[Rapunzel]

I'm really happy for those of you who have stopped hurting yourselves. Really, that's wonderful! I admire you so much. Can you tell me what motivated you to stop? Some feel so bad about giving in to it. Why? If you feel bad about about self-injuring, then you just wind up feeling worse and it becomes a vicious circle. I have felt bad sometimes because other people are hurt about me doing things to myself, but I don't feel bad about it for my own sake.

When I have tried to stop, it was because somebody else wanted me to stop, or because I felt bad about the trouble that I had caused someone, particularly my husband. But SI (one method or another) has always been part of my life, and I have never really wanted to change that. Now I have gotten to the point where I can pick up a knife and cut myself for no reason whatsoever, even when I'm not feeling depressed. It could be just because the scars have faded too much, or it feels like it has been too long since I have done it. When I do try to stop, I have to replace it with something else. Not eating, not drinking water, depriving myself of chocolate until I give in and eat so much chocolate that I make myself sick, exercising to the point of sore muscles, sabotaging something that I really wanted to do. And it never lasts. Eventually I revert back to SI, but I continue to maintain the new self-destructive behavior, and just add to the list. At any given moment I can probably resist any urge to SI, but sometimes I just don't care to resist it. I mostly don't even care who knows about it anymore. I'm not doing any serious damage - it's all superficial. It rarely gets infected or anything, but if it does I think that's great too. I never treat the wounds either. They usually don't require it.

Any ideas? I'm sorry for being such a hippocrit.

<font color=orange>"If we are going to insist that people pull themselves up by their own bootstraps, we must ensure that they have boots."</font color=orange>

[Fuzzybear]

I have no answers, but I just wanted to give you a hug {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Wendy}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

[Rapunzel]

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Fuzzy}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Thanks for the hug. I always appreciate getting a hug from you. I'm honestly not feeling bad at the moment though - just maybe a bit confused.
Wendy

<font color=orange>"If we are going to insist that people pull themselves up by their own bootstraps, we must ensure that they have boots."</font color=orange>

[armatage]

It sounds to me like you have a tendency to punish yourself for little or no reason at all. I suggest you work with that and try to reward yourself instead of punishing. That's all I can think of.

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.freewebs.com/armatage/>My Site</A>

[Rapunzel]

Thanks, Armatage. My T has told me that I "punish myself severely for things that other people wouldn't consider so bad." There might be something to that, but usually I don't see it as punishing myself.

<font color=orange>"If we are going to insist that people pull themselves up by their own bootstraps, we must ensure that they have boots."</font color=orange>

[Zenobia]

I have rarely thought of SI as punishing myself. There is only one form of it that has a punishing factor but I will not discuss that here. The other things I do from head banging to cutting is comforting. It releases tension and helps me cope.

Why stop self-injury? My reasons are simple. Self-injury never fixed anything for me. It allowed me to continue living in an intollerable situation. It let me "cope" with garbage that if I hadn't been hurting myself I would have had to take care of a lot sooner then I did. But instead of dealing with the problem I would hole up, hurt myself and then everything would be bearable for a little while longer.

Once I got into therapy and started dealing with the things that I couldn't before and started learning new skills I became frustrated because I was still hurting myself even though I knew how to take care of the situation productively. Then I couldn't understand why even though I was basically happy I would still go over the deep end about stuff that I had already learned how to cope with and change. That is when I started looking into the addictive aspect of self-injury. I needed to self-injure for self-injury's sake. But in order to get the affect I desired I had to work myself up. So I developed a cycle where once I went a certain amount of time without injury I would start creating a situation where I could get freaky and would "HAVE" to self injure to bring myself down. I would search things out or start arguments or make mistakes I wouldn't have made at work so I could get the cycle going so I could injure myself.

