In Memorium - Salem Witch Trials

i meant to come back to your post spiritual_emergency...

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Jung would point out that this is shadow projection. We most frequently find our shadow in other people. That is, what we cannot stand about ourselves, we project onto others and hold them accountable for our own crimes. We then punish them for it.

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This happens everywhere, prejudice, bigotry, intolerance, xenophobia, fear and hatred of the "other" are universal. And just because someone claims to, or is thought by others to be, spiritual, or a guru, doesn't make them free of this either.

Source: Projection of the Shadow

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i have tracked myself committing this error..... becoming that which is hated....

i'm learning tho that as i project myself from within out, i am mirrored back my own darkness....

projecting love from within seems to leave the least amount of residue....

would that be one of the lessons we can learn finally.. at global level? it is as Rapunzel had stated earlier... not the people, but the power enacts war.....

the disconnected souls are a factor.... the machination of daily grinding life creates a stress that disembodies us from feelings...

we all have feelings ... im sure of it....

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NW: i have tracked myself committing this error..... becoming that which is hated....

<center>Battle not with monsters lest ye become a monster.

-- Friedrich Nietzsche</center>

That's a good one for me to sit with from time to time.

As for what we're capable of on a global level... here's one man's thoughts: Shadow Projection is its Own Medicine

I'm not sure if you've come across Paul Levy before. He'll give you plenty to think about, that's for sure.

See also: [*] The Process of Individuation: The Shadow
[*] Buddhist Words of Wisdom

well guys see ya next week, checking out after this cup of coffee

be safe coral, my friend...

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kimmydawn said:
Please let's keep the thread to the original topic. If you would like to address someone on their posting style specifically, etc., please PM that member.

I'm loathe to lock this thread so please keep the personal concerns to PM within the guidelines.

Posts from this point that are specifically directed to or about another member in a confrontational manner, or appear to be a personal tone/disagreement will be removed.

I appreciate everyone contributing to this thread and hope that it continues on. Please help me achieve this goal for all.

KD

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thank you Kimmy Dawn

we learneed a lot about the salem witch trials in my english class and read the cruicible by arthur miller. It is really sad and then we even watched the movie and when john proctor got hanged (i hate the word hanged i always feel it should be hung) it was so distrurbing. After learning about that we went into mccarthism because what happened there was almost like his own little "witch hunt" because of the fear of communism in the US as the fear was of witches. scary what the hysterical fear of someone can lead to.

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Court Knee: scary what the hysterical fear of someone can lead to.

Precisely. This is why it's so valuable to be able to recognize the illusory nature of our projections. The rope and snake story discussed in the Buddhist Wisdom article is but one example of how we can "see" something that isn't there at all. When the recipient of our fearful projections is only a rope, there's little harm done. When it's another human being, the potential for grave harm is very high.

That's right, Court Knee. I believe people's fear of losing power and control can lead to atrocious human behavior. It's hard to swallow when it's done "in the name of God" - as if God would need us to fight his battles for him.

My heart goes out to all those whose lives have been taken in this manner.

Coral, I hope you enjoy the bah mitzvah

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<center><img src=http://knowledgenews.net/moxie/moxiepix/a1258.jpg></center>

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A witch-hunt is a search for witches or evidence of witchcraft, often involving moral panic, mass hysteria and mob lynching, but in historical instances also legally sanctioned and involving official witchcraft trials.

The classical period of witch-hunts in Europe falls into the Early Modern period or about 1450 to 1700, spanning the upheavals of the Reformation and the Thirty Years' War, resulting in tens of thousands of executions.

Many cultures throughout the world, both ancient and modern, have reacted to allegations of witchcraft either with superstitious fear and awe, and killed any alleged practitioners of witchcraft outright; or, shunned it as quackery, extortion or fraud. Witch-hunts still occur in the modern era in many communities where religious values condemn the practice of witchcraft and the occult.

The term "witch-hunt" is often used to refer to similarly panic-induced searches for perceived wrong-doers other than witches. The best known example is probably the McCarthyist search for communists during the Cold War.

Source: Wikipedia: Witch Hunt


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See also: National Geographic: Salem Witch Trials - Interactive

its sad but, 'witch hunt' is a common turn of phrase in business today... as is 'scape-goat' and 'whistle-blower' .... all despised and hated individuals by another group of individuals....

where is our connection?

It is a definite challenge for people to think out of the box and recognize someone who is different from themselves as just another person, also similar in many ways, with a lot of the same human needs, who only wants to go about life the same as we do, but in a way that is meaningful for them. There are some differences that we can accept, and some that we perceive as threatening in some way for some reason.

