[timeforsleep]

Do you ever feel like you want to believe in God and afterlife but it just seems impossible? Like some people are wired to have faith and some are not?

[Junerain]

Yes I do feel that way...like it's a stretch...yet people approach me and ask me to go to their church and I see the love in their eyes, the passion in their voice as they sing about God, the welcoming of anyone and everyone to church, the tears as we pray, the prayers of those on their last hope, the praise report of something good and beautiful I can hear what my church family would think if they heard me admit I wonder if there really is a God, yet I choose to be a part of out church family anyway, there is too much good to be had...can you write more..what is it about God that makes you wonder about him?

[seeker1950]

Timeforsleep, and Junerain...
I also have these feelings. I think there is a God of some sort, but not sure it is the one who is worshipped in organized religion. Though I was raised in a traditional Christian church, I have trouble believing in the graphic representations of Heaven and Hell. I believe the reason people turn out badly is largely due to conditioning, poor treatment, and perhaps genetics. Would a loving God punish such people? I don't think so. I think we pass on to a higher existence because I do believe we are more than our physical bodies.
Patty

[SeptemberMorn]

I posted this in another thread on faith:

Originally Posted by SeptemberMorn

I tend to agree that Faith tends to find you, but you need something to base it on. Take what/Who you believe in now and learn more about it/Him.

Spirituality is defined by our connection to God. Search Him out and learn more about Him. Your faith will grow.

[Drilla]

Yes most more than anyone of us would like to believe have found themselves almost ship-wrecked at one time. See as we live down here we have our senses in which we live each day with, the element of faith really has nothing to do with emotions or even how we think. Our carnal nature will always be the greatest enemy to our spiritual selves. Plus there is an entity spiritually that is at work to stop us from our believing in God and is very deceptive in doing so, always giving reasons that cause us to mis-understand how it is that God does what He does and what He allows, if you believe that God is the creator of everything that is, than all of our answers can only really be found by seeking Him. When we do feel as though we have loss all, we must wait, however long, and know that God has already known of whatever it may be that we are going through........He will fix it in His time not ours, but He will fix it

Drilla

PS: He is faithful even when we are not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Drilla]

We are the ones that usually leave God, it is never God that will abandon any of us. Believing in God is not based on any emotions or will. It is always based on faith. We also have to remember that we are made up of flesh as well spirit. And that the flesh is always the enemy of our spirits, always. Thats why we must crucify our flesh daily, it will be a life long thing that we must do all the days of our lives. And as we do we will draw closer to God in ways that we will never know until me try it. I for one go through some of the things that have been described in this thread, and still at times go through it, but there is always something within each day that compels me to go forth even if its just for another day. Climbing a mountain isn't easy but it is do-able even if we only take one step. All things are subject to change, and they usually do. Patience is a must for any of us walking out life in any form, with God as our help we need to embrace not only patience but to hold unto that small seed of faith no matter how small it may appear to us to be, its still there.

Drilla

PS: For without faith it is impossible to please God.....let me also add this: you feel you dont have faith, get rid of those feelings because faith needs no feelings in order to possess it!!!!!!!

[NOMOR]

Originally Posted by Drilla

We are the ones that usually leave God, it is never God that will abandon any of us. Believing in God is not based on any emotions or will. It is always based on faith. We also have to remember that we are made up of flesh as well spirit. And that the flesh is always the enemy of our spirits, always. Thats why we must crucify our flesh daily, it will be a life long thing that we must do all the days of our lives. And as we do we will draw closer to God in ways that we will never know until me try it. I for one go through some of the things that have been described in this thread, and still at times go through it, but there is always something within each day that compels me to go forth even if its just for another day. Climbing a mountain isn't easy but it is do-able even if we only take one step. All things are subject to change, and they usually do. Patience is a must for any of us walking out life in any form, with God as our help we need to embrace not only patience but to hold unto that small seed of faith no matter how small it may appear to us to be, its still there.

Drilla

PS: For without faith it is impossible to please God.....let me also add this: you feel you dont have faith, get rid of those feelings because faith needs no feelings in order to possess it!!!!!!!

I am not one to debate religion, but have tried for over 30 years to understand it. It is my impression that it begins with FAITH. Can you explain faith to me and maybe a suggestion as to how one obtains it?