A perfect example of this is the fact that I have not self injured for the last 3 months. The first couple of months were horrible and the discomfort with fighting the cravings was painful enough to satisfy my craving. Odd isn't it? But this last month life has been good. I have hardly had any strong cravings, I have kept stable and content. But guess what! A couple of weeks ago I called my sister and told her I would come up and spend the night with her. I want to develop a "new relationship" with her. She is only one of my biggest childhood abusers. She made it her job to beat me when ever she had the chance and ridicule me and make me feel as useless and small as possible when I was a kid. She has out and out admitted to me that she hated me as long as we were growing up. Well, hmmmm, is this just another attempt to recreate the self-injury cycle? Probably.

So I believe that self-injury is a double edged sword. It releaves intense feelings and makes life livable but it also keeps life intollerable so that you can use it to make it liveable.
Carrie

<font color=green>But the implicit and usually unconscious bargain we make with ourselves is that, yes, we want to be healed, we want to be made whole, we're willing to go some distance, but we're not willing to question the fundamental assumptions upon which our way of life has been built, both personally and societally.--Bill Plotkin, Soulcraft

[Rapunzel]

Carrie,

Thank-you for your input. I really hope that you will be safe when you go to visit your sister, and that it works out in a positive way, not just a set-up for the self-injury cycle. ((((((((hugs))))))))) You know, I have always considered my sister to be an abuser too. That really surprised my T, especially since she is younger than me, but it was my sister who followed me around trying to enforce all of mom's restrictions, and telling me that I didn't have a chance and was sure to fail, so why try anything. I always felt like she was holding me back so that she could get ahead. She changed, and we are friends now, and she is supportive. A lot of that probably has to do with that she has a successful career and I haven't gotten very far in that domain, so she can feel superior, so that probably keeps her happy, but we do get along. Maybe you and your sister have a chance too.

So, SI as an addiction. Yes, that probably fits me. It's more than just SI that is addicting though. My identity consists of being a self-injurer, and includes all my diagnoses & stuff. I can't let go of it because I don't know who I would be without it. I'm afraid that there isn't anything else - or that it is the only thing about me that is interesting.

Carrie, be careful about spending time with your sister, ok? I do hope that you can build a new, positive relationship with her, but I don't want you to be hurt.
Wendy

<font color=orange>"If we are going to insist that people pull themselves up by their own bootstraps, we must ensure that they have boots."</font color=orange>

[Zenobia]

Wendy,
I totally get the identifying with the DX and the SI. That is part of why I had to leave here for the short period. It was part of the shift. My new T had me read a book called Stormy Search for Self. It was extremely difficult for me to read because it gave an alternate explanation for what I was going through. I won't go into what it was about but in order to read it I had to loosen my hold on my Belief of who I was. I had to re-evaluate just how much I had invested in my being diagnosed with BPD and my being a self-injurer. It also had me look at the possibility that my belief could possibly be wrong even though being diagnosed was the first time in my life that anything made any sense. It is hard to give it up. On the other hand I think that even though it has served a valuable purpose and made it possible to change my life, my identification with my dx has run it course and now actually hinders my progress. Same with SI. Though it kept me alive for years and made it possible for me to exist, it too has become a hinderance to my moving forward and growing as a human. It was so strange. As I thought about these things I could actually feel a kind of shift inside. It was like that empty feeling that always sent me into a closet to eradicate with some form of SI but at the same time it was totally different. In the end I decided that I want to identify myself as someone who is essentially well who just is in the process of finding out what being well is.
Anyway, sorry I got off on a tangent there.
Carrie

<font color=green>But the implicit and usually unconscious bargain we make with ourselves is that, yes, we want to be healed, we want to be made whole, we're willing to go some distance, but we're not willing to question the fundamental assumptions upon which our way of life has been built, both personally and societally.--Bill Plotkin, Soulcraft

[Rapunzel]