Sometimes there is a fear that the others will hurt us in some way, because we don't understand what motivates them and how they make choices. In some cases we may have actually been hurt by someone who was different. Maybe even someone like the person who is different. Maybe it can be understood in terms of "transference." We react to people based on how we have reacted to someone else in our past. The less that we understand about someone, the more likely that one detail may stand out and trigger a transference reaction.

People have always had a fear of change. They are usally most comfortable with what they know and understand, and differences often threaten our sense of security.

If we can understand what scares us and why, and that it has more to do with us than with whoever or whatever we are afraid of, it is much easier to stay calm and make rational decisions that work to everyone's benefit. We can see the same principles at work on a grand scale as in our own psyches. Each of us is a microcosm of our cultures and societies.

Are there any witch hunts going on in your life? Are you the hunter or the hunted? Sometimes maybe we all experience both sides of it.

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Rapunzel: Maybe it can be understood in terms of "transference." We react to people based on how we have reacted to someone else in our past. The less that we understand about someone, the more likely that one detail may stand out and trigger a transference reaction.

In the rope and snake example, there was some common ground shared between the rope and the snake. These characteristics in common are the "hooks" that will hold a projection in place. Once a projection is "hooked" we become engaged in a relationship with our projection and not the object of our projection -- we are no longer seeing reality as it really is. Within Buddhist terms, this would be called maya -- delusion.

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How can you tell your brother, 'Brother, let me remove the speck of chaff that is in your eye,' when you yourself don't see the beam that is in your own eye? You hypocrite! First remove the beam from your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck of chaff that is in your brother's eye.

Luke 6:42


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It's worth noting that we can project in a negative or positive fashion but the projection itself always begins with us. What the other provides is the "hooks" we hang our projections upon.

See also: The Psychology of Projection

Music of the Hour:

as a 'out of thin air' example of what you mean.... is it like a particular habit an individual might have. this 'hook' you refer to? like a trigger? so that each time we see the 'trigger' we are flooded with the emotions of the past, the remembered hurts and wrongs going back years and years.... into the thousands of years past?

for example..... as a child (prime learning time) i was told the story of Moses and the Egyptians... then it was reinforced by popular fiction and movies and books and songs and over time, a new 'image' of the story id pressed and reformed in the conscience so that its new image barely resembles the original story?

but what is important, imo, for me to learn, is that even tho the image has been reinforced hundreds of times, that even in serious discussion, fact and fiction have blended into mirage..

and then the mirage image is whats projected? like the fear of the witch? ... i really feel that if time were taken to study the witch some might lose some fear... i remember the distinction 'black' and 'white' witches....

what role does ethics play in spirituality.. any opinions? could we consider an 'athiest' to have 'spirit' in the way they accomplish tasks or lead others?

how many of the despised have we overlooked? the homeless, the mentally ill, the diseased? who were the lepers? werent they people?

what is this mentality 'survival of the fittest' really all about to us?

how is it possible for so many to look away?

in making this thread, what have i 'projected' about myself?

"how many of the despised have we overlooked? the homeless, the mentally ill, the diseased? who were the lepers? werent they people?

what is this mentality 'survival of the fittest' really all about to us?

how is it possible for so many to look away? "

Your right no one should ever look away..........................
As I have said over and over we all matter
I know you think that too.......by your post
ty for your post

ty (((muffy)))))) i need to edit my statement.. the lepers are not a 'were' .. they are an 'are' .. who are they? why do some of us feel like 'social lepers' ? what are these words we use again and again to describe ourselves and our situation? is it the same old story with different names?

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but what is important, imo, for me to learn, is that even tho the image has been reinforced hundreds of times, that even in serious discussion, fact and fiction have blended into mirage..

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This is why studying history is so important. But not the history of the current school books, unfortunately, because they have been rewritten and have "changed" history. I personally don't see any solution at this time.

As I continue to think about this thread/subject, I grow increasingly aware that many people know the answers, and talk a good talk. What good is this? What can we do, what do we feel like we can do, to change it for the future? Do most people have it within them to realize their own predudices? I think not. So many times even right here at PC we find members casting stones at others, the whole time they are "guilty" (for want of a better word) of doing the same thing WHILE throwing the stone. How do we as onlookers help in such a situation without making it worse? Isn't this the same problem of old, whether of witches or not?

Does it matter how big the group is that is being overlooked? Can we possibly accommodate everyone in life? How do we decide who isn't overlooked? How could we do better?

edit= spelling.

