In Memorium - Salem Witch Trials

,, Yea Perna >>> that ergotamin [ rye wheat mold ] bottom line when processed with a few washes of diethylamine and di-ethythlformamide <<[ spelling ] .. little precipitation from ether ,,, and LSD-25.

I never come to this forum ,, never knew it was so open .

sky, I do not want to get into religious debate here, but the bible does say stuff that I'll not get into here, since this forum is not the place, feel free to pm me and we will discuss particular scriptures that are directed toward killing witches, Old or New testament, does not matter, I think you'll find , though I am uneducated, I know more than you may think

<<< I best stay out of here .

Not kill enemies ??/ ........................... And that not why a Peep was nailed to a cross ???

I probably should not even clarify this, but I mean it does not matter if its in the old or new testament.
also, Who said anything about enemies???

this is a memorium for those killed as witches.

I thought

its a Memoriam for lost souls now i think Coral.... its ok... go ahead and grieve... for anyone lost soul here...

thanx, I just don't want it to turn into another locked argument about the bible

I think its a good thread, I am learning stuff ... like about the rye posioning and more

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_Sky said:
Hmmm I wonder why it's also human nature to blame God for such acts? It does not say anywhere in the New Testament to kill our enemies.

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Ronald Hutton, author of Pagan Religions of the Ancient British Isles and Triumph of the Moon: A History of Modern Pagan Witchcraft, in his unpublished essay "Counting the Witch Hunt", counted local estimates, and in areas where estimates were unavailable attempted to extrapolate from nearby regions with similar demographics and attitudes towards witch hunting. He reached an estimate of 40,000 total executions, which appears to be emerging as the most widely accepted figure among academics. Cohn, Europe's Inner Demons, p. 253 denounces as "fantastic exaggerations" numbers of several hundred thousands.[39]

Table of recorded and estimated executions according to Hutton's estimates[40]
Country Recorded Estimated
America 36 35 - 37
Austria ?? 1,500 - 3,000
Belgium ?? 250
Bohemia ?? 1,000 - 2,000
Channel Islands 66 66 - 80
Denmark ?? 1,000
England 228 300 - 1,000
Estonia 65 100
Finland 115 115
France 775 5,000 - 6,000
Germany 8,188 17,324 - 26,000
Hungary 449 800
Iceland 22 22
Ireland 4 4 - 10
Italy 95 800
Latvia ?? 100
Luxembourg 358 355 - 358
Netherlands 203 203 - 238
Norway 280 350
Poland ??? 1,000 - 5,000
Portugal 7 7
Russia 10 10
Scotland 599 1,100 - 2,000
Spain 6 40 - 50
Sweden ?? 200 - 250
Switzerland 1,039 4,000 - 5,000
Grand Total: 12,545 35,184 - 63,850

link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch-h..._of_witchhunts

may you rest in peace souls....

Number of executions
Burning of three witches in Baden, Switzerland (1585), by Johann Jakob Wick.
Burning of three witches in Baden, Switzerland (1585), by Johann Jakob Wick.

Estimates of the numbers of women, men and children executed for participating in witchcraft vary wildly depending on the method used to generate the estimate. The total number of witch trials in Europe which are known for certain to have ended in executions is around 12,000

Some sociologists have attributed the occurrence of witchhunts to the prevalent human tendency to blame unexplainable occurrences on someone or something familiar. For example, Europe relied heavily upon agriculture during the period of the witch hunts; if there were large scale crop failures, the consequences would very likely be disastrous. Crop failures often correlated with the occurrence of witchhunts, leading some sociologists to suggest that communities often took out their anger about a lack of food on community members who were unpopular (witches.) This can be paralleled in more recent examples such as the Nazi use of anti-semitism to apportion blame for economic problems. A perception of moral righteousness, by the community, is a necessary element that enables rationalization. This, however, is only one element in a complex tapestry of factors leading to the events in question.

link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch-h..._of_witchhunts

I welcome all PMs about Scripture. But remember that I won't merely go by wikipedia or King James translations..and prefer to refer to the more original languages. And yes, I did refer to "enemies" when referring to this, as it is well presented that witches are enemies to Christians in general.

I think we have memorialized those murdered for the causes whether justified or not I do not know.

