[Sometimes psychotic]

Behind the yellow door, a man?s mental illness worsens - The Washington Post

So I'm going to warn you this article is written from the perspective of family and society regarding increasing the ability of pdocs to involuntarily commit people and they are specifically targeting people with psychosis. Basically the guy paints his door yellow and locks himself inside leaving only to maintain his yard and pick up the groceries his mom brings him. He's delusional and has loose associations. It was interesting for me to read because what he's doing is incredibly benign but its freaking out his family and they are worried so to "help" him they want him in a psych hospital. He hasn't ended up there yet but to help him the ex-wife sold the house so he'll end up on the street. It's not like this is his first break----he was already committed once and rejected care. But it's interesting how people justify their actions as help even when they are unwanted and result in net harm. I haven't read all of the comments yet but there is even one there from a psych nurse saying hospitalization is in no way the answer for this. Plus there always seems to be this underlying assumption that people will just get better if they take meds when 30% of people don't even respond to APs and delusions are really the hardest to treat...

So if you were in this situation would you choose the yellow door safe in your home with some care from your family or the locked door on a ward and most of us know what that's like....

[Sometimes psychotic]

I choose the yellow door----if I want care it's going to be outpatient or not at all...

[costello]

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

Plus there always seems to be this underlying assumption that people will just get better if they take meds...

I haven't read the article yet, but I wanted to respond to this statement.

I've noticed that some thing. Commenters on Internet articles make it sound like it's so easy. Take the meds, and you'll be well. They don't seem to understand that not everyone gets well with meds. Not everyone even improves with meds. And side effects can be significant.

[Atypical_Disaster]

So if you were in this situation would you choose the yellow door safe in your home with some care from your family or the locked door on a ward and most of us know what that's like....

Yellow door for me. Hospitals have never helped me. If anything, they've made matters worse for me.

I've noticed that some thing. Commenters on Internet articles make it sound like it's so easy. Take the meds, and you'll be well. They don't seem to understand that not everyone gets well with meds. Not everyone even improves with meds. And side effects can be significant.

Exactly. Yes, meds can improve things... but the media really over inflates what meds can actually do. It's not as simple as oh take a pill and all of your problems will be solved.

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by costello

I haven't read the article yet, but I wanted to respond to this statement.

I've noticed that some thing. Commenters on Internet articles make it sound like it's so easy. Take the meds, and you'll be well. They don't seem to understand that not everyone gets well with meds. Not everyone even improves with meds. And side effects can be significant.

Yeah this is all about who has the power and the voice and that's predominantly the drug companies----certainly pdocs have a voice as well but it doesn't help their cause to mention treatment doesn't always work. That leaves the people who are psychotic to try and sort it out and it can be a little hard for people to believe people who are psychotic. This is one of the reasons I really like Robert Whitaker...he's a perfectly normal respected guy----you know just a reporter but he pulls out the science and is like ummm look here's evidence that the meds can be harmful its in your own journals and you guys are just ignoring it...

[Bells129]

Personally, I think hospitals are used way too much when home therapy should be the number 1 unless that person is at serious risk of harming themselves or other people. Being in hospital can cause significant trauma and do much more harm than good. I was there for a very short period and it messed me up, I was planning my escape and then suicide the whole time until eventually I was let out and allowed therapy at home.

[tealBumblebee]

Very interesting article, and sad story. I'm completely on the man's side as he's proven he's not a threat to anyone. I've always said, "If I want to be crazy, let me be. If I don't threaten or cause harm to anyone else and am on my own property - just leave me alone to live my life the way I see fit."

Even my T has said, there is nothing worse than being forced to do something that we don't want to do.

[costello]

I've read this whole story, and my heart goes out to his family - especially his mother. I don't think they should have sold the house out from under him if they could afford to keep it. I think the mom's instincts to keep providing food and money and to find meaning in what he said were correct.

Parts of this story remind me of my own struggles to help my son. I really think you have to make some kind of peace with the idea that there's only so much you can do. You just have to be there and ready to step in if you see an opening. With him gone, they can't do that. And you have to maintain trust and an open line of communication. Police, handcuffs, and lengthy involuntary hospitalizations run counter to that.

There's no formula for how to deal with these things. And when they happen you don't really know what to do. There's this long learning curve. And frankly not all mentally ill people are the same. What one would find intrusive, another would find helpful.

That's just a really, really sad story with no easy answers.