Carrie,

Thanks again. I didn't think that you went off on a tangent. Finding a real identity is probably my main issue. Growing up, my parents insisted that they owned me. They didn't allow me to have an identity, or even really to pursue interests, beyond being their child. That was the only identity that was really acceptable. My attempts to develop an identity focused on group affiliations and relationships. I was a member of the marching band, so-and-so's girlfriend, and then wife. A student, a goat breeder. Eventually I started to base my identity more on the things I did, but there was still affiliation involved in it too. I still needed an individual identity, something that defined who I am. Maybe being a self-injurer was a step in that direction. This past year I have had an identity as a student again, but that one is lost now. I guess I just want to be somebody. Erik Erikson said that having a negative identity was more tolerable than having no identity. It seems that he was right. I don't know if I'm at the point of being able to want to identify myself as being essentially well, yet, but I have been trying to figure out what that would be like, and who I would be, and how to live that way. I don't think it is possible to let go of the old identity without having a new one to replace it with.

I've been doing a lot of reading lately, and will try to find that book you mentioned.
Wendy

<font color=orange>"If we are going to insist that people pull themselves up by their own bootstraps, we must ensure that they have boots."</font color=orange>

[SweetCrusader]

Wendy,

Well I guess my case is a lot different from everyone else's here. I've stopped one form of si but I continue with other forms that I didn't realize were si until recently. As you know, I stopped cutting myself two years ago. To be honest, my reason for doing so was jacked up. I had decided that si was a sin against God. Let me say before I continue: I DO NOT AGREE WITH A VIEWPOINT THAT SAYS SI IS A SIN. IT IS NOT A SIN, IT'S A COPING MECHANISM. I think it's wrong to pronounce judgement on ourselves or others who si, but I have to be honest and admit that when I stopped, that was the reason why. I guess it worked for me. Nothing else would have stopped me. I think you're right when you say that feeling guilty over it just makes the problem worse. What it did for me was make me not want anything to do with God because He might be mad at me for cutting the body He gave me. And still today, I admit that this is the biggest reason I don't si. I've never told anybody that.

I have only one other reason- and that is fear of inadequacy. I avoid si to save face. I put a lot of pressure on myself to be perfect, so now that I have a 2-year record of no cutting, if I were to do it again, I think I would feel like a total failure. Which is really stupid, because I don't see anyone else as a failure when they si. I just want to help them, and I recognize they are hurting. They seem totally justified. But to me, I just seem weak and melodramatic and lame.

That said, my reasons SUCK! I wish I could find a better reason. Sometimes when I listen to that Alanis Morissette song "I'm Sorry to Myself" that I gave you, I think I really am sorry for how badly I've treated myself. But that just leaves me in the guilt cycle again. And I feel like I can't get anything right.

I wish I could offer some "sagely" advise, as if I had abstained from si completely and for beautifully healthy reasons, but I haven't. I often like to pretend I come in such a pretty package, though. I si in a lot of ways that are easier to deny and cover up now. I pretend that they aren't si because I'm not cutting.

When you find the answers, pass them along! Until then, thank you for your friendship and I just hope that you know you are loved. ((((((((((((((((Wendy)))))))))))))))))))))))) And we are all in this together.

Good luck, my friend!
Angela

"Blessed be the cracked, for they let in the light"
-Author Unknown

[Rapunzel]

Angela,

Hey, I'm glad that those reasons worked for you, but it sounds like you still have some guilt about it too. ((((((hugs)))))) Actually, the concept of SI as a sin has been present for me too. There was one time that one of my incidents came to the attention of my bishop, and he called me in to discuss it. What he said was a little contradictory. First he said he wanted to make it clear that he didn't consider it to be a sin, but then he did bring up the "your body is a temple - would you go in the temple and scratch up the walls like that?" argument. That probably is a good reason to stop, but I know that giving in to guilt would most likely just either make it worse or push me into another form of sabotage.

You say that your other reason is fear of inadequacy. That makes sense too, but works the other way on me. I'm more afraid that if I didn't have that method of staying in control, I might 'lose it' and that would be more of an inadequacy.

