[DazedandConfused]

I am curious, because I have a sister who is bipolar and says she is also 'Border line Schizophrenic'. When I am with her, she is telling the voices in her head to 'shut-up'. Also says there is a lady in her apartment that wears pink, but her Dr. says not to interact with the hallucination or it will grow stronger. The lady in pink sometimes closes my sisters door to her room, but the door is not really closed. At one point my sister wasn't taking her meds because she ran out, and for some reason it is way too difficult for her to pick the meds up at the pharmacy herself. Usually someone does it for her. She had a terrible time that night at a religious meeting where she went into the back and started fighting with herself loudly in front of everyone. The story broke my heart. Just relating this because I want to understand what she is going through and offer what support I can. Thankyou for adding this to the message board so I may read what others have to say and understand it more.

[SweetCrusader]

I have never heard of border line schizophrenia (and I'm a psych major, yet schizophrenia isn't one of my top interests I admit...) Is it possible that your sister means she has borderline personality disorder AND schizophrenia?

Angela

[apislily]

I would interpret "borderline schizophrenic" to mean that she has some of the symptoms but doesn't quite fulfill all the criteria for schizophrenia. My aunt is "borderline diabetic" which means that her blood sugar is high, but not consistently high enough to be definitively diagnosed with diabetes. I would think the terminology would be similar.

Good luck! It sounds like your sister is lucky to have such a supportive sister!

-apislily

[SweetCrusader]

I guess that would be possible. I would think a clinician wouldn't diagnose schizophrenia in that case, though, but maybe the T is thinking it's a possibility, depending on if more symptoms appear or something. I do think you may be right, though. It might be that the sister is only having hallucinations, and no other symptoms (such as delusions, etc) and therefore does not quite qualify for diagnosis. Also, it appears that the hallucinations (& other symptoms) need to last at least 6 months. I won't get any more detailed about diagnostic criteria (YAWN! lol!)

I pulled out my DSM and read up a little bit on schizophrenia, and there is no diagnosis for "border line schizophrenia" for sure.

Anyway, sorry if I'm boring you, DazedandConfused. It seems like you do have some understanding of what your sister is going through. These experiences that you describe that she is having are very real to her, so you can imagine she is likely to be really confused and scared a lot of the time.

Is she on any medication? That is generally a critical part of treatment for schizophrenia. I had a boss with schizophrenia who always hallucinated without his medication, but didn't when he was on it. (He continued to have delusions off the medication, though).

Do you have any specific questions about it that maybe we can help you with? Or are you looking more for personal accounts?

Angela

[DazedandConfused]

Thankyou for all of the information. I guess I actually am trying to figure out what I want to know. My family seems to have quite a few brain disorders, and I am trying to sort things. I have a younger brother who was diagnosed with bipolar and ocd. My sister is bipolar with the schiztophrenic symptoms, my half brother is ADHD, and those are just the things they have talked about. I have only been diagnosed with OCD and depression. And I figured out the OCD on my own (thank goodness to talk shows you can relate to--and I am not talking Jerry Springer!) and went to my Dr. My father was a recluse and alcoholic (self medication). I strongly feel he was bipolar. Also thought people were following him. Would dress in a trenchcoat, hat and sunglasses to go out before he had his leg amputated from diabetes. My husband and I flew out to see him a few years before he died. He always slept on the sofa. At night he would start screaming 'NO! Don't!' and cry out like he was scared and being attacked. My husband and I couldn't do anything for him because he also had a loaded gun underneath the sofa cushion he was laying on. My mother--not sure what she has, but it is something. She has admitted to OCD symptoms and swear she has depression, though she denies it. She refers to me as the 'Normal One' to people she has told my brother and sister about. Gee, it's a great feeling. Anyway, trying to sort things out and figure where I am in the midst of this. Am going to be seeking out therapy after we get some things figured out. I am happy for this board because it will help me understand the aspects of what my family deals with by others sharing their experiences. Thankyou everyone!

[SweetCrusader]

Ok, this could be a hasty assumption, but perhaps your dad was schizophrenic as well, or had some other schizophrenia-related disorder, like schizotypal or something? It sounds like he may have had some paranoid delusions and possibly hallucinations. Does that sound right? Or was his hypervigilance caused by something that happened in real life to him, like in PTSD?