[Junerain]

Perhaps if you have pondered for 30 years about spirituality, are you pondering more than listening to your heart?

Do you ever make a wish that a friend would call...then lo & behold they do, right at that moment? Or feel like your pet cat knows when you feel sad and your cat cuddles right up to your lap at that point? Or hear a song and it is a sort of deja vu...you were just humming that song in your head!

To me, these things are the definition of faith, it is something you feel, with your heart......there are too many beautiful coincidences out there...for my myself to not feel there is some sort of God...I have _faith_ that another good coincidence is coming my way soon...I hear my favorite song playing from my brother's room

[free2beme]

Originally Posted by NOMOR

I am not one to debate religion, but have tried for over 30 years to understand it. It is my impression that it begins with FAITH. Can you explain faith to me and maybe a suggestion as to how one obtains it?

i can only state my perspective...

faith comes by hearing.
and in my case, hearing the word of God.

whatever i choose to rely on, put my trust in ....
this is where i put my time and study.

through my efforts to hear and understand more,
my faith has been built

hope this helps some

[NOMOR]

I thank all who read my post, I just get the feeling Faith is something I am not allowed to have.

Best wishes to all!

[Drilla]

Originally Posted by NOMOR

I am not one to debate religion, but have tried for over 30 years to understand it. It is my impression that it begins with FAITH. Can you explain faith to me and maybe a suggestion as to how one obtains it?

It is not obtainable, each of us have a measure of it from before conception. Intellect will sabatage your trying to get a corner of what faith is, do you display any emotions or thoughts in order to breath? Or when you drive, or sit on that dinning room chair? No, excepting is the vehicle of using the faith you already have inside. Over analizing this will resolve in indifference, why? The human mind can't wrap any understanding of this because it operate's in the spiritual realm, your spirit is the only thing that will believe in faith and administer in faith for you. Hope this gets inside of your spirit as you read believe it, think of what I just said above............you already have faith my friend, perhaps you didn't realize all the time that you had been using it all along at some time in your life!!!!!

Drilla

[Rapunzel]

Questioning is part of how we develop faith. It is normal to need to question and struggle with it. I wish that I could say more. I don't post in this forum because I can't distinguish between "religion" and how I make sense of life, existance, and everything.

[SeptemberMorn]

Faith means to have a firm belief in something for which there is no proof.

Religion is the practice or the service and worship of God or the supernatural; a commitment or devotion to religiious faith.

Spirituality is one's connection with God.

Faith comes through being in a continuous state of learning about God. The more you learn, the more Truth is exposed, then Faith grows through the supernatural proof of what one knows about God. This learning and growing, practicing and holding fast to the tennets of any faith is what is called religion.

[multipixie9]

i can understand some people having much more trouble grasping the experience of having a working relationship with God. we are all different and faith and God are not easy concepts at times. i do NOT think that faith has anything to do with personal merit. personally i think that faith is a "dance" between God and people. the only experience i can go by is my own. it is surprising to me that i have faith because my background was not one that made faith easily available to me. our homelife was the exact opposite of all that i think of now as "holy".

my grandfather and some other relatives were satanists who abused me in the "practice of their faith". they came close to killing me, breaking my heart and damaging my mind along the way. my first pastor in a church my brother's and i went to without my parents, molested me and frightened me. the rest of my childhood years were negative and had much abuse and no nurture except for what i read in books and pretended to have. at 18 i graduated high school and by october was planning my suicide. tried the college counseling office and told them i was suicidal and needed help. they did diagnostic tests and told me i needed to be more involved with people. they recommended i become a tutor. the end of their help. i called a crisis line not long after i practiced for my suicide by mixing my mom's medicine with my dad's booze. dexedrine plus vodka before classes one day and all that happened was i felt rather relaxed and energetic at the same time. the person on the crisis line put me in touch with a teen group run by a faith-based organization of the christian persuasion. in a few weeks, after i observed these kids for a week or two, i went to a meeting and had an experience with God that "ignited, initiated" my faith.

as i experienced it, God reached out to me and it was like He gently stopped me right where i was and interacted with me. it was not a subtle, cool experience. i was in this group time with about 15 other teens and adults and i raised my hand and said. "i don't know what it is you people have, but i want it" - direct and uncool quote.

