[nowheretorun]

i am not Jewish, but i was doing some research today and came across this passage... it might have been related to something i was thinking at the time.. haha...

i wondered if anyone else had time to read and share what it causes them to feel and think or means to them....

i appreciate everyones community approach in these forums and the support we share in our varied beliefs.... this is not to mock or point a finger to anyone person or faith... i enjoy and derive pleasure from seeking Gods' presence... i hope some may join and share in a bright and uplifting connection... thank you : )


Jeremiah 1 >>
Jewish Publication Society Tanakh (1917)
1 The words of Jeremiah the son of Hilkiah, of the priests that were in Anathoth in the land of Benjamin, 2 to whom the word of the LORD came in the days of Josiah the son of Amon, king of Judah, in the thirteenth year of his reign. 3 It came also in the days of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah, king of Judah, unto the end of the eleventh year of Zedekiah the son of Josiah, king of Judah, unto the carrying away of Jerusalem captive in the fifth month.

4 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying:

5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee; I have appointed thee a prophet unto the nations.

6 Then said I: 'Ah, Lord GOD! behold, I cannot speak; for I am a child.'

7 But the LORD said unto me: say not: I am a child; for to whomsoever I shall send thee thou shalt go, and whatsoever I shall command thee thou shalt speak.

8 Be not afraid of them; for I am with thee to deliver thee, saith the LORD.

9 Then the LORD put forth His hand, and touched my mouth; and the LORD said unto me: Behold, I have put My words in thy mouth;

10 See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out and to pull down, and to destroy and to overthrow; to build, and to plant.

11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying: 'Jeremiah, what seest thou?' And I said: 'I see a rod of an almond-tree.' 12 Then said the LORD unto me: 'Thou hast well seen; for I watch over My word to perform it.'

13 And the word of the LORD came unto me the second time, saying: 'What seest thou?' And I said: 'I see a seething pot; and the face thereof is from the north.' 14 Then the LORD said unto me: 'Out of the north the evil shall break forth upon all the inhabitants of the land. 15 For, lo, I will call all the families of the kingdoms of the north, saith the LORD; and they shall come, and they shall set every one his throne at the entrance of the gates of Jerusalem, and against all the walls thereof round about, and against all the cities of Judah. 16 And I will utter My judgments against them touching all their wickedness; in that they have forsaken me, and have offered unto other gods, and worshipped the work of their own hands. 17 Thou therefore gird up thy loins, and arise, and speak unto them all that I command thee; be not dismayed at them, lest I dismay thee before them. 18 For, behold, I have made thee this day a fortified city, and an iron pillar, and brazen walls, against the whole land, against the kings of Judah, against the princes thereof, against the priests thereof, and against the people of the land. 19 And they shall fight against thee; but they shall not prevail against thee; For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to deliver thee.'

http://jpsbible.com/jeremiah/1.htm

[altonwoodsdrphil]

Thats an interesting verse...Jeremiah tried to warn Judah about the sins that were rampant in his nation. He pleaded with his countrymen to turn back to God for fourty yerars, but the people refused to listen. Thus, because of the hardness of their hearts, God allowed Jerusalem to be ransaked and the people of Judah departed to Babylon. Jeremiah had done all that he could do, but no one listened. We must speak the truth to our friends and family... even if no one listens. (or seems to be)...

[nowheretorun]

thank you Doc Phil.. as i said, im not Jewish and there is many things i dont know... wasnt even sure about posting this, it was really what i was after, but your response shows me thoughtful and informed intent.. i appreciate that very much...

is it just me, or are there co-relations in this story and the pressures present on Earth at this time in history? anyone can answer.. just looking for others feelings because i feel this might be on others minds as well as my own... is that true?

thank you All..

[ibme]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
nowheretorun said:
i am not Jewish, but i was doing some research today and came across this passage... it might have been related to something i was thinking at the time.. haha...

i wondered if anyone else had time to read and share what it causes them to feel and think or means to them....

i appreciate everyones community approach in these forums and the support we share in our varied beliefs.... this is not to mock or point a finger to anyone person or faith... i enjoy and derive pleasure from seeking Gods' presence... i hope some may join and share in a bright and uplifting connection... thank you : )

http://jpsbible.com/jeremiah/1.htm

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Thank you for sharing this chapter. One thing that means a lot to me from this chapter is how Jeremiah is thought of and in detail, even before he was born.

Jeremiah 1 -
In this chapter we have, I. The general inscription or title of this book, with the time of the continuance of Jeremiah's public ministry (Jer_1:1-3). II. The call of Jeremiah to the prophetic office, his modest objection against it answered, and an ample commission given him for the execution of it (Jer_1:4-10). III. The visions of an almond-rod and a seething-pot, signifying the approaching ruin of Judah and Jerusalem by the Chaldeans (Jer_1:11-16). IV. Encouragement given to the prophet to go on undauntedly in his work, in an assurance of God's presence with him (Jer_1:17-19). Thus is he set to work by one that will be sure to bear him out.
–Matthew Henry’s Commentary on the Whole Bible.