Schizophrenia and OCD both have strong biological components. There is some evidence to suggest that schizophrenia is a sex-linked trait, at least in some cases, meaning that it's passed down most commonly from mother to son genetically. But the thing about mental disorders with biological components is that only a TENDENCY is inherited, and it takes environmental stressors to actually cause the disorder to become full-blown. Sounds like your family HAS had those stressors.

I'm glad to hear you will be getting some therapy. I think everyone in the whole world should try it at least once!!

Angela

[DazedandConfused]

I have the feeling my dad leaned towards that also, after what I saw. My younger brother and sister (especially sister) grew up making a wild past for themselves. I tried so hard to love my sister, but she seemed so cruel and selfish when we were younger. I just didn't understand, but knew something was not right. My younger brother was a much milder version of her. It took a car accident a few years back to 'trigger' the bipolar to the degree she has today. I remember when she stayed with my husband and I for a few months and threatened suicide. We took her to a therapist. When I was with her as she was being pre-screened I remember the question coming up 'Do you hear voices in your head?' She said yes. The lady asked, 'Do they tell you to do things?' where my sister replied 'They tell me I'm stupid.'
My brother's bipolar was 'triggered' by the stress of his father-in-law firing him from the family business. (They have since made up) After he was diagnosed, he seemed to really lose it (probably coming out of denial?) and let it take control. He is a different person now when I see him. I use to say he had 'ego-lation', which was a term I coined for his macho behavior, but now he seems so self-absorbed he loses sight of taking care of his family.
Me? Sometimes I feel as if I can't deal with my family and the drama. Want to wisk my husband away to a far away land (Thailand? Nah, Hawaii.) and for us to live there happily. Having my mother and step-father move in with us has been a 'learning experience'. I will leave it at that.
The PTSD sounds like it could be something my dad dealt with. When my grandmother went to bars, she would lock him in the car for hours at a time while she had a good time. Do you know who Hop-a-long Cassidy was? He use to go up to the valley where my grandparents lived. He wanted to adopt my father as his son, and give him a better life, but my grandmother wouldn't let him. My father never forgave her for that. Kept a picture of Hop-a-long on his livingroom wall and would stare at it sometimes. He was a dreamer.

[SweetCrusader]

Wow! You have got a LOAD to deal with!!

I sense that you feel a lot of responsibility toward your family, am I right? Please just remember to take care of you (and your marriage- this stuff could be a real strain on that).

I don't know of hop-along Cassidy. ??

I don't know much else to say right now. But I'm still here to listen and support, ok?

((((hugs)))))
Angela

[ktp]

I learned about Hop-a-long from my grandparents. Their kids watched it.

I know I can completely and utterly relate to your story. I was so shocked to see the schizophrenia forums!!!!! I'm so glad they're here.

I think I may know what you're talking about with the borderline schizophrenia. See my cousin is bipolar with schizophrenic "tendencies" as the social security disability psychiatrist put it. His most predominant brain disorder is bipolar (with extreme mania, ego-mania, the whole bit) He also hears voices from time to time and also he is paranoid. I think it just means they have some of the symptoms but not enough to be classified "schizophrenic".

However my brother is schizophrenic. He also has alot of the symptoms of bipolar. Complete opposites, see. I have a strong family history of brain disorders. A few really sad stories that I won't share at the moment (triggering) and also some stories alot like yours, with the self-medication. My mother's #1 form of treatment until recently.

My brother is my first baby. He pretty much looked to me to be his mom. When I married, my husband took to him as well. He has been right there with me supporting him and caring for him. But Angela is right it can take a toll on the marriage, so please pay alot of attention to that. So when I saw this board, weird as it sounds, I was elated because I have always tried to do things to help him and with knowledge comes understanding and also the ability to help and be able to talk to them.

Your story about your sister reminds me of my brother. When he's off his medication he used to ask me if I could see the helicopters. They were taking off out of the ditches beside the house. I never said one way or the other because if you didn't see it was way worse and I didn't want to lie to him so I was just like oh really. If he saw them, nothing I said was going to change it. It just indicated to me that his meds weren't right or he wasn't taking them. Which was a major problem with him after he was diagnosed at 15.

Angela, it's interesting about the genetics. My family history of mental illness comes from my mother's side. And both sides of her parent's families had mental illness. Sometimes I wonder what the statistics are for passing it to my children, predominance according to the sex of the person, things of that nature.

I am rambling on and on. Anyway, Dazed, I'm glad you're here and please come back and I'll have plenty to discuss with you regarding this subject. Maybe we can help each other understand.

Take Care.