I find redundancy in the thread already. And had hoped it would change it's title and encompass all those murdered by others enmass by their enemies.

And, if I may ask without debate, how is remembering the dead part of encouraging and supporting others in their spirituality? Perhaps we could have some of this in the thread also?

yes Sky, i think you're going to a good place with this.. i will add some research.... thank you to all who honored the dead... the men and women of the world wars can be included here, the current wars, the rapes, killings, tortures that all have endured for the security of home......

originally i did intend to memorialize the forgotten... the many many forgotten ones .....

thru time there has been killing for wrong reasons and of course there is the argument that there is a right reason.... that becomes debate...

for those tho who were outcast by large number and small, made helpless and victims and who knocked on the door with no answer and cried for their souls and were spit upon and made to die in humiliating ways before the whole world and no help came... for those, i am sorrowful and it is no small matter in the history of our human life....

and sadly, it continues.....

peace and good will to all who read this, I love you all as my spirtual family

[I've been advised there was nothing wrong with this post and no reason that it couldn't be reposted.]

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NW: for those tho who were outcast by large number and small, made helpless and victims and who knocked on the door with no answer and cried for their souls and were spit upon and made to die in humiliating ways before the whole world and no help came... for those, i am sorrowful and it is no small matter in the history of our human life....

Jung would point out that this is shadow projection. We most frequently find our shadow in other people. That is, what we cannot stand about ourselves, we project onto others and hold them accountable for our own crimes. We then punish them for it.

The Salem witch trials are a testament to this weakness of human nature. It was frequently women and children who stood accused of demon possession and were subjected to the cruellest and most inhumane forms of torture as a result. And yet, it's not too difficult to see who might have been "possessed by the devil" in that particular scenario.

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"We still attribute to the other fellow all the evil and inferior qualities that we do not like to recognize in ourselves, and therefore have to criticize and attack him, when all that has happened is that an inferior "soul" has emigrated from one person to another. The world is still full of betes noires and scapegoats, just as it formerly teemed with witches and werewolves"

-- C. G. Jung
Civilization in Transition, p.130; quoted in On Scapegoating: A Collection of Ideas

... in order to maintain its own equilibrium, its own sanity in other words, as psychological defense mechanism, the ego has to constantly project its ugliness onto an appropriate scapegoat.

This is how they cope with their unacknowledged and repressed psychic contents, which can only be tolerated as hatred for another, for a perceived enemy who has slighted them or their family or tribe or culture or ethnicity or nation or religion or ideology.

This happens everywhere, prejudice, bigotry, intolerance, xenophobia, fear and hatred of the "other" are universal. And just because someone claims to, or is thought by others to be, spiritual, or a guru, doesn't make them free of this either.

Source: Projection of the Shadow


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The practice of shadow projection is likely every bit as rampant today as it was then, as borne out by the ongoing saga of humanity's inhumanity.

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coralproper said:
peace and good will to all who read this, I love you all as my spirtual family

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i want you all to know how much you matter to me

well.....I guess I'll wander around the forums a bit before bed, I'll be leaving early about 4:00am probably, so we can ride into the light, its about 11 hours to West Palm beach, as I said in my mysteriously deleted post, I have to attend a bar mitzvah in south Florida, for a family member, so I probably won't check back in till mid next week, after tonight

I am not jewish , but I support all people who support me

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_Sky said:
Hmmm I wonder why it's also human nature to blame God for such acts? It does not say anywhere in the New Testament to kill our enemies.

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Sky , how would you like for me to respond to this ina a mannerism accptable to your will ?

it seems to be directed to contradict me sorry if I am miscomprehending

but as I said in another mysteriously deleted post, feel free to pm ":me:" and we can civily discuss details of scripture about killing witches.,of any text including Hebrew, I don't limit my research to the King james bible either.......I dont know what else to say here except that its not the place to qoute scripture probably .... but I am cunfused as to the direction of the above qoute since no one mentioned the new testament

kind regards
eddie

you guys? can i interject? this is a thread for grieving and there are emotions and confusions related to loss....

lets be civil please? this is an important topic to us all i believe and there is some healthy way to grieve...

i'm pretty sure forgiveness is included in the process... and i can understand how we cant just jump there sometimes... we're human...