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by costello

And frankly not all mentally ill people are the same. What one would find intrusive, another would find helpful.
.

Thus the poll----some people would for themselves want forced treatment for sure I know Elyn Saks advocates for that in some situations including first breaks and is considerably more tolerant of hospitalization in general. I think Fred Freese thinks similarly.
For myself its hard----it's possible I could get into a situation where I had no insight quite easily but if I think if I were stabilized by force I would go vigilante after that----when the law actively opposes and oppresses who you are as a person you tend to rail against it. Still I'm generally a pretty compliant person and I imagine with enough talking I would get the help I needed on a voluntary basis so long as it was outpatient.

I admit its sad all around but I would still choose the yellow door....

[TheatreKid]

It may be an unpopular opinion, but if it were me, I would want forced treatment. Nothing scares me more than my psychoses, and every time I come out of one I need to do some soul searching. I have had psychoses with violent fantasies and if I had ever acted on one it would have been horrible. Maybe I'm different from this man because most of my psychoses were not benign, I was a danger to myself for sure, but really, is there a benign psychosis? I would not want to live like that. Sure, he's not harming anyone, but doesn't anyone wonder how he feels? Is he terrified? I would be.

If I was exhibiting those symptoms I would want someone to force treatment on me. Like when I was anorexic - I probably would have died if my school hadn't kicked me out until I'd gone through treatment. I know psychosis is different, but to me, if I ever end up like that I want forced treatment.

I also wouldn't want to be such a worry to my family and friends. I hate when people worry about me, and it seems his family's worry is affecting their health. I have lost friends who have said I'm too much worry to deal with, so my main goal in life is to be as little a worry as possible.

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by TheatreKid

It may be an unpopular opinion, but if it were me, I would want forced treatment. Nothing scares me more than my psychoses, and every time I come out of one I need to do some soul searching. I have had psychoses with violent fantasies and if I had ever acted on one it would have been horrible. Maybe I'm different from this man because most of my psychoses were not benign, I was a danger to myself for sure, but really, is there a benign psychosis? I would not want to live like that. Sure, he's not harming anyone, but doesn't anyone wonder how he feels? Is he terrified? I would be.

If I was exhibiting those symptoms I would want someone to force treatment on me. Like when I was anorexic - I probably would have died if my school hadn't kicked me out until I'd gone through treatment. I know psychosis is different, but to me, if I ever end up like that I want forced treatment.

I also wouldn't want to be such a worry to my family and friends. I hate when people worry about me, and it seems his family's worry is affecting their health. I have lost friends who have said I'm too much worry to deal with, so my main goal in life is to be as little a worry as possible.

In your case I don't think you'll have to worry if you are a danger to self you already meet the legal criteria. But I guess my feeling about this is once you hit the first break and know what can happen you should be able to fill out some paperwork opting in or out for common situations....unlike you I don't assume he was scared my psychosis was for quite some time a positive experience....he seems fixed on the sun and the color yellow it doesn't sound scary to me...

My family already worries about nothing....if it rains they call to check up on me if I don't respond quickly enough they'll call the police to check for accidents....this was before I ever got sick...at least it's justified now...but I cannot control their worry...

My actual feeling is rather than force reward should be used...if treatment were pleasant people would volunteer....if I got an ocean view luxury suite just for taking a few meds I'd be on board...but hey it's a lot cheaper to take people's rights away than offer them something they actually would like....

[TheatreKid]

I hate the hospital and would avoid it absolutely when I can, but I am happiest when I'm engaged with life, am doing something society views as productive, have friends, a social life, hobbies. Even if I didn't want treatment when I was sick, when I start withdrawing into a world I can't share with other people, I want help. Maybe because my experience with hospitals have been somewhat helpful and short stays. If the choice was to stay isolated in my own delusions and my own world or live in a hospital for the rest of my life, absolutely I'll choose the yellow door. But if there is an option of a short hospital stay to adjust medication and get me back to the person I KNOW I want to be when I'm well, that's been my experience and my choice.

I am finally in balance right now, healthier than I've ever been, productive, creative, friendly. I would fight to remain here. (Not judging anyone else's experiences. What I view as the best option may not be yours and I accept that. Just explaining my point of view.)

