked away from Him. Certainly, God continues to love His children, but in this minister's opinion, and I believe the same way, is that God is not evident in these people's lives. I'm sure that God loves those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit, but again, He isn't evident in their lives, if for no other reason than that person's lifestyle.

I don't want to belabor the point. Just felt that I had to be clear on it.

I would like to see this thread get back to "loving ourselves as we love our neighbor." If anyone has anything to contribute on that subject, PLEASE feel free to post.

Psa 139:13 For You formed my inward parts;
You covered me in my mother's womb.

14 I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Marvelous are Your works,
And that my soul knows very well.

15 My frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

I think Galatians 5:14, "love your neighbor as yourself" is very specific the way it is worded. I believe it's related to Matthew 7:9, "Or what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone?" We do take care of ourselves and those we love first and I believe Galatians 5:14 is saying, take care of your neighbor like you take care of you and yours. Everyone puts their own children first, their own family; this is not about how "well" one cares for one's individual self; whether one has a put-everyone-but-me-first complex or not; one is not supposed to do that in the first place, but rather is about "balance" and making sure that as well cared for as you are (food, shelter, clothing, people who love and care for you), just check and make sure others around you are cared for too in a similar manner. Give to local charities and help out elderly neighbors, etc. The Galatians (central Turkey now) to whom Paul wrote were still warlike, volitile Celts and not very sophistocated (some tried to worship Paul and Barnabas and when they protested, they stoned them instead (Book of Acts)). So the meaning of the text probably isn't very "deep", I take it at face value, to treat my Galatian small town "neighbors" most of whom I know, as I do my family.

(((((SeptemberMorn)))))
Your thread is beautiful. Thanks so much for sharing. I read it faithful everyday and am glad so many people are posting here. Keep on with this it will surely help many of us who are struggling in life.

(((((september))))) i agree with your response to my post. The farther we are from God the less evident He will be in our lives. i understand your point of view and absolutely agree with it. i was just saying WE faulter in loving ourselves and each other, but Christ does not.

i apologize if i somehow have taken this thread in a different direction. for that isn't at all my intentions. i love this thread and am continually blessed by it.

Evil, hurtful things can be overcome only by rising to a higher standard of love and kindness.

Luke 6:27 <font color="purple"> </font> But i say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you.
<font color="black"> </font> 28 <font color="purple"> </font> Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
<font color="black"> </font> 29 <font color="purple"> </font> And unto him that smiteth thee one the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.
<font color="black"> </font> 30 <font color="purple"> </font> Give to every man that asketh thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
<font color="black"> </font> 31 <font color="purple"> </font> And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
<font color="black"> </font> 32 <font color="purple"> </font> For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
<font color="black"> </font> 33 <font color="purple"> </font> And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
<font color="black"> </font> 34 <font color="purple"> </font> And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
<font color="black"> </font> 35 <font color="purple"> </font> But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for He is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
<font color="black"> </font> 36 <font color="purple"> </font> Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

<font color="black"> </font> I know that this is just the opposite of what our human flesh and human instinct tell us. But this is what The Father wants us to do. Not to take revenge. For He has said He is the Avenger. It is not to be upto us to punish others. instead we are to show love, kindness, and be in much prayer for them.

the words in the post above should be in red, but i didn't know how to do that without possibly triggering someone.

I appreciate your not using red. You can make a text a color by using the brackets and color:blue or whatever color is available here. [ ] are brackets <font color="blue"> like this without spaces [ color : blue ]

http://www.biblecollectors.org/red_letter_bible.htm

very cool article Perna! thank you for sharing.

Excerpts. <font color="purple">For whoever does the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say to you, Whoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

Give and it shall be given unto you, good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give you into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

And Jesus perceiving the thought of their heart, took a child and set him by him Whoever receives [this] child in my name receives me; and whoever shall receive me receives Him that sent Me, for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.

For what is a man's advantage if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away?

(((((((Sky)))))))

Thank you so much for this! Very wonderful to hear, no matter the number of times you've heard it before. The beauty of this excerpt has nearly brought me to tears.

Thank you for this blessing today. for being open to Him so that He would use you to bless many!

Perna, indeed, the wording is specific. It's great! So I wonder why so many skip over the "you," meaning Self, when they take care of "yours and your neighbor"?

Maybe I haven't made myself clear in expressing the idea that loving Self is as important as loving "our neighbor." By loving Self, we address the problem of self-esteem and also lack of self care. If you look through the board as a whole, in many of the forums, self-hate and loathing are subjects that cause people some heavy duty problems. Not all of these people will read here, but if we can reach one or two (myself included), then I would feel like God's love has been shown, demonstrated, in that some have actually seen at least a glimmer.

I'm still not sure that I'm making myself clear. If you get my drift, though, I would certainly appreciate a little more help in this area.

Outside influences like my physical health and other problems have intruded themselves on what the Holy Spirit would have me do. That's why I haven't responded to so many posts in the last few days. It's needful to get myself back in line. Please bear with me.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{OxbowGirl}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Thank you so much for your words. They are indeed validating and encouraging!

Recluse, in no way have you taken this thread away from where it should be! It's very comforting to know that even though we oftentimes fail ourselves, God certainly NEVER fails us with His love and His mercy!

Another affirmation that God's love never fails us! Amen, Sister Jeannie!

I think the I-love-others-more-than-myself stuff is bogus! :-)

The modern day martyr who sacrifices themselves for others is a fake. They're looking for someone to appreciate them, to control through their look-what-I-did-for-you! stance.