those "people" helped me talk to God, my first prayer. it "felt" awkward and strange. they had me acknowledge to God that i need him, that i knew i had done wrong at times in my life and that i was asking Him to rescue me. i knew basics about christian ideas or theology but it had always been meaningless to me. in 1971 there was a upswing in spiritual hunger and encounters with the Christian God - some people called it "The Jesus Movement" and called us "Jesus Freaks" - that was no big deal, i'd definitely been called much worse. the next day i remember looking in the mirror and saying with amazement, "i am a Christian".

i began to interact with God on a daily basis and it was a dialogue, not just a monologue. i began to read the Bible and it suddenly had meaning and was compulsively readable and it never was before then - just the opposite - it was dry and dull before. i heard God in my thoughts, not audibly.

my choices, character and personality began to change - they changed so much that my mom (the arch skeptic) became a Christian believer a month after me. our homelife became so much better, it was mind-blowing (my mom was one of my top two abusers and did me a lot of harm).

{these changes were not due to studying and practicing rules or religious exercises - they just seemed to happen as i interacted with God and other people around me - both those who believed in God and those who didn't, it was a dynamic period in my life that drew me out of a grave and back into life} i understand the structure and practice of the Christian faith, but i am lousy at religion!!!!!!!

this post is very long but it is the genuine love story in my life. i've had a tough time in life, over 12 abusers and all kinds of abuse, dx of ptsd, depression, anxiety, mpd/did and many stress-related illnesses and chronic pain. in spite of or maybe because of all this my relationship with God has continued for 37 years and no matter what i've gone through including addiction, self-injury, 3 miscarriages and a difficult time being a wife and mom due to past abuse in my dysfunctional being as i reacted to all the awful things i went through, yet, i am still passionately thrilled to be in a relationship with God. i have experienced all kinds of emotional responses to God as well as intellectual experiences - anger, sadness, pain, agony, jealousy, boredom, ecstasy, curiosity, frustration, resentment, insanity,grief, fear misunderstanding, anxiety......whatever.

this complex dance between God and me is expressed well in a short poem i love called:

"The Weaver"
My life is but a weaving between my Lord and me,
I cannot choose the colors, He weaveth steadily,
Oft times He weaveth sorrow and I in foolish pride,
Forget He sees the upper and I the under side.
Not til the loom is silent and the shuttles cease to fly,
Will God unroll the canvas and explain the reasons why
The dark threads are as needful in the Weaver's skillful hand, As the threads of gold and silver, in the pattern He has planned. (author's name unknown to me)

i believe that there is no one excluded from the possibility of faith and relationship with God. i understand the feeling of not being able to encounter it and grasp it and the wonder if somehow i am the only different one who can't have what others have and do what others do. but i do not think this is true. it is available. just the fact of a person's asking means that something of faith is already going on in someone's life.

leslie/susana mariah

[Junerain]

(((((leslie))))

Tears were streaming down my face as I read your post....and they were not tears of pity...not anything close...tears that our stories were so similiar The facts and instances yes they are different...yet my story mirrors yours, I feel...

You did not give up, Leslie....you persevered..against the odds...and yes God....it is only natural to see those with relation to Him and call out..."I see something you have & _I_ want it......."Well you got it, you got a whole dance with God A Dance with God that is the most beautiful dance one can engage in

PM me if you want.....

[(JD)]

How wonderful it is to search for God, for you shall find Him!

Yes, I know from experience how to find "faith" in God. It does come from Him. But if you are seeking, as those in this thread have displayed, you can find Him. Yes, as one said, faith comes from hearing the Word of God. What God says about His love for you will win you over, and give you the faith you seek. Where do you find God? Ask Him to show you Himself, reveal His wonderful ways to you in your life...and then look for them.

Maybe, by beginning to think there are no "coincidences" and no such thing as "luck" but everything good that occurs to you is from God, you will begin to realize just how much He loves you and cares for you and is already in your life.

If you wish to hear more from God, read the book of John in the New Testament. Even if you aren't so sure that the words are Holy, begin reading about the love of God and see if He doesn't begin to "talk" to you through His Word. Faith does come by hearing (and reading) what God says.

It's all about love.

You may PM me with any questions you have. If I don't know the answers, I'll look for them with you.

[SeptemberMorn]

Originally Posted by NOMOR

I thank all who read my post, I just get the feeling Faith is something I am not allowed to have.

Best wishes to all!