I also had a verse come to mind and used the site you referred to http://jpsbible.com/joshua/1.htm

http://www.e-sword.net/index.html –has many things that may be downloaded free.

Wishing you a Good Day

[altonwoodsdrphil]

What seems interesting to me is that nothing has changed. People are still the same! We're headed for something too...we all have to choose a perspective to approach it from, choose wisely.

[nowheretorun]

thanks to both for answering .. i'm encouraged with the dialogue...

may i draw a hypothetical? persons are born.. they are influenced by environment, education... society.... would Jeremiah have filled those shoes himself? only within a different time, different technological sub-frame....

heres the tough part...

as humans have populated the planet, more and more people are influenced by historical information... those people in turn still gather in communities as they almost always have... they would share stories and inter-relate, and thusly influence each other...

more and more people.... stories pass... people are influenced..... the 'pot' changes form and multiplies... people multiply...

would another "Jeremiah' come to be? if no other obstacles prevented it... what might his current trade be? considering an 'advanced' technological sub-frame still exists...

could he be the average guy sitting next to you on the bus? what if her were told his 'visions' were 'nonsense' and 'maniacle'? what might his non-violent response be?

just some questions that come to mind... anyone?

[sanityseeker]

The North symbolizes the White Race. Jeremiah represents the indigenous people of the earth.... kept in unity with the land of their ancestral birth... safe in the covenant.... in right relationship with Creator.

Indigenous people all over the world are told even today that their visions are nonsense.... their rituals evil.... what might be their non-violent response to the oppression of the White Race? Good question NW.

[nowheretorun]

yes.. i see your point Seeker.... in my vision i see several levels of ethnic and group sufferers... an overseeing oppressive group looms over all...

its like an umbrella image to me... with the top abusers at the pinnacle point... then a top down tiering like pattern... with sub-groups abusing sub-groups... all under the one or two 'main' abusive groups at the top...

a mix of people, all colors and cultures, blend in the 'sub' groups so that people are still capable of identifying with each other in some common terms... at the very least that they all are suffering on some personal level from the 'above' group... and the suffering produces the inevitable 'pot' that begins to boil..

i would ask what 'personality' is dominant in the ever dominating and upward climbing 'sub' groups of abusers in this model...

it would have to be one with the capability of dissociating pain from the self in some manner...

some 'opiate' of the masses would be necessary to fulfill the main goal of whatever it is the dominating group would like to acquire... sex, money, power, control.....

at the 'underlings' expense of body and life...

oooh... made myself feel icky just typing it...

[sanityseeker]

While the masses may have a mixed ethnicity, given a choice most of us with will align with the power majority to improve our position in the world. We will deny our non-White heritage if given the chance just to avoid the abuse. It is an icky reality.

Jerry represents the challenge we each face.... being an authentic witness and testimony. Unafraid to speak the truth even at risk of death. Trusting G-d to be at our side no matter what and no matter who might stand before us.

[nowheretorun]

i appreciate that deduction very much... it 'slims' the fat from the verse... i see how we arrived hre....

i see the position of 'two paths' the verse created.. fight or flight...

where does transcendence fit into this verse? what if there were a third opton? or several?

what if one of the choices was love.... creating an atmosphere of love.... in the days of Jeremiah, the world was large, uncharted... invaders came from places in the distance... in camps without absent of survellience capability..

imho the Earth has become more known since then....

emphasis on colors makes one color blind?

[sanityseeker]

We needn't nor should we be colour blind.... we need to appreciate all colours of the rainbow and all stars of the universe as equal. We need to embrace difference rather than oppress to claim dominance. We need to merge interests and learn from one another.

There is so much to be learned about diversity. We need not homoginize and blend.... the greyness in the world is part of what has people so depressed. Our distinctions are fading.

Transcendance.... is always an option for the individual who is prepared to do the work..... walking in spirit while bound by flesh. In spirit we can always transcend and see the world through sacred eyes. Transfering that transcendant knowledge is the harder work because we once again required the will of the people to give up some power. Power is more attractive to some than transcendant peace and universal love.

[(JD)]

This is a key verse in this reading:

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16 And I will utter My judgments against them touching all their wickedness; in that they have forsaken me, and have offered unto other gods, and worshipped the work of their own hands.

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Now if you wish to lament the comparisons of that society to todays, that might be beneficial, don't you think?

I think Phil had it right.

The people had been warned by God, but refused to listen. Jeremiah had the task of being used by God to show His wrath with the wayward people.

[nowheretorun]

i referred back to the verse... i find a transcendent element in the growing and planting segment....

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10 See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out and to pull down, and to destroy and to overthrow; to build, and to plant.

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in terms of time and the way it is translated to our own current methods....

there are three 'phases' of the prophecy in the 10th part..

first is 'root out, pull down' ... has this happened by now?

second is 'destroy and overthrow' .. has that happened?

and third we have 'build and plant'? when will that time come?

i see the 10th part as the transcendent element of the verse...