[Sometimes psychotic]

See for me the psychosis is way worse in the hospital it actually causes a further rift in my mind due the extreme boredom and provision of an environment where there is no way to succeed....they were always on about something....I was looking out the window and they told me it was self harm like I was going to jump....I was just sitting there. I don't think rolling out a closed window is going to work but hey I'm not the boss right? The puzzles were missing all the eyes...it freaked me out and there was no way to finish the puzzles etc. they lied to me about what the medication was for the amount of time I'd be there the fact that I could supposedly get out whenever I wanted. Once you are in it doesn't matter what they said....you still can't get out.

For me I was still working before going into the hospital but the hospitalization and aftermath cost me two weeks time....I tried it their way it was ineffective...I would not do it that way again...especially when you are given sedatives randomly without explanation because a pnurse wants an easy shift..

This was a good hospital so I'd hate to see a bad one....

If it got to the point of the yellow door for me it would be because the meds aren't effective anymore....I don't have any opposition to meds but that can be done outpatient I'm never giving anyone control over my life again...if the meds don't work the locked door ends up being the state hospital once your insurance runs out....

[Sometimes psychotic]

The government took control of this man?s life, for his own good, and refuses to give it back | Nation | Modesto Bee

Here is an article about a guy who is stuck behind the locked door despite being mentally competent....he was a hoarder and at some point took too much pain medication for a back injury....not even psychotic but deemed disabled and in need of a guardian....this is how it could be...

[junkDNA]

this is hard question for me to answer. cuz this has happened to me twice. the first time i was 16 and got sent involuntarily to a residential treatment program that abused me physically and psychologically. i was there for 8 months. i still dont know how i made it thru that. i wanted to kill myself there but there was literally no way to do that because the residents were watched 24/7. even in the shower. that was a very bad experience for me.

i was also committed against my will on christmas eve 2012 by my current T. i was very angry about it until the pdoc at the hospital i was sent to put me on risperdal (i had never been on it before) and it helped me so much he even commented about how much better i looked. it stopped the voices and the paranoia. it saved my life. when i think about my life in the months before T committed me it is very dark. i was financially broke and completely isolated. i was going days without sleeping or eating. one time i was so hungry that i ate dry cat food. another time i was so hungry that i ate a moldy onion raw but i threw it up. i told T about the onion and he tried to give me 10 dollars to buy some food. i had a plan to kill myself on christmas day. i had been saving up my meds and not taking them. so when i got put on the risperdal shot it was like a miracle to me. i had a reason to live again. i wanted recovery and felt hope that it was possible. that was the last time i have been in the hospital. i havent been in the hospital for 1.5 years and counting. before that i was going every 3 months . and its not like i wanted to go there. i fu_king hate the hospital more than anything. i basically had the chocie of going voluntarily or T calling the police. so i chose voluntary each time even though it really wasnt.

so i cant say which one i would choose. i guess im leaning towards forced treatment but i know that is because i am clearly a danger to myself if i am in that state.

[Sometimes psychotic]

JunkDNA I would say the second scenario fits with the current laws on forced treatment which I agree with even if I don't enjoy....if you're going to hurt yourself (or someone else) then yeah it's protective but this guy behind the yellow door well he was not dangerous to himself or others he just shut out society but he was physically healthy although delusional. He just fixated on the sun and painted everything yellow. I think the question in my mind was if you're at a point where you've gotten weird and aren't working or interacting with anyone is that enough where you would like forced treatment to return to your normal life or would you prefer to keep the laws how they are now and potentially spend your remaining years trapped in a delusion until you personally made the choice to get help. This of course gets complicated based on what you think your insight and your response to meds would be...

Thanks for this article Sometimes! It really is thought provoking. I guess my issue with it is the assumption that meds/hospitalisation = a return to normal life, when that is not always the case. If I had to choose between getting my previous life back through meds and hospitalisation vs continuing as I am, then I would probably choose psychiatry, even though hospitalisation was one of the most demeaning experiences of my life. But I haven't found meds worth the side effects or hospitalisation worth the trauma, so to choose between feeling as I do now in hospital vs out of hospital, then I would NEVER allow myself to be hospitalised again. I'm not sure I will be able to get over how traumatic I found hospitalisation and forced ECT, and the fact that they expected me to be grateful for their 'help' is particularly galling.

*Willow*

[costello]

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

The government took control of this man?s life, for his own good, and refuses to give it back | Nation | Modesto Bee

Here is an article about a guy who is stuck behind the locked door despite being mentally competent....he was a hoarder and at some point took too much pain medication for a back injury....not even psychotic but deemed disabled and in need of a guardian....this is how it could be...

That's an extremely sad story.