[(JD)]

Dazed, borderline schizophrenia is where the symptoms are mild or where there is a preexisting tendency to have schizophrenic symptoms... which, if someone else in the family had it, would create that tendency.

the depression might exist because of the dx and the idea that life, at prime, isn't going to happen and has changed just when everything should be wide open for you...

medication is important, therapy is equally important, and family support is key also. With these 3, it's "doable."

Schizophrenics often have a debate with themselves about taking medicine, and by not deciding, or not being able to secure meds themselves, they allow the "other reality" to intrude. Often, this element and feeling within the "other reality" or place or whatever, is more desirable than real life!

[Maya]

My mother was paranoid schizophrenic and when she was on her medication she was the sweetest, kindest person you could ever meet. However, whenever she was off her meds (her idiot doctor took her off it twice in ten years and both times she had to be Baker Acted into the psych ward) she was off the wall. She would peer around bushes and say people were following her, that people were in her room doing sexual things. She would go outside in her nightie (she was in her 80s and in an assisted living facility) and tell the staff that my brother was coming to take her "home". She would go into rages and scream and throw things and be somewhat dangerous to be around. Unfortunately, she was not diagnosed until I was 13 and I grew up with total uncertainty regarding a lack of safety in life. But, what I am trying to say is, medication is critical to treatment. At various times she was diagnosed with depression with schizoid tendencies in addition to paranoid schizophrenia. The love and support of family is important to those who have schizophrenia - to make certain they take their meds as well as to reassure them they are loved and supported. Hope this helps.

[DazedandConfused]

Thanks everyone for the helpful posts. There are some great suggestions I will use. So is there really a brain disorder called 'ego-mania'? That describes my younger brother, who is also bipolar and OCD. Also, I have pondered having children or not because of all of the probs in my family. I even have a nephew with autism. What would my poor children inherit?

[ktp]

Dazed:

I referred to ego-mania as the grandiosity that people with bipolar tend to have when in manic state. My cousin gets that real bad. I'm not sure if it's an accepted mental illness state, but I've seen it with my own two eyes and that's sure what it looks like to me

Let me give you a rundown of my family history and then I'll tell you a little about myself. (This might be long...sorry, but it pertains to the children question).

First of all, my family history is pretty wraught with brain disorders. My maternal great grandmother was institutionalized a longggg time ago for psychosis. They said she had a "brain tumor" because mental illness was not considered in the same light it is today. My maternal great grandmother was suffering from delusions, as Alzheimer's wreaked havoc on his brain. My maternal grandfather was diagnosed "manic depressive" in 1969. At that time, in the small hick town he lived with the old town doctor said, "He could control himself if he wanted to." No meds, if he was strong enough and had enough faith he could do it. It took a long time for them to get out of this frame of mind. My mother's only brother was the first of the children to be diagnosed. He was diagnosed as manic in the late 70's, while in his late twenties. My mother was hospitalized in 1978 with a "nervous breakdown". She went on for many years to "medicate herself" with drugs and alcohol. Her only sister was diagnosed at age 25 with paranoid schizophrenia. She was also a self-medicator. My grandpa's sister was diagnosed manic and two of her six children were diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic. One committed suicide. One lives in and out of psychosis.

My mother's only sister's only son was diagnosed with Bipolar but had schizophrenic tendencies. Hears voices, delusions, but some of that also goes along with bipolar. My brother was diagnosed at age 15 with paranoid schizophrenia with many symptoms of bipolar disorder.

I am the oldest of five siblings. I have been diagnosed with major depression and anxiety/panic disorders NOS. Next in line is a brother, he is 8 months younger than me, born prematurely. He goes through paranoia, delusions, grandiosity. He will not seek treatment. I've tried with him. He just won't do it. It's frustrating. Then, my younger sister, she has ideas of grandiosity. I really think she has bipolar disorder. She was being treated for PTSD several months back and just quit. Now depression has set in. She never went long enough to get an accurate diagnosis other than the PTSD. Then is Josh, who is schizophrenic. And then my baby brother, he is 20 and in a perpetual state of childhood. He is so innocent still. A married man, working, in the military, but so childlike and innocent. He tries so hard to please everyone.

Now having said the family history. I think that environment plays a role, in our case anyway.

My brother and I, as the oldest were abandoned at age 3 and 4. My mother always self-medicated and had left us several times before with her parents, but this time she was gone for 4 1/2 years. When she did come back around, my dad didnt know it but she was really heavily into drugs. I was emotionally/ mentally abused and also physically abused. She hated me, resented me, took her rage out on me. But I wanted so much for her to love me, that I never said anything. My brother, she never wanted, and she ignored him mercilessly (and I guess mercifully).