When my T said that I had to stop, I asked why, and he said because I have to be an example for other people. I said, but they don't have to know about it, and he said that they would know. I don't think they necessarily would, unless I let them know.

I keep listening to that song, "I'm Sorry To Myself." She's right. I would never think of treating anybody else as badly as I treat myself. I have said before that I am my own abuser. It's not just physical either, and the emotional abuse is worse than the physical. I don't know why I deserve to have to treat myself that way. I don't feel sorry for it though. Maybe I just don't really mind. I'm used to it. It's familiar.

Thanks for your answers. They do help, even if you and I both argue against them. Thank-you for your friendship, and for caring about me. Maybe that's the real question. How do you learn to care about yourself? Perhaps the first step can be believing that someone else cares about you. You know that I care about you also, right? That could be the key right there - we are all in this together, and maybe we can help each other out of it too.


Wendy

<font color=orange>"If we are going to insist that people pull themselves up by their own bootstraps, we must ensure that they have boots."</font color=orange>

[Zenobia]

I am just going to ramble a little bit on the last two posts by both Angela and Wendy. So please don't either of you feel left out. And please be aware that I have a headache and good sense would dictate that I should go to bed but I can't because I have to make sure my boy does his homework so I am here typing and every few minutes asking him if he is done with his homework. Sigh.

First of all that Alanis song is awesome. I would listen to it over and over again.

Second, the whole topic of stopping for someone else's sake...uh, I have a major desire to swear here but instead I will say it makes me extremely angry. To have a therapist give that excuse, argh! What about you? To me it feels like it devalues the pain you are going through and puts other people ahead of you...yet again. Maybe that is just me being overly sensitive and responding from my own experience. Sorry about that.

The it being a sin angle seems to work for a lot of things, not just SI. I fear, however the damage of feeling like a sinner may be greater then the sin itself. Sigh.

The whole identity thing brought me back to my earlier visits with me therapist when I would cry out "who am I?" I had no concept of myself as a person. My husband doesn't understand this. When I tried to explain to him how it felt to not be anything inside and just what was on the outside he couldn't wrap his head around it. He kept saying "but that is all anyone is." But he didn't understand that inside me was a dark hole where nothing existed. It just waited to be filled by someone else and when that person left it was empty again waiting to be filled by another person. That empty feeling is like no other feeling in the world. It is like always being hungry and never getting enough of a person to fill it up because no person could possibly fill it up because that hole is filled with other holes and what people tried to give would just leak out. My T helped me plug the holes in the the hole but I had to choose what to fill it with.

I may complain about my parents a lot. They were neglectfull and they totally screwed me up but one thing they did do was they made me believe that I could figure things out on my own. Because of that I was able to have faith that I could fill that hole up with myself if I worked hard enough at it and I also believed that I deserved to be whole in the end. There is a difference between being what we do and just being. Now I can't remember how it is that I learned to just be. I remember crying out over and over again. But who answered? I am the only one who knew what I needed. I am the only one who carried the key within myself. I read a lot. I prayed a lot. I yelled a lot at that which I prayed. Finally I decided that I could be nothing for a little while. I decided that I didn't have to fill the hole. Once I let it go and was nothing and not connected with anybody I found me. I think it was dangerous. I couldn't have done it without my T. He kept me safe though I never told him what I have written here. I don't know why...yeah I do know why, I didn't want to fill up on him either. When I let go and became nothing I just had to had faith that I could come back and would come back. Unfortunately, SI was proof when my faith failed. But I have kept trying and now I have me and not a gaping hole. I still have some leaks but I am working on plugging them up.
Sorry to ramble on so much,
Carrie


<font color=green>But the implicit and usually unconscious bargain we make with ourselves is that, yes, we want to be healed, we want to be made whole, we're willing to go some distance, but we're not willing to question the fundamental assumptions upon which our way of life has been built, both personally and societally.--Bill Plotkin, Soulcraft