[wisewoman]

As a parent I think I get it. I would never degrade or hummiliate my kids intentionally but I did try a soanking a few times, You see I am pushed back into an age old question about, was it my fault? Did it really happen? Am I a bad girl? Am I unlovable? Am I dirty? It took me ages to learn to say the words about what had happened and now I have my entire world thrown into doubt because i can't undestand spanking a child vs. torturing them.

[SweetSunshine]

Wisewoman~
One is done out of love~
One is done to hurt the child.
The parent has to be the wiser to know the difference before they touch the child. I am sorry you went thru all this. I hope you find some peace in your heart someday. Luv ya~

Hugz~
Bethy

[Rapunzel]

Yeah, I know what you mean. It's too easy for me to get irritable and frustrated with my kids, and not feel very in-control. I've gone a little farther with discipline sometimes than I think I should have, and then feel really bad about it. Sometimes I resorted to hurting myself in order to keep myself from getting out of control. I learned certain situations where I just needed to back out and let hubby handle it instead - like cleaning their rooms - I got too mad and could not stay in there. I hate it when I yell at them, and it's even worse when they pick it up and are yelling at each other.

While I wouldn't say that spanking in and of itself is abuse, there are better ways to discipline, which we aren't learning if we resort to spanking. I also feel that anyone with an abuse history or probably any mental illnesses, particularly trauma-related, probably should not use spanking because of the risk of taking it too far.

Still, we had to learn how to discipline and what works for us and what doesn't. Nobody is a perfect parent, and maybe we think we should have learned from our parents' mistakes, but it doesn't work that way. If you had less than ideal role models, how could you possibly not make some mistakes yourself? You will not find any children anywhere whose parents never made mistakes with them. Your children are blessed with a mother who loves them very much, enough to worry about whether she has done the best she could. If you care enough to ask the questions about whether you are a good parent, and you're willing to face the possibility that maybe you have room for improvement, that tells me that you are a good mother. You care, and you do the best that you can, and you want to do better. You're a good mom, and a good girl and a good person and you are loveable. I know you - you have gone above and beyond the call of duty to be a good mother to your children. I know that you love them. You are wonderful.

[CompGeek]

Spanking is kind of a personal opinon type thing I think. I don't have any children so i can't really say for sure if I would spank a child however it is i guess a form of phsyical abuse. I have read in one of my text books that punishments are only affective if they are administered right after the undesireable behavior was preformed. and then explaining to the child what alternate course of action they should have taken because if they do something wrong and are never told what to do instead then they will most likely do something other than the action which the receieved the punishment for the next time the situation presents itself however the alteranate action may also be deemed incorrect by society.

[wisewoman]

Thank you Rap. You got the essense of what I was saying perfectly.

[wisewoman]

Hey Bethy and all, ever notice that I dont use the popular computer words? They don't feel like my words but here goes. I was triggered by posts on here relating to this subject and suddenly I was a child again wondering if I deserved the torture. I truly understand kids getting frustrated and angry with their parents. I have experienced that with my own kids. But it really scared me, the posts, the fact that kids can hate parents even if they are not bad. I am dealing with this on a lot of levels and I do not agree with Ozzie, this is a PTSD issue for me. Maybe not all, but for me.

[eskielover]

I have thought about this issue quite a bit as I applied it to my daughter (who is now 27) & of course to my animals (dogs & horses). From my experiences, I have found that appropriate methods of discipline must be applied to "training" with love, respect, & consistancy no matter who or what is being trained.

The bottom line is that one needs to use the appropriate punishment for the one being trained that will be effective & produce the wanted outcome. IT IS NEVER ACCEPTABLE TO ABUSE!!!!!! Any hitting (spanking or slapping) that causes an injury in my opinion is considered to be abuse & is completely unacceptable. You have to be in control of yourself. Punishment done out of anger or frustration & not out of love, concern, & respect is inappropriate, leading to lack of respect in return. Beating & spanking are two different things.....beating will cause injury & is "out of control" .

I found that when I spanked my daughter even with an explaination, it had no effect. It was my responsibility to my daughter to find & determine the appropriate means of punishment that worked to train her & provide the guidance she needed for understanding the behaviors that were acceptable to our home & society. The choice of punishments depends on what works best be it time outs, grounding, taking away a priviledge, taking away a source of enjoyment, or spanking (if it works). It is important also for them to understand that the only fault is that the choice of behavior was inappropriate. They are not a bad person but the behavior was what was bad. They are not unloved or hated but the behavior was what was not ok.

Punishment without learning is useless. It is all a training process so that the one punished comes away from a punishment learning the appropriate, acceptable behavior. To acheive this, it is important (like CompGeek pointed out) that the punishment is done immediately after the undesireable behavior occurs with an explaination to the child about why & what better choice of action should have been taken & having them realize what the problem actually was.

I think it is important for us to not be worried that we are hated for doing what is right. It seems to be human nature to have an initial sense of resenting being told you have chosen a wrong behavior & the fact that you got caught (not true from animals). It is important for us to have the confidence that we are taking the necessary action that will provide guidance into socially acceptable behaviors.

The bottom line of discipline is that we love & respect & want only the best for who you are training. With that understanding, they will return respect for you & want to please you with appropriate behavior in the future. It is a time consuming process & new things will come up continually but as long as there is love, discipline will be successful & will never turn into abuse. I know this is ideal & we are not perfect & make mistakes, but if we strive to keep love as our priority in the discipline we will not be abusive.

Providing appropriate discipline is tough & takes much self control of our own. We are only human too even if we may have had a good example to learn from as a child ourselves. Being a parent is a tough job & some people just aren't cut out for it even though they have children. No one is perfect & we are bound to make mistakes that we must learn from too. The most important thing to focus on is love & respect for our children & those we train.

Debbie