My brother with schizophrenia had alot of the symptoms of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. He had speech problems, and also alot of birth defects (that couldn't be seen on the outside). She told me one time that she was "so drunk she passed out the night before he was born". I asked her if she felt bad and she said Not really. She never showed him affection. She hated him as well because she said, his dad loved him more than he loved her. So she doted on the other two kids, to make up for it. At this time, the two oldest were forgotten. When we started visiting her again. I was 9 years old and Josh became "my baby". He was always on my lap and giving me hugs and it was worth whatever I had to go through to be able to give him the affection he deserved. he was such a sweet little boy.

Now....having said all the depressing crap.....

I will relay my life today. Married for 10 years. Had my first child at 16. My daughter is now 11. She has a brother, who is 8 and a baby sister who is 6. They are secure and happy children. They come to us (my husband and I) for everything. Nothing is taboo. I want my children to know that I love them no matter what. I'm hoping I'm making a difference by breaking the cycle. But I don't have on my rose colored glasses just yet, these are brain DISORDERS, not something that someone 'causes' but I do believe the environment plays a role as to the severity of the situation. My children do have an added tendency for mental illness and it can happen to anybody. But I'm here and I'm watching and I'm doing my best to let them know they're going to be accepted no matter what. They have little fear of mentally ill people. Their favorite Uncle is schizophrenic. He's like their big brother and we are both proud of him, he's our oldest "child".

Footnote: My mother, finally, at age 44, was hospitalized in Aug. and got her diagnosis. Bipolar disorder, psychosis, major recurrent depression, PTSD, and atypical DID. She is now being treated...

[SweetCrusader]

Feelings of grandiosity ("ego-mania") are a feature of a lot of different mental disorders. Some borderlines, some bipolars, and some schizophrenics experience feeling like they are invincible or wonderful and amazing, etc.

My schizophrenic boss had what are known as "delusions of grandeur" in which he believed he would save the world and had visions of himself with a long white beard and as a savior figure. This is a pretty extreme form, but it is one form that such a state can take.

Hope this helps!
Angela

[ktp]

Oh Angela...when I read that. I could relate.

My cousin (bipolar) has quit getting his check, left my grandparent's home to become a "missionary". Now I believe if that gives him comfort or drive then go for it. But he has become a nomad, "saving poor lost souls". He believes himself to be the modern day equivolent of Jesus Christ. Needless to say, he's off the Lithium. I just had to comment after reading about your boss.

Take Care.
Kimberly

[SweetCrusader]

My boss was still like that when ON the lithium!! But he didn't actively try to do anything. He felt it was a prophecy for later in his life.

I really felt for him. He also, if he went off his medication, saw thousands of deamons surrounding his appartment wanting to kill him. How terrifying would that be?

Angela

[ktp]

Oh that would be extremely frightening The poor guy...

My cousin is actively doing his missionary work right now. Not all of it is bad, I mean I wish he was on his meds and being treated, because I've seen some of the things he goes through even when he is on the meds, off it's 10 times worse. He truly believes its his "calling" and he totes his bible and helps homeless people find shelter and other things. That is the part that's not bad ( I have a deep empathy for the homeless and all the problems that cause/multiply it). But then he's not eating and has lost tons of weight and he himself has no place to stay. It's so sad....

My brother's hallucinations were about like that, except mostly they were mundane things...Helicopters, insects, things in that nature. The voices are what drove him mad. I used to sit and rub his back and just cry trying to help him, he was just squeezing his head trying to "shut them up"......It was a horrible position to be in, but I realized even then, that it's 100 times worse to be in his shoes....

It makes me realize how lucky I am....so far....

Take Care.
Kimberly

[DazedandConfused]

Thankyou so much for sharing everyone. And for your family background ktp. It is just dawning on me how these brain disorders run in families. For my siblings and me, it didn't hit full force until our late 20's and now early thirties. I am considered the 'normal' one, as well as the 'good' one growing up. With what my siblings have to endure, I carry guilt for not having to deal with what they do. Then I get a bit envious that while I am more of a recluse, they get out and do things. They at times can be so charming and draw people to them, but have difficulty retaining the deeper relationships.
Thanks again everyone. These posts have me thinking a lot. More than I am writing down, as it is helpful to understand all of this.