but, the spirit of the thread is love..... i know sky, coral, and many thousands have suffered..... this dialogue can help i think....

the 'sins of the father' come to mind..... if there is to be a peace in the valley for us all... i just wanna express how important it is to be civil... so we can listen and learn... as i am trying to do also...

i do appreciate how those who are and have been disturbed are trying to find agreements.. i strongly believe it exists in a few slim strands of considerate thoughtfulness for each other despite the wrongs of the past....

all of us... all the souls who suffer.... this is important.. can we end the suffering please ? i pray..... before its not too late......

nowhere, you are right but put youself in my shoes, I feel like a walking target

I am trying to stick to the peace and love for those lost to the worlds truths that we are seeking solice for, and did not intentionaly try to trigger anything else in any post prior to the above qoute, I am confused though as to the direction of the qoute and only want to comprehend its intention, so I don't take it the wrong way, since I am also still in human form, and prone to make mistakes

fury, in James's defence he even regreted his actions "some" believe, since it got so out of control after his actions, the extent of his regret is still a mystery to me, but he even knew that all killed as witches, could not have been , some say

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coralproper said:
nowhere, you are right but put youself in my shoes, I feel like a walking target

I am trying to stick to the peace and love for those lost to the worlds truths that we are seeking solice for, and did not intentionally try to trigger anything else in any post prior to the above quote, I am confused though as to the direction of the qoute and only want to comprehend its intention, so I don't take it the wrong way, since I am also still in human form, and prone to make mistakes

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personally i have no issue coral.. i am also trying to put myself in skys shoes on this... and yours.... we can grieve... thats a thing humans have to do... but harming others in that process is senseless beyond words imho....

and please dont be offended coral.. this is not directed to you only, but to myself and any others to whom it may apply.... connections are an efficient way to communicate.. the learning process can be painless, even fun...

so we are here... grieve and learn and love.....

hmmmmmm ........ peace, and good luck, but I will not take what I feel is passive aggressive triggers, without questioning the intentions, this is just my nature

I will just respectfuly dismiss myself ... if need be

God bless (((((all))))

Eddie

hmm... coral... first off, i supprt you... i grieve and have grieved at the same time as you, over the same troubling beliefs that some were wrongly persecuted, enslaved, of downtrodden, made to walk rivers of tears... i share the same remorse for all this and more than has been mentioned...

a good witch, imo, loves the earth anfd all that is in it.... a good witch believes in the power of dreams and visions..... and uses those tolls for self and other healing...

a lot is misunderstood about witches, and also, i believe, there is a lot misunderstood about Christianity.....

there is such a thing as human social evolution.... people can learn from the past, tho, it is obvious some havent...

but a good witch would see the good future and would work towards its good creation... because my friend, in the heart of it, is the image of God.....

Please let's keep the thread to the original topic. If you would like to address someone on their posting style specifically, etc., please PM that member.

I'm loathe to lock this thread so please keep the personal concerns to PM within the guidelines.

Posts from this point that are specifically directed to or about another member in a confrontational manner, or appear to be a personal tone/disagreement will be removed.

I appreciate everyone contributing to this thread and hope that it continues on. Please help me achieve this goal for all.

KD

So that be where some of the posts went ...>>>>>>>>> ok .

There are things I know little of ...

Salem Witch trials are historical and the thing of blame .
So I thought ,,, And that a witch would be bound with rocks and chains ....,,, then thrown into a lake ? And Then ? If float a witch ? And if drown ,,,, NOT ??

Now I reckon I should click some links .

((kimmy))

nowhere, on your stats, they are overwhelming figures, I am stuck on those not accounted for who had no trial, just vigilante justice and no record of their ultimate demise

I feel overwhelmed with terror that these innocent people endured

also since you welcomed the memorium to others lost, I have another terror to face tomorrow, I have to stop repeatedly at rest stops on our trips to Florida for my little girls to use the rest stops, and every time I get into Florida the walls are covered with missing children pictures, I am always overcome with grief at the site of their innocent faces and it is a very hard thing for me to overcome these feelings, of these childrens likely fate

My heart is breaking as I type this, so please "all" keep these children lost to unknown circumstances in or memoriums intention

please pray for them and their familys solace,

and my ablity to respond to any questions my little girls may ask about who all the children are in the pictures