NoMore, you are the only one stopping you from having faith in God, anyway. You have faith in many other things that are non-spiritual. You know that when you turn the faucet, you'll get water; that when you turn the key, the door will unlock or the car will start, etc. Why is this? It's because you've tried it and it worked.

So is God's Word. You read, you try, you learn and faith grows. Only in a country that doesn't allow any books of faith are you not "allowed" to have spiritual faith.

[seeker1950]

There was a true dichotomy in how I was raised. My mother was physically and emotionally abusive to me. My dad was largely non-present, burying himself in religion, forcing us to go to Church each Sunday, though his interactions with me and my sister were not loving or fatherly. He never intervened in the abuse, just enabled her, and told us "not to upset her."
My dad suffered from depression. Mom too, though they dealt with it in different ways. Looking back, I adopted religion as a way of gaining his approval and love.
Now I'm pretty much non-religious. I see a lot of behavioral issues related to this upbringing. Mostly desperation.
"You turn the tap on and water flows; you start the ignition in your car, and it starts." These are mechanical inventions, not works of faith.
I have largely come to feel that prayer is talking to oneself. Sorry, I know this sounds cynical and harsh. Faith is belief in something outside yourself. Not sure now that it's based on reality.
Patty

[SeptemberMorn]

Patty, you are right in thinking that faith is outside oneself, at least from my perspective. It's also based on what we know of God and our connection to Him.

It seems your parent's "religion" was based on their particular needs and how they understood Him.

The religion that I learned through my family of origin and well as extended family was also flawed. It's my firm belief that at least some of the basics I was taught were right because through life and all the troubles and tribulations I've come through, God was leading me. He wouldn't let me get too far away from Him. Now that I'm into reading His word more, He becomes more and more real to me.

Perhaps it's the abuse we received as children "in His name" that determines if we choose to hang on to the faith of an innocent child or if that faith is destroyed by the adults in our life.

It's never God that moves away from us or abandons us in any way. It's US. Faith, like religion, is uniquely personal. One of the beauties of God is that He works in each of our lives on an individual need/relationship. He speaks to us through His word according to OUR needs, not the needs or desires of anyone else. That there are similarities is no surprise. He made us all in His image and in some ways, we all have the same needs.

Something that I discovered and was affirmed by people of faith is that we tend to see God like we see our earthy father. I saw God as an aloof person, not really interested in my day to day struggles. He was a God with stringent rules that were almost impossible to follow. If you broke a rule, you'd better be ready to receive harsh punishment here on earth. In fact, He'd punish you just for the heck of it. He'd send down His wrath upon you at will.

Turns out that He's not a Father of wrath but a Father of unconditional, forgiving love. That doesn't mean that if we believe in Him we'll never have problems. It means that if we believe in Him, He's faithful to bring us through those problems, no matter how bad or serious and then gives us more than we had before. When we go through tough times, it's not a punishment but a lesson we need to learn to build character, some weak spot that needs strengthening, a place where we need to build our endurance... much like an athlete works on his weaknesses and builds endurance, learns the ins and outs of his game. It is through these exercises and lessons in life that He helps us build our faith. He's the perfect Coach. He knows our strengths and our weaknesses and He knows what we're cut out to "be when we grow up."

Find out for yourself who God is and what He's really like.

[sabby]

Thank you all for your posts and thoughts. I see this thread as moving somewhat away from the OP's original post and would like to kindly ask that it be re-directed back to the issue at hand - having a lack of faith.

Do you ever feel like you want to believe in God and afterlife but it just seems impossible? Like some people are wired to have faith and some are not?

Thanks!

sabby

[nowheretorun]

i dont believe that the wiring is a part of it so much as the connections... we can search for things of faith and signs and symbols of goodness appear around us in many forms.. even a simple 'plus' sign means something in a spiritual sense... it implies positivity, a positive electric impulse... the plus sign implies 'addition' .. we can connect 'addition' and positivity in a thought wave that forms for us a good moment of reflection.. think of the many times one thing added to another... if we link our memories of the past we might instead come up with a negative thought or image, but we can equally form a positive memory link by adding together the many better times we hopefully have had fortune to know in our lives.. in this way, a simple plus sign can become a thing of faith and positivity for some who have the ability to form and link...

faith can happen in many ways.. we can have faith that our math is sound (i hope ) best to you always