Masturbation/porn possibly linked to SAD and depression

that, probably, is the thing I was thinking about. A pre-existing condition.

When you say "studies", you should then follow up by linking to "studies". That means articles from PubMed. You were not linking to studies. You were linking to some kind of a site whose editors are, quite obviously, complete idiots, if they posted a testimonial - and the FIRST one out of a series - from a guy who quit therapy because he was able to skip masturbating for two weeks.

The thing is - you are talking about Dopamine.

Have you ever seen dopamine?

I personally have not.

Nor am I equipped to assess claims with respect to dopamine, because I lack training in biochemistry (but if you link to studies in PubMed, and the articles you quote are peer-reviewed, then I might believe them because I have some faith in the peer review process). If a friend of mine with a PhD in biochemistry explains to me what is happening with dopamine, then I will try to follow, but every random piece of junk on the web that talks about dopamine does not gain credibility with me just because they use a scientific term. Most of the "scientific" claims on the web are junk science - probably 80% are. You cannot trust "junk science".

Since I am not able to assess the claims with respect to dopamine on their scientific basis, given my lack of training, I simply resort to making the assessment of whether the site shows basic common sense (since I am well qualified to assess that). The site does not demonstrate basic common sense based on the testimonials they select. It is true that testimonials might not be actually written by the site editors, but they were selected. The judgment that went into selecting the testimonials shows the true nature of the site's administration.

That is all - very simple.

If you can to continue talking about it, please, use peer-reviewed studies to bolster your claims. Even peer reviewed studies have problems with them, though, due to methodological difficulties. growlithing alluded to a couple of issues that makes such studies dubious, from the methodology standpoint; I am sure there are dozens more issues that are challenging.

So, not so straightforward as "porn=cocaine".

the ordinary course of living affects dopamine as well

Look, I read this on Wikipedia:

The brain includes several distinct dopamine systems, one of which plays a major role in reward-motivated behavior. Every type of reward that has been studied increases the level of dopamine in the brain, and a variety of addictive drugs, including stimulants such as cocaine, amphetamine, and methamphetamine, act by amplifying the effects of dopamine. Other brain dopamine systems are involved in motor control and in controlling the release of several important hormones.
Several important diseases of the nervous system are associated with dysfunctions of the dopamine system. Parkinson's disease, a degenerative condition causing tremor and motor impairment, is caused by loss of dopamine-secreting neurons in the midbrain area called the substantia nigra. There is evidence that schizophrenia involves altered levels of dopamine activity, and the antipsychotic drugs that are frequently used to treat it have a primary effect of attenuating dopamine activity. Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and restless legs syndrome (RLS) are also believed to be associated with decreased dopamine activity.

This is plentiful for me - I now realize that dopamine is a hugely complex thing and that I am out of my depth for sure (as I suspected anyway).

Ideally, the sources - articles from PubMed and not even articles on psychology today - are best to see how the studies were actually done. Every layer of distortion (a journalist reporting on a study may distort it by interpreting it incorrectly) makes it harder to see what the studies actually delivered. So, ideally, we should see PubMed links.

That's not true. The people that wrote the propaganda sites you read disagree with me. You have to remember that a mass majority of all men watch or have watched porn. We aren't talking about 60% or 70% of all men, we are talking upwards of 90%. In the US, about 7% of the population have depression and nearly 20% has some sort of anxiety. And that those numbers include women. If porn were to cause depression, that numbers would be much much higher to match that statistic because more people would be experiencing the depressive effects of porn.

Oh. That is interesting.

So they recommend to banish all of those - the whole trifecta?

So, masturbating to endogenous fantasies and orgasming is bad BY ITSELF? Without porn? that is interesting... if so, what is the culprit implicated in depression&anxiety - if not graphic materials, then what? endogenous fantasies are bad? how sad... and bizarre.

Like I said above, the mass majority of all men look at porn. The mass majority of men are not desensitized to real sex because of porn. If a man were desensitized to sex, that would probably be because he's jerking it too hard, too fast, and too frequently. He got used to the feel of his and and can only get off to that. Same thing for a woman using a vibrator. That's not porn's fault, that's his fault for the way he used it. And it's not permanent.

Also, saying that too much dopamine causes depression is just not biologically accurate. Too much dopamine causes schizophrenia and psychosis. So if you're jerking it until you start hearing voices, then yeah you probably have a problem.

Do you actually have any evidence other then your opinion? No you don't. I'll take the guys who study brain activity over you. The interesting things is, just less then a few months ago I'd have agreed with you.

Too low dopamine is also linked to social anxiety and depression.

No you don't know what you're on about. Some men have become addicted after they were 40-50 years old. The assumption that all porn is fake breasted women is short sighted. The sexual kinks you can find with pornography, can often be things many women wouldn't do.

No. but for a few months banish masturbation to gain erections without porn for porn ED.

If porn doesn't have any bad side affects for some people, then can go ahead and continue watching it. Some people have no problem with food, but some do have addiction problems. Can a person be addicted to porn - yes they can. Are some fine - yes some are. I tried to post a news link on the affects of porn on kids - I was met with constant praises for porn and eventually had the thread closed.

It may have advantages and I don't get why most people can't understand it might be bad for some who use it long term. What about the men who suffer with not being able to find a partner - do they feel fulfilled after no skin to skin contact. Skin to skin contact increases Oxytocin - the feel good hormone. What about the wife who's lost intimacy because her husband finds porn more enticing. Desensitization is a real possibility for some.

Lycanthrope is simply providing some info that could happen to some. Just because I don't have a addiction to food, doesn't discount those who do.

As I said, I was basing my opinion on the garden variety mainstream porn, which accounts for a big chunk of usage. You are talking about things that are long tail. I was talking about the thick of the bell curve.

