[Perna]

What if "Loser" were a diagnosis? What is the difference between a parent or peer or someone else calling one a Loser, Dummy, Stupid, Dirty-old-black-hearted-thing (my stepmother's favorite :-) and a person who doesn't know you that well; a doctor, social worker, teacher, peer, therapist pronouncing you are Borderline, Depressed (and you take the meds they prescribe but they don't seem to work), have ADD/ADHD, or some other mental illness?

Actually, there isn't a whole lot of difference; in both cases it is someone else telling you what they see in you from where they are sitting. But it's not you or your feelings or thoughts and it's just a diagnosis, not an actual, helpful "thing". A diagnosis just tells you what the other person sees/thinks and how they are going to relate to you but it doesn't really tell you much about yourself or anything at all about what you see, think, or feel.

I like doctors and teachers and other professionals because they've worked hard and gone through a lot of training to get to do what they do. Even parents have lived 25+ years or so and have that much more experience and more resources than we do as children so deserve enough respect that we listen to what they have to say. BUT, if anyone, professional or parent says something we don't want to hear, it behooves us to check it out ourselves.

My stepmother told me I was "Stupid" when I made the mistake of mixing the Good Seasons salad dressing wrong: http://brands.kraftfoods.com/goodseasons/

It seems you were supposed to put in the vinegar and then the water or vice versa and I did the opposite. Huge mistake in the larger scheme of things, wouldn't you say? :-) Definitely proves I'm lacking in intelligence and will never succeed in life! :-) I was 22 when she called me that, still living at home (but not for long, it was the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back and made me decide to move out on my own).

Now, that wasn't the first time my stepmother had called me names. She'd been doing it almost since she'd met me 18 years earlier. I was fortunate because I'm not stupid and I have always known that, deep inside. But, it doesn't help if someone you love/want to love you keeps telling you otherwise and no one but your deep insides remind you you are really quite bright and clever! It helps that my father was smart and I thought/knew that and that all three of my brothers were smart and I thought/saw/experienced/knew that. It also helped that my stepmother and stepsister weren't quite as book-smart as my father and brothers and I, and I observed that. "Fortunately" I didn't learn until much later that "smart" and "stupid" are very relative, squishy terms without exact meaning and don't mean the same thing to different people or in different situations.

What all this has to do with self-esteem is that I've learned that it's called SELF-esteem for a reason. We get to decide, from our own real experience and not from what others see/tell us, just how special and wonderful we are and what we can learn and do and what gifts we've inherited (through my genealogy work I can see I inherited my "honesty" from my great grandfather!). Yes we get others, often well-meaning but thoughtless people telling us negative things that they think about or see in us but what other people say is ALWAYS more abut the other person than about ourselves. Think about it; even doctors are telling you, diagnosing your illness and putting it in that framework because they're doctors and that's what they've learned? What if they'd learned something different; what if we all called things by different words so "winner" meant you were healthy and "loser" meant other people and/or you yourself thought/felt you were ill?

A lot of people DO say/mean different things by what they say than we take them to mean ourselves. A lot of people with a diagnosis of "Borderline Personality Disorder" immediately decide they are "losers" and that no therapist will work with them or like them and that they are considered bottom-feeding trash fish :-) I remember when I worked at the Pentagon for the Navy and we had the usual work priority trays only we labeled the three-tier ones, "Admirals and Generals" (meant highest priority) and the bottom tier which we only did when there was extra time was jokingly labeled "Ensigns and whale ***** :-) Couldn't get any worse. But think about if you're an "Ensign". You've gone through the Naval Academy or other college for 4 years or have a whole lot of important experience so they want you to be in charge instead of just a worker. You are definitely not a loser! But, given the hierarchy (which people created for their own purposes) you can be seen by others both ways. Which are "you" though? How do you think of yourself if you're an Ensign?

Learning about and developing self-esteem is like being an Ensign and working one's way up toward Admiral. One is "actually" pretty wonderful even when others think you are down there with the whale shite but it's up to you to work that out for yourself and know that to be true and keep working until what you see and know to be true LOOKS true to other people.