My stepmother use to wake me up as a teenager (and teenagers need their sleep; I wasn't staying up all night, etc. and getting to bed "late" I was just needing 10-12 hours sleep http://www.stanford.edu/~dement/adolescent.html) but my stepmother once woke me on a Saturday morning when I was trying to recoup from having to get up too early weekdays for school, and dragged me out to the garage to show me the dresser she was refinishing for me (like I'm going to be wide a wake the instant I'm out of bed?) and then complain because I wasn't falling all over the place in graditude. Well, the first thing I noticed was, I didn't want/need/ask to have my dresser refinished? Yes it's nice, but? Or the other time when she stayed up all night to finish making me a dress and was hurt when I didn't reciprocate level of giving?

But my absolute favorite is being trained to say "thank you." All children/people should learn to say "thank you" to learn what gratitude is. I would be the first to get in line to back that statement to the hilt. BUT, I was trained to say "thank you" before I was given the gift? She wouldn't give me whatever, until I had said "thank you" as it was being handed to me. Think about that.

My stepmother aside; so I say "thank you" too soon or too often, sue us; it's a wonderful habit to have and I'm grateful I have much to be thankful for! However, I think most of those who do "too much" for others, and not themselves, are unconsciously misguided and looking for praise, control, anxiety reduction, something other than the main event of helping the other person.

My husband doesn't ever offer to help others. He finds it condescending to offer. If other people need help, he feels it's their personal responsibility to ask for it. Only they can know if they need help! Someone else offering help is, in a sense, saying the person being offered help is "helpless" and not able to take care of themselves and needs the offer. If you ask for help, my husband is right there, all over it. I have been trained (again by the lovely stepmother) to offer my help so now, I know my husband's behind me in giving so I offer his help too It's very subtle but also very "true" and something we don't think about and realize. "Can I help?" is about us, not the person we think needs our help. If you think about it, it could be construed or said in such a way that it's begging to allow us to be part of your business/endeavors/life. I think that's why we have to ask for God's forgiveness and go to Him rather than his coming to us.

Lack of self esteem and self care is a slap in God's face. As the idiot saying goes, "God don't make no junk". The airlines have it right with put the oxygen mask on yourself then help the children; heck, Nature has that right! Children are "expendible" can be killed or eaten because you can always make more. But you can't make a grown lion that's lasted several years and has all that experience. In a marriage, one pledges to one's mate. That shouldn't change when the marriage produces children! Children should not come first in the marriage, one's spouse should! If the marriage has trouble, the children will be in jeopardy. Not attending to communication with one's spouse, making time to talk together and continue the work of the marriage and commitment to one another is what puts the home in danger (in my opinion :-)

Before one gets married, has children, one should know one's self. Knowing one's self can only lead to self esteem. Exploring what is in that grab bag I call my mind is necessary before one can take on adult commitments with any hope of success.

But as I said, I don't think the Paul's, Gallatian, "others as yourself" was that deep. I think it was talking about "surface" care; food, shelter, clothing, and friendly companionship. It was, "Mi Casa es su Casa" in scope.

Perna, I respect your opinion and appreciate that this is the way you perceive things. That's okay. However, I've seen my own aunt pass away at too early an age because she was the perfect icon for what a true, old fashioned Minister's Wife should be. She was also a martyr. Like I said, she died at too early an age for me to know all the ramifications and reasons for the way she lived and why she believed and behaved the way she did.

It was her husband, my uncle and the self-appointed family patriarch whose Christianity I've had to fight against and improve upon most of my life.

Much of my own PTSD and lack of self-worth came from being married to a control freak for 11 1/2 yrs. It's been a long recovery road for me to realize that I DO have a mind of my own, that my ideas and opinions aren't rediculous and that I do have just a bit more self-worth than what he "allowed me to believe" about myself. I've also come back to my Faith and I KNOW there is a loving God that never abandons me... all contrary to what this man crammed down my throat for those 11 1/2 years. Then there was the 18 years prior to my marriage to him of having the grandmother calling me a ***** and me never measuring up to what my mother "wanted to make of me." My mother taught me self-deprication. Once, only once did my father respond to me after I announced to him that I didn't love myself, that I was wrong in my thinking. He responded that I "should" love myself like I loved him and my mother. I couldn't have been more than five years old so I didn't understand. Then for the rest of her life, my mother contradicted that statement with her actions. She didn't have any love for Self but she made up for it with a lot of misplaced pride for Self and arrogance.

All of these people were sincere in their beliefs. None of them were "fakes." So... maybe now you understand a little of where I'm coming from and why I believe that addressing God's commandment to "love our neighbor as our Self" is important.

O love that will not let me go
I rest my weary soul in Thee
I give Thee back the life I owe
That in Thine ocean depths its flow
May richer, fuller be

O Light that followest all my way
I yield my flickering torch to Thee
My heart restores its borrowed ray
That in Thy sunshines glow its day
May brighter, fairer be

O Joy you seek me through the pain
I cannot close my heart to Thee
I trace the rainbow through the rain
And feel the promise is not vain
That morn shall tearless be

something to think about when things seem to be at their lowest for ourselves or for others. this is a word of encouragement to keep going. one foot infront of the other, for things will be better.

Romans 8:18
For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is going to be revealed to us.

Growth in Grace:

2 Thessalonians 1:3
We are bound to always thank God for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth.

Brotherly Love:

1 Thessalonians 4:9
But as touching brotherly love ye need not that i write unto you; for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

1 John 2:10
He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

1 John 3:18
My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and truth.

Thank you so much for those verses, Recluse! Very much appreciated. They are so appropriate. (Was there any doubt? Not on MY part! )