"Does it matter how big the group is that is being overlooked? Can we possible accommodate everyone in life? How do we decide who isn't overlooked? How could we do better? "

We don't over look anyone imo...everyone matters
thats how we do better..........I mean this with kindness

Every single person matters on this earth..........no one should be left behind............I agree history is important

Said with kindness and caring ...................cause we all matter

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_Sky said:
nwtr said: </font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
but what is important, imo, for me to learn, is that even tho the image has been reinforced hundreds of times, that even in serious discussion, fact and fiction have blended into mirage..

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This is why studying history is so important. But not the history of the current school books, unfortunately, because they have been rewritten and have "changed" history. I personally don't see any solution at this time.

As I continue to think about this thread/subject, I grow increasingly aware that many people know the answers, and talk a good talk. What good is this? What can we do, what do we feel like we can do, to change it for the future? Do most people have it within them to realize their own predudices? I think not. So many times even right here at PC we find members casting stones at others, the whole time they are "guilty" (for want of a better word) of doing the same thing WHILE throwing the stone. How do we as onlookers help in such a situation without making it worse? Isn't this the same problem of old, whether of witches or not?

Does it matter how big the group is that is being overlooked? Can we possible accommodate everyone in life? How do we decide who isn't overlooked? How could we do better?

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Isn't saying ,,, "talk a good talk " what good is this ?..... Throwing a stone ???

its that endless mirror effect of looking within.... some truth is the foundation of preventing an endless odyssey into the soul imo...

basic truths... family, love, hunger, truth, community, kindness and caring are good reflectors.... imho...

I'm not throwing any stones. I'm sorry you are thinking in that way.

I was talking globally. Thinking generally.

All these atrocities... which have been related here.... could they have been thwarted, and if so, how? Certainly by my talking about them hasn't created my own doing anything. Perhaps it could cause someone who is reading to find a way to do something to prevent, but the mere act of discussing, to my knowledge, isn't solving anything. I posed the thought to find solutions, not making accusations.

i feel its a good discussion to have if we are suffering from a spiritual past that at times was harmful and others have traumatized and with a continuing downward spiral in Earths physiology, i feel a healing of these human sufferings might help... we could put energy towards greater uses than arguing and hating.....

the nymbers of sufferers are great and a powerful front when united... i am finding this thread empowering and i thoughtfully remind myself of many friends not present to speak... what i have to say is what they might have to say themselves if they were here...

God rest their souls...

Doesn't their energy combine with ours, in a collective "unconscious" and energies? Can't we tap into the wisdom of the ages and make improvements, or are we destined to make the same mistakes of the past? Are we chained to finding fault and blame and in making excuses for not moving ahead so that we cannot, can not, improve?

Those who do not study history are bound to repeat it. Are we still too short-sighted to plan a decent future?

Isn't the impending situation with the muslims in the USA a good example? Will we also be adding others to this memorial thread if we don't change?

i believe the wisdoms are available for tapping : )

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Sky: the mere act of discussing, to my knowledge, isn't solving anything.

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<font size=3>"Since wars begin in the minds of men, it is in the minds of men that the defences of peace must be constructed."</font>

From the preamble of UNESCO's Constitution

Why UNESCO?
War-torn London, 1942. Representatives of the Allied Powers lay the foundations for what was to become UNESCO. The premise: tyranny in all its forms breeds on ignorance and prejudice. All individuals, no matter where they live, must therefore have the opportunity to learn and to cultivate humanistic values, the first as a motor for material progress, the second to lay the foundations for peace and respect for human rights.

UNESCO-the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization-was born on November 16,1945. For this specialized UN agency, it was not enough to build classrooms in devastated countries or to publish the latest scientific developments. Education, science and culture were the means to a far more ambitious goal: "peace founded upon the intellectual and moral solidarity of mankind." UNESCO works to break down the diverse barriers to the spread of knowledge, while fostering dialogue between cultures.

Source: UNESCO


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See also: Four Basic Cult Behaviors That Influence Our Thinking

Sky - the situation with the Muslims in the USA is a good example.

After 9/11 my Muslim neighbor was falsely accused of being a terrorist because he ran a business that sent food/clothing to relatives/friends living in Palestine. I knew him years ago when I worked for a pediatrician. He'd bring in his nieces and nephews to see the doc when their moms couldn't do so. He was a very nice and gentle man.

Officials stormed into his office, raided his business and shipped him off to Israel. He was tortured severely for several years. When he was near death and still hadn't given any information, Israel sent him back to the U.S. for more interrogation. While he was gone, non-Muslim people from the community here harassed his community by circling their mosque, calling them names, and waving huge American flags.

After 5 years of continual torture, he FINALLY got his day in court - Innocent. His community is outraged over his treatment. I would definitely say the treatment he received was similar to a witch-hunt.

Here's an article about his day in court...

http://www.cairchicago.org/inthenews...ile=ct02022007