[peaches100]

*** WARNING: This is very long and might be triggering***

I’m having trouble trying to understand if my parents were abusive or neglectful, or if the problem was just that they didn’t know how to parent me and I was a difficult (over-sensitive) child. My t has said I need to accept my life experiences (the things that happened, or didn’t happen). But I guess part of my inability to accept and move on is that I don’t know whose fault it was that I was such an unhappy child and turned out to be such a troubled adult.
My parents always provided food, shelter, and clothing for my sister and I. They were never physically abusive. We had a decent house in a decent neighborhood. We were permitted to have friends and toys.
My dad was a pretty negative person, and he was irritable a lot of the time. I got yelled at a lot for doing things wrong. He wasn’t overtly mean, but he was never affectionate. He wasn’t one to hug us or joke with us or tickle us or carry us on his shoulders. He was pretty much a loner who didn’t seem to enjoy being a dad. I always felt like my being around was just annoying to him. The only time he seemed to want to talk to me very much was after having several drinks. Then, he would start odd conversations with me, arguing, contradicting, and/or making fun of me until I got upset, and then he’d laugh about it. Once, when I left the room crying, he shouted out at me “Go ahead, little crybaby, go cry in your room.” My mom was always there when my dad would this to me. It happened often when he’d been drinking. My mom usually stayed quiet and didn’t try to stop my dad from doing this. I’ve never understood why she didn’t help me. Often, I’d end up in my room, so upset and confused, wondering why my dad was picking on me. No one would try to soothe me or explain anything. If I approached my mom about it, she’d just minimize it. After these episodes, the next day, everybody would pretend like nothing ever happened.
My mom was an upbeat person who rarely ever got mad and never yelled. She was a very talented person who had (and still has) a lot of talents. But she was never the nurturing type. When 1 was 11 months old and my sister was 2 years old, my mom went back to work. My aunt said she was “bored” at home. During the years I was growing up, my mom worked full-time and her job was very important to her. It was her main focus. She took care of my sister and I, as far as taking us to get school clothes and all the primary things that need to be done for kids. But she never seemed to notice when we were emotionally hurting and would not try to help us. Her main focus was always on herself and her achievements. Even now, as a retired couple, she said she often gets bored socializing with other retirees because they want to talk about her children and grandchildren, but she said she wants to talk about her job and how important it was to her.
My parents were very young when they had us (19 and 20), and neither one of us were planned. I had a lot of separations from my mom, starting when I was 6 weeks old and got pneumonia and had to be hospitalized. I don’t recall if having my mom go to work at 11 months was traumatizing or not. But my mom took several business trips when my sister and I were in grade school, and I recall these as being very traumatic for us. My mom would usually “drop the bomb” that she was leaving at the last minute, so it always came as an unpleasant shock. My sister and I would always cry, and a week seemed like so long to go without my mom being there. Being the sensitive worry wart I was as a kid, I always imagined my mom’s plane crashing and her never coming home.
When we were young, my parents also went out a lot at night. Many times, they’d go out drinking after work instead of coming home, and I’d be worried. After they were about 1 hour late, my mom would call and tell me that they’d stopped for drinks and would be home in about 1 hour. I would beg her to come home soon. Usually, it would be another 2 hours or more before they got home. Sometimes it was dark. I can remember looking out the window into the darkness, fearing that they’d gotten into a car accident and were laying dead somewhere. When they finally got home, I would feel initially relieved, but then very angry, but I don’t know if I ever said anything. I think I just stuffed it. This happened a lot.
When I was in 3rd/4th grade, I started going around the neighborhood, knocking on doors, trying to find adults to talk to me. I didn’t realize it at the time, but I think I must have been looking for parental substitutes or something. This brought me into contact with a pedophile who lived on the corner. I visited him many times alone and he molested me. One night when I didn’t come home after dark, my parents went outside and starting calling my name. I was at my neighbor’s house at the time, and when I ran outside, they saw me coming from his home. I confessed to them then that he had touched me inappropriately, but because of my horribly guilty feelings, I begged them not to confront him. They said, “Well, just don’t go over there anymore.” Nothing more was ever said about it.
Around this same time, I started developing a phobia about throwing up (which I still have today). Every night, I was afraid to go to sleep, for fear I would get sick in the night and throw up. I would be so afraid. Night after night this would happen. My mom would lay newspapers on the floor between my room and the bathroom in case I got sick, but I never did. I’m not sure, but I think something happened with the pedophile that made me almost puke, so that may be why I started having the phobia about throwing up.
Another thing I recall is my sister having nightmares. She’d wake up in the middle of the night scared and crying. I remember how frightening this was for me, because I didn’t understand what was happening. I recall how my sister would sit up in bed, crying, and her eyes would be glazed over because she wasn’t really awake. I would get scared and cry too. I remember she had to have genital warts removed when she was about 8 or 9. I never put 2+2 together at the time. But later, as an adult, when she told me she had HPV and that she’d broken down hysterically crying during a routine PAP, I knew she’d been molested as a child too. That probably explains the nightmares. I have a dim memory of something bad happening to my sister, and me telling my mom about it. And then my mom telling me that it never happened, that I should forget about it, that it was just a dream I had. That particular memory is hugely upsetting to me emotionally, but it isn’t clear to me. The part I remember is hearing something bad happening to her, and being frozen and unable to do anything to help. I feel tons of guilt today, not knowing exactly what happened, and feeling that it was somehow my fault. Did I take my sister to visit the pedophile, and she got abused too? Or was it someone else who did it? I am haunted by the fuzzy memories I have.