To the extent that there are things that many women would not do - sure, but so what? So what?

Back a few years ago I saw that little porn preview blurb. A woman who was very skinny, with very very small breasts, very narrow hips, a waxed pubic area, and an energetic, uplifting voice of a corporate organizer announced that at a certain time she would be demonstrating taking in two penises. And invited everybody to stay tuned. I did not stay tuned because I was not interested in seeing that and also was very busy (I was seeing that stuff incidentally while involved in doing filtering software work, so there was a lot of stuff coming through me that I did not pay attention to, but the high energy of this woman's call for attention was something I did pay attention to). Of course, to the extent that she was unusually narrow in the hip area (basically, of prepubescent dimensions), the idea that she would take in two penises indeed demonstrated that she had special abilities. OK, so as a curiosity, it might warrant attention. Maybe for some men it is arousing, sure, why not. Can I do that? God forbid I would never even consider doing something like this for fear of being torn, bleeding, being exposed to infections, and general disinclination towards using my body for something so weird and extreme. God forbid. But if somebody wants to watch it - here, there is professional porn videos that show it, so they can watch it. But - I am not competing with this. The idea that porn threatens real women presupposes that real women are somehow called upon to enter into competition with porn actresses. But why would they? I acknowledge that the skinny blonde lady with an energizing, uplifting tone of voice has special abilities I do not have - neither would I risk the integrity of my vagina to take in two penises, nor do I have this kind of an energizing tone of voice (or else I would have been a CEO of some company by now... not a Fortune 500, no, but some medium range company...100-500 employees, I would say...). So I am not entering into any competitions - my hat's off to her for her unusual abilities and that is it.

so the guys you are talking about cannot become erect without porn?

how pathetic... omg...

Not true - the comment is:

The guy who wrote this gem of a testimonial was not dumb - he was just being sloppy. He rushed and did not think of how to phrase his thought correctly. But he was not being dumb. Being sloppy is not a crime. It is simply human.

But the editors who posted it...

...right.

So if they cannot catch a flagrant issue such as this, how would I trust them in interpreting research findings, especially in a field that suffers from a can of worms in terms of methodological challenges? How would I trust them?

Lycanthrope - you keep talking about the guys who study our brains. So - medical researchers, right? Well, then let us read their peer reviewed publications. You keep referring to them, but we still have not read their work. Not somebody's interpretation of their work, but the work itself. PubMed provides abstracts for most articles, and, free pdf's for many though by far not all articles.

I forgot to add something else about desensitization. When it 1st starts, its on a very small scale...... I bet anyone who watches porn rarely goes back to the same video that started it all. Why ...because it doesn't excite them anymore. Its human nature to want more and up the ante. They find themselves looking for more and more stimulus......it takes longer and longer to find one that will do it for them.

For a man who's using it once in a while, it probably won't interfere with his excitement for his partner. But for the couple who's having challenges and perhaps an average sex life....naturally a Cirque De Soleil video can't compete with average sex with his partner. Then when he does try having sex, it takes longer and longer to climax and usually has to finish with a hand job. Most videos don't really show what a woman wants and its not having it all over her hair and face.....contrary to how most end.

Yes I do. I have already sited a few credible sources earlier in this thread.

Have some more:

The abstract of this book: Self-Perceived Effects of Pornography Consumption - Springer
An article on that book that details more on the study: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...or-detrimental

Another article:
All men watch porn, and it is not bad for them - Health News - Health & Families - The Independent

Yet another article:
New research suggests porn is overly demonized | Health Tech - CNET News

Article on the health benefits of masturbation:
5 Health Benefits of Masturbation | Men's Health News

The link to the site where I got my statistics on mental health frequency:
NIMH · The Numbers Count: Mental Disorders in America

Don't belittle me by assuming that I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm not someone who studies brains, but I am linking you to actual studies conducted by people who do and you're dismissing them by saying that everything I'm saying has no weight. The good thing about this stuff is that it's true regardless of what you want to believe or not. Alcohol does not cause alcoholism, food does not cause obesity, video games do not cause video game addiction, and porn does not cause depression. If you want to live your life without porn and mastubation then go ahead. I don't care what healthy things you choose to deprive yourself of. But don't go around trying to force people to follow your life style by saying that porn is inherently wrong.

Which shows how clueless you are. Because porn ED is real.

Well I'm not trying to force you or anyone else to do anything. Just posting info.

Again, porn does not cause this. This is the fault of the person who is abusing the porn. Absolutely everything in life can be abused and misused
regardless of how healthy it is. Some people can't drink at all because it becomes a problem for them. Same thing with porn. If you can't handle watching porn a healthy amount, then don't. But just because you can't that doesn't mean there is anything inherently wrong or unhealthy about porn.

Yes it does, that's why it's called porn ED. You don't know what you're on about.

Now that's a bit excessive. Not many things are universally and inherently "bad." Like Growlithing said, just because porn certainly might be bad for some people doesn't meant it'll have a damaging effect on everyone.

Never said that. I said porn ED is caused by porn, never said everybody who watched porn would get it.

Here's a link that explains it simply:

Can You Trust Your Johnson? | Your Brain On Porn

Porn ED is caused by too much porn. It is something men can normally reverse by stopping consuming porn for 4-8 weeks. It's not like sitting down and watching one porno will destroy your ability to get an erection without porn and it is not like watching one or two videos will make you physically addicted to porn. It's just like alcoholism. Drinking one or two shots of vodka and/or occasionally getting drunk does not make you an alcoholic. What makes you an alcoholic is continued excessive exposure that you choose to do. It's not like alcohol is this evil thing that will suck you into its trap. You become an alcoholic when you are self medicating your problems. It's the exact same thing for porn related ED.