[costello]

It seems like my son and I have so much trouble just talking to each other. I mean he doesn't understand me, and I don't understand him. It's so frustrating. I can't even express how frustrating it is sometimes. It's like we're from two different planets. And even when we're well-intended, we seem to miss each other's meaning.

We were talking yesterday, and suddenly he said, "What is it they say? A mystery wrapped in an enigma wrapped in a riddle." I said, "Yes, you are." And he said, "No, I meant you!" It would be funny if it weren't so damned aggravating.

I don't know if it's a "schizophrenia" thing or a right-brain (him) versus left-brain (me) thing or what. I don't get how he can't get what I'm saying. And sometimes he seems to understand me perfectly. Other times he doesn't. I think he's always been this way, because I've noticed when I'm talking to him, I'll tend to say the same thing several times, using slightly different ways to explain myself - hoping it will sink in. I think he experiences that as too much words coming at him, because sometimes he'll get impatient and tell me he understands - I don't have to say it over and over. Other times, though, he doesn't seem to be taking in what I'm trying to say - which is why I've resorted to this repeating myself thing. Sometimes he tends not to interact in a way that cues me as to whether he's understanding me - or even listening to me sometimes.

He somes used words in idiosyncratic ways. Yesterday, for example, he was talking about a time when he was feeling paranoid. Then he cut off his discourse to say that he and I use the word "paranoid" to mean different things. He tried to explain his meaning of "paranoid." He said he meant he was angry during that period, but there was more to it than that. He never was able to articulate exactly what he meant. He just cut off his explanation, so I still don't know what he meant when he said he was "paranoid" then.

The fact that he felt the need to discuss his meaning of the word exemplifies the problem. If he tells me what his experience is, then I mention it to him later, he'll get frustrated and tell me that I didn't understand him. I'll say that I'm only saying what he said before. And he'll agree that that is what he said, but it isn't what he meant. Then I get frustrated, because how am I to know that what he says isn't what he means? He's gotten to the point where he doesn't want to try and explain his experiences to me, because he says I'll quote it back to him - or "use it against" him, in his words.

Anyway he's been having lots of anger issues lately. I really think we have the medication dose down to a level where we can work on some of the issues between us and within ourselves. He's not so sedated that he doesn't have access to the turmoil, but he's not so overwhelmed with negative emotions that he can't access the rational part of his mind. But if we're not speaking the same language, how can we resolve anything?

[KUREHA]

I don't know if this is similar, but my nurse usually says I misinterpret a lot of things because of my illness.

[costello]

Originally Posted by KUREHA

I don't know if this is similar, but my nurse usually says I misinterpret a lot of things because of my illness.

I think it's very similar. My son also misinterprets things a lot. This weekend he was just very angry over very minor things - things that really should have been just irritants at worst.

He was upset because a cop waved at him when he was downtown on Friday. Well, he's had a lot of negative interactions with police, so he decided this cop was deliberately trying to hassle him.

Then he got really mad because my dog ate a piece of used dental floss out of his trash can. I know - yuck! But really how mad can you get about that?

So, Saturday afternoon he was stewing about these two things and inflating them into major things. And somehow making them my fault. So, I went to talk to him about them, and he flew into a rage - just screaming. He knew I was going to tell him these things weren't that bad - which I was. He finally screamed himself out, and we were able to process it a bit. Obviously he's really mad about something else.

Still Sunday he was very angry with me. It depletes my energy to work through these things. Sometimes I just don't feel like I have any more to give. I need a break. And he just turns on me. I feel like I'm working so hard here - supporting him - and he just rips me down.

He said an interesting thing. He said he wants to avoid another crisis - police involvement or forced treatment - because he doesn't want to "stop the growth." And he's right. I think - I hope! - he needs to work through whatever's making him so angry. But once one of the systems get ahold of you, the whole goal is to sedate the rage because it scares them so much.

I don't want to stop the growth either, but I need a break.

[Shoe]

I think it was Jung who wrote that once a schizophrenic is truly understood they are no longer a schizophrenic.(something like that)
English is not my girl friend's first language and there are times when things get misunderstood. I try to make it a rule not to get upset over situations where there is a lack of communication because of our language limitations. I figure it is just as much my fault for not being more fluent in her native tongue.
I had a psychiatrist tell me once that sometimes anger is guilt turned outward. Also, that same anger can get turned inward and express itself in self destructive behavior.
I read at Mahoney's website that the root of most anger and rage is sexual frustration. That make sense to me because I had this rancher once tell me that the more potent a bull is the meaner it is especially if it is penned up.
I was 30 years old before I finally moved out of my parents house. Because I could still fish from time to time I was able to buy a small travel trailer and rent a space at a trailer park.(it didn't really take that much money) That was the first real step in my road to recovery. Meeting up with my first live in girl friend was my next major step.

[FireBird]

Originally Posted by KUREHA

I don't know if this is similar, but my nurse usually says I misinterpret a lot of things because of my illness.

I also misinterpret things all the time. I also have autism though and it could be a part of that. I also get angry easily because of this. I am currently going to a new psychologist that specializes in autism. She definitely notices the autism in me even though its so mild that when people first meet me they wouldn't notice it. When I was young I was a lot worse. I love socializing with people which is not very autistic. I never knew that misinterpreting things can also be part of schizophrenia.