If you frown a lot, people are going to ask you "why are you sad?" because frowns mean "sadness" to most people. I remember when I was asked why I was sad or told to smile a couple times in one week and I didn't take it badly, I took it as information that I was showing that something wasn't going well with me. I hadn't realize that yet! I was glad I was told to "smile" one time too many so I had external verification that I should get help and start therapy again, quick!

And my stepmother calling me stupid? That was thoughtless of her. She wasn't too introspective and believed "actions" meant more than words. In a sense she was right but there has to be a balance. She didn't act any more thoughtfully than she spoke toward me :-) She had her ideas of how things should be done and that's how everyone should do them. She did not see individuals because she was afraid and needed control of situations, they had to be black and white.

I am fortunate that my stepmother was the way she was and that she and I had major issues relating to one another. Without her issues, I probably would not have gone to therapy or wouldn't have gone so soon, maybe not have worked so deeply that I grew up to become the woman I am now whom I love very much :-)

[pegasus]

Thank you for sharing ((((((( Perna ))))))))

It's odd, someone the other day called me a 'snap dragon' they meant this as an insult. That hurt at the time but I thought about it some more and realized that a 'snap dragon' is also a flower. A very beautiful flower actually!

[Window]

When others say or do anything, try and remember it is always subjectively about them, not you.

Very insightful OP, I enjoyed your thoughts. You have great wisdoms due to introspection of self, and observation of others. You're right also, that our self esteem is based on how we have been responded to throughout our lives. I dislike believing my story, but any other story feels like someone elses. It never feels true to have positive self thoughts, despite my wish to.

Good that you got therapy to help you see those around you disply their dysfunction. Its no fun being treated with disrespect by those you love.

As far as BPD diagnosis goes, I have a loved one with this diagnosis and I have to say, he is one of the most intelligent, sensitive, introspective beautiful souls I have ever had the priveledge of knowing. He just needs lots of reassurance that he is conditionally loved no matter what, despite the little "tests" he used to do. Boundaries are set in place for setting limits, and if they are pushed then I ask questions and somehow get intuitive knowledge about what he cannot express. Its usually pain based or out of boredom etc. (Sorry, I got side tracked). I just wanted to express that a BPD diagnosis is ok, nothing to consider to be unworthy of unconditional love. It sounds like you have found that great place already though, so that is good.

[*freak*]

Perna, your post just made my day, so thanks for that

I don't have much to add, you said it all; I just wanted to let you know I really enjoyed your thoughts. Your step mother was so so wrong in calling you stupid

[Perna]

Even though I have come, over the years, to regard my stepmother differently, with pluses as well as differences, I still get a tiny spark of enjoyment by realizing that she's dead but I'm not yet :-) My therapist said my life would change in a major way when my stepmother died and, even having been told, I was surprised when it did. The freedom and "comfort" of being on my "own" and not having to take her views into consideration (and still not realizing how much I had) is so great. I don't have to spent so much of my energy "resisting" but can be more positive and forward moving instead.

[sharon123]

Usually a verbal abuser feels that way (what they are saying to you) about THEMSELVES....it is called projection. Unfortunately, as children, we do not have that insight,and spend a lot of adult time....trying to erase those old tapes (lies.)

[BrokenNBeautiful]

Loser, Dummy, Stupid, Dirty-old-black-hearted-thing

therapist pronouncing you are Borderline


A lot of people with a diagnosis of "Borderline Personality Disorder" immediately decide they are "losers" and that no therapist will work with them or like them and that they are considered bottom-feeding trash fish :-)

Hi, it's Billi. I was reading thru this forum today and came across your thread, Perna. i really appreciate this. I was diagnosed as Borderline 8 years ago and told that not too many therapists can deal with it. It really breaks my heart because borderlines have abandonment issues and serious self-esteem issues and it does NOT help that even professionals cannot be on their side or help them!

As you know, my last t really broke my heart---she claimed she treated borderlines and then dumped me.

Funny, thank goodness now I am attempting to know that it's about her, not me.

Okay, I have a lot to work on.

But no one has a right to treat me badly.

We all deserve help.

We all deserve love.

ty for sharing this!

We all get to decide who we are, not someone else!

Billi