[nowheretorun]

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_Sky said:
This is a key verse in this reading:

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
16 And I will utter My judgments against them touching all their wickedness; in that they have forsaken me, and have offered unto other gods, and worshipped the work of their own hands.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Now if you wish to lament the comparisons of that society to todays, that might be beneficial, don't you think?

I think Phil had it right.

The people had been warned by God, but refused to listen. Jeremiah had the task of being used by God to show His wrath with the wayward people.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

thank you _Sky for giving another 'two paths' of choice: Wrath or Growth?

[(JD)]

Perhaps you are running amok with the idea of "black and white thinking" or of "absolutes?" There ARE absolutes when it comes to the Most High God. (The idea of no absolutes only pertains to quantum physics.)

So now what is being debated?

[nowheretorun]

only one f us is scratching our head : )

[SeptemberMorn]

You're so desperately looking hither and yon while the truth is staring you in the face.

[spiritual_emergency]

<blockquote>
A modest reminder:

What is not okay is to post about your disagreement with someone else's beliefs.

[nowheretorun]

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SeptemberMorn said:
You're so desperately looking hither and yon while the truth is staring you in the face.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

this statement speaks for itself imho .. no comment..

[nowheretorun]

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spiritual_emergency said:
<blockquote>
A modest reminder:

What is not okay is to post about your disagreement with someone else's beliefs.




</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

i appreciate the reminder s_e : )

[spiritual_emergency]

<blockquote>
</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>

We needn't nor should we be colour blind.... we need to appreciate all colours of the rainbow and all stars of the universe as equal. We need to embrace difference rather than oppress to claim dominance. We need to merge interests and learn from one another.

There is so much to be learned about diversity. We need not homoginize and blend.... the greyness in the world is part of what has people so depressed. Our distinctions are fading.

Transcendance.... is always an option for the individual who is prepared to do the work..... walking in spirit while bound by flesh. In spirit we can always transcend and see the world through sacred eyes. Transfering that transcendant knowledge is the harder work because we once again required the will of the people to give up some power. Power is more attractive to some than transcendant peace and universal love.


</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I really, really like this post.

[nowheretorun]

yes s_e... it is a thoughtful and inspiring post imo... about healing... we could all use a little bit more of that right now imo...

on the 10th part again:

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10 See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out and to pull down, and to destroy and to overthrow; to build, and to plant.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
to root out and to pull down

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

farming terms..

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and to destroy and to overthrow

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

weeds?????

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to build, and to plant.

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growing...

just the way my mind works... did Jeremiah misunderstand God? have others misinterpreted this verse? it is open to personal interpretation, is it not?

why so much gravity given words that harm? what if Jeremiah had offered kindness and shelter to the North people? would it have made a difference? would the North have responded with hostitlity if offered an olive btranch?

isnt the 'surrounding' of Jerusalem similar to the congestion of modern times.. being surrounded on every flank by 'others'?

how different would a 'different' interpretation in those times have affected history?

is this helpful to think about?

[nowheretorun]

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SeptemberMorn said:
You're so desperately looking hither and yon while the truth is staring you in the face.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

still examining this statement September...

[nowheretorun]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
nowheretorun said:
</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
_Sky said:
This is a key verse in this reading:

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
16 And I will utter My judgments against them touching all their wickedness; in that they have forsaken me, and have offered unto other gods, and worshipped the work of their own hands.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Now if you wish to lament the comparisons of that society to todays, that might be beneficial, don't you think?

I think Phil had it right.

The people had been warned by God, but refused to listen. Jeremiah had the task of being used by God to show His wrath with the wayward people.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

thank you _Sky for giving another 'two paths' of choice: Wrath or Growth?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

why is it some have chosen the more violent path?

[spiritual_emergency]

<blockquote>
NW: on the 10th part again:

I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out and to pull down, and to destroy and to overthrow; to build, and to plant.

Usually, I don't recommend that others take things personally but in this particular instance I think that particular passage should be interpreted in exactly that light. I think that what must be rooted out, pulled down, destroyed and overthrown is something within us -- not in others, not in those we would demonize and call our enemies, but rather, the part of us that wants to demonize and destroy others. I wrote a bit about that elsewhere...

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If you want to kill or hurt other living, breathing human beings, I'm sorry -- that's just too crazy for me and I won't publish your story. Most of the "schizophrenics" I know have so much empathy it hurts them to even be in the general vicinity of someone else who is in pain. The idea of hurting someone else is about as appealing as driving a stake through our own thigh because we know, we're going to feel their pain. Most people who commit violent crimes are not schizophrenic and although I think it's crazy to want to hurt other people, "crazy" is not synonymous with "schizophrenic". It's high time to recognize that there is a monumental difference between someone who believes they're Christ and wants to love everyone, versus someone who believes everyone else is a demon and they're supposed to kill them. If that's what you believe, shift your focus from an external perspective to an internal one -- if there are any "demons" to be slain it's probably the one within you, the one that allows you to believe it's okay to hurt other living, breathing human beings.

Source: How This Blog Got Started


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Anyway, that's how I interpret those words.