[mgran]

I used to have great rows with my Dad about things in retrospect that shouldn't have caused a problem at all. He would express concern for my well being, I would see that as him judging me, and trying to control me. I remember one day when I had bad back ache I went to do the dishes and saw that my Dad had already done them. I was really grateful, because I was feeling so rough, and thanked him. The next day I went to do them again, and he'd finished them again... this time I screamed and yelled at him for trying to show me up. Even as I was screaming I knew something was wrong, and I couldn't for the life of me figure out what I was so angry about. To this day I haven't got a clue. It must have been very hard for my Dad trying to guess how I was going to react from one day to the next. Some days I would be full of energy and working well towards a clearly defined goal, the next day I'd be sitting looking out the window and not talking to anyone. Quite how my family didn't realise I was mentally ill is a mystery, but I do know that I made a lot of people very uncomfortable at this time, and miserable, not least myself.

I'm afraid I can't begin to describe exactly how I was feeling or thinking at the time, it pains me still to look back on it. Even when my moods weren't all over the place I was still suspicious of people's motives... and this does make you angry, particularly when the people you're suspicious of are the ones you love the most. When I was living away from my family things were swept out of sight... we'd have the painful telephone conversations followed by months of silence, then manage to put a face on it for a while as though everything was okay. It is still something I have to work on... hyper suspiciousness of my family's thoughts and motives concerning me is something that's deeply imbedded in me. I wish I knew why, they didn't do anything to harm me. But now that I recognise this is part of my condition I can fight it better.

It's very hard to confess to distrust of one's parent, when you love that parent. I didn't want to hurt my Dad's feelings by telling him the truth, but then because I was keeping a whopping big secret I was sure that he was also keeping a whopping big secret. Your son says that he sees you as an enigma etc... that's how I felt about others too. I didn't know what was going on behind their faces, and it scared me that they might not be who they seemed. Yes, they treated me with love... but why? What was behind that? I felt sure there were secret reasons to everything, and found it impossible to take anything at face value.

Perhaps this is part of what your son is going through.

[costello]

Originally Posted by FireBird

I also misinterpret things all the time. I also have autism though and it could be a part of that. I also get angry easily because of this.

I think my son's misinterpretations tend to be along the lines of assuming other people have some negative or hostile intent toward him. So he'll think someone is angry with him or doesn't like him.

It also seems like he gets angry easily because of misinterpretations of others' actions. Sometimes I wonder, though, which comes first - the anger or the misinterpretation.

It's interesting you mention autism. I've been reading a book called The Interpretation of Schizophrenia from the 1970's by a psychiatrist named Silvano Arieti. He had many years of experience working with patients in psychosis - much of it before psychotropic meds were available. He gives detailed descriptions of people with schizophrenia that he worked with over the years. He uses the word "autistic" to describe some advanced cases. He's not using it in the sense of the childhood disorder but to describe a person who is turned inward toward a fantasy world and failing to communicate with other people or engage with the outside world.

Also I remember talking to a psychologist when I was in the process of adopting. In my home study I said that I didn't want to adopt a child with psychosis. I was thinking of something like schizophrenia. This psychologist told me that when she speaks of psychosis in children, she means autism not schizophrenia. In fact she said sz in childhood is very rare.

So I'd say the two things are related. They both involve turning inward and failing to engage with the world.

[mgran]

I was diagnosed autistic at the age of four... though my father didn't tell me until last year. My son has asperger's syndrome. I'm still considered by my psychiatrist to be on the autistic spectrum, although I'm so verbal that she says it's hard to spot. I do get completely obsessed and can talk on endlessly about my special interests. Sometimes it's like I'm sitting next to myself, and this person is just spewing out facts and figures (usually linguistics, or religion, history or literature) and I just can't stop. It even embarasses me, and I still go on and on. Doesn't happen online so much because I can edit myself... still I completely sympathise with my son's social problems because I can remember so clearly what that felt like. I hope he doesn't inherit the rest of my problems.

[costello]

Originally Posted by mgran

Perhaps this is part of what your son is going through.

Probably. Your experiences with your dad sound exactly like those I have with my son. He has certainly told me straight up that I'm too critical and controlling. And I can see how he gets there. When you're young, your parents do control you, and they correct you all the time. Then when you have trouble in early adulthood and your parents come to your rescue, it's easy to fall back into that role of being parent and child - even though you're both adults.

I've fallen in love with a psychiatrist named Silvano Arieti. I happened to pick up a book by him on the last day of the local library book sale - when they're giving all the remaining books away for free. The book is called The Interpretation of Schizophrenia (1974), and it assumes more of a psychological basis of sz than modern books do. I liked the book so much I ordered his little guide to schizophrenia for family and friends. At the time he was writing, people would often spend a long time in the hospital. So when they were released the question of where they were going to live was a biggie. He discusses in some detail the difference between those being released back to their parents' home as opposed to those going back to live with their spouse. The risk is that the patient will fall back into the role of child when living with parents.

Even as I'm typing this out, I feel like I'm gaining insights into my son's predicament. A week ago or so, we happened to be driving past the homeless shelter. He pointed at it and said to me, "That's where I'd be if it weren't for you." Then last Saturday he was accusing me of being deliberately mean to him. From my point of view, it's so confusing. One day I'm a hero; the next, a total jerk.

But how scary it must be from his point of view! To feel dependent on your mother at the age of 26. And I know he doesn't trust himself anymore. He's scared to get a car and a job, because he hasn't had a lot of success in recent years. He's scared he's going to blow it. No wonder he's so pissed off.

I just wish he wouldn't take it out on me. It's tiring to feel like I have to hold it together all the time. Then sometimes when he goes on the attack, I just don't think I have the strength to bear up.

[costello]

Originally Posted by mgran

I hope he doesn't inherit the rest of my problems.

You have so many lovely gifts to pass on to your son, mgran. I hope he inherits your intelligence and your kindness - my absolute all-time favorite qualities in other people.

[mgran]

Thank you Costello. And I'm sure that your son has gained so much strength and love from you that your relationship will survive even the choppiest waters.