I was uprooted a lot as a kid because we moved a lot. Between the ages of 0-18, we moved 10 times and I went to 8 different schools. One move was particularly traumatic for me because I had to leave both my best friend and my cat behind. I remember that day, crying and feeling heartbroken as we pulled out of the driveway and drove away. I couldn’t seem to stop crying until my dad told me from the front seat, “Cut that *^%*)& out or I’ll give you something to cry about.” I remember feeling a ripping pain go through my heart and thinking, My dad must hate me. Why does he hate me so much. I was afraid to cry after he yelled at me.
I remember on one of our moves also, that I had been very attached to my 4th grade teacher, and since I was not going to see her ever again, I wanted to go tell her goodbye. My parents wouldn’t let me go tell her goodbye, saying it wasn’t necessary. That broke my heart.
My dad told my husband once that he and my mom didn’t give us much guidance and direction as kids – they just let us go our own way and figure things out for ourselves. I think that is how my excessive worrying started. I remember always feeling anxious, worried, guilty, and confused as a child, but with no help to understand how to deal with things. When I was a teenager, I got involved with drinking and partying behavior. My folks let me go out at night as a teen and stay out until midnight or 1 am. The would usually ask me where I was going, but they’d never follow up on it. Often, I’d go out on dates with boys several times before my parents would even ask to meet them. Also, my folks never stayed up to make sure I got home OK. I’d let myself into a dark house and go to bed.
One thing I remember about living at home was that I could never seem to do anything right. My dad would get mad at me for not cleaning my gerbil cage enough or turning up the heat and not turning it back down, or when I dusted, for not rubbing it in good enough – or when I vacuumed and raked the carpet, for not raking it well enough. I remember my dad being annoyed with me when I got school pictures taken because they always looked frozen and unnatural (I was so nervous having my picture taken.) When he drank and we got into those weird conversations, he would mind read. He would tell me that I was thinking “X” or “Y,” which wasn’t true. I would be thinking something totally different. This would frustrate me, but when I’d try to explain what I WAS thinking, he would interrupt me and talk over me. He often laughed at me when I told him my feelings and thoughts, or told me why they were wrong.
When I was 17, I got into a car accident on the way home from a club after I’d been drinking. When my parents picked me up at the hospital, they asked if I was OK and seemed concerned. But once we got into the car, my dad yelled at me all the way home, telling me how stupid and irresponsible and untrustworthy I was. I probably deserved that, but I remember how traumatizing the whole experience was. After that, I developed a phobia of driving on the highway, which I still have today.
I got married at 18 and moved out. I soon became religious and joined a religion that my dad was very against. Since then, there has been a lot of emotional distance between us, even more than before. My parents try not to talk about my religion, but I know they disapprove. My dad once told me that I was brainwashed and my religion was like the Branch Davidians. He also hates my husband and blames him for my choosing this religion, since it was the one my husband was raised in. Once, while we were visiting my parents on vacation, my dad got drunk and tried to beat my husband up. We had to leave because of it. My dad had never acted violent before, and it had shocked me. All the way home, I remember shaking and feeling in shock. Three days later, my mom called and talked about superficial stuff, as though nothing had ever happened. She didn’t even mention it.
When I was in my mid-30’s, I was struck with a severe clinical depression. Since then, I’ve struggled with my mental and emotional health. The whole time, my family has completely ignored my suffering. Even though I was hospitalized once for 4 days for suicidal thinking, my parents and sister have never even brought it up. During the worst of my depression, I lost 26 pounds and was clinically anorexic. When I would see my parents, they would ignore it. My mom would be her always bubbly self and talk about all the interesting projects and clubs she was involved in. The only reference my dad would make to my depression was to tell me I looked too skinny. I’ve always had to put on a happy face when they come to visit and act like life’s a ball because that’s what they expect.

Over the past years, I’ve tried 2 or 3 times to talk to them about some of the things that happened to me as a child, and why they were traumatic for me. But my mom claims “I can’t think of anything that happened to you as a kid that would cause you problems today.” When I told her once how I used to cry when she went on her business trips, she replied, “Well, you never seemed interested in talking to me or being with me when I was home, I figured it didn’t matter.” That just left me stunned. What I remember is wanting my mom there, and her not being there. . .always being gone, either at work, at bars, or on trips. I even remember as a grade school child, missing my mom and wanting to call her repeatedly at work. I got in trouble for this and was told if I called her more than once, I would be spanked.
Since being in therapy, I think I’ve discovered that my separations from my mom were so utterly painful for me, I had to disconnect from her. I guess it’s the disconnection that my mom remembers. But she doesn’t see how her not being there caused the pain that forced me to disconnect. My mom’s comment to me about not paying more attention to her as a child makes me think that my parents blame me to this day for disconnecting. It’s true that by the time I was 10-12, my friends became the most important thing in my life, and given the choice, I always chose to be with them rather than my parents. My parents let me make that choice, but I think they’ve always resented me for it. My sister was the good child who always stayed home with them.
I very much feel like I’ve always been the black sheep of my family. I always try to make time for them when they come to town, I treat them respectfully, and never disparage them or speak harshly or blame them for anything. I try to be as nice as possible. But I don’t feel close to them. I feel like they don’t really know me inside, or care to know me. I feel like I have to put on a mask for them and be what they want me to be, because they don’t accept me for who I am. When I’m with them, my dad mostly ignores me totally. My mom interacts with me. We go shopping and do fun things. But my mom mostly talks about herself and her own life all the time. My sister and I put her first, and their whole visit revolves around what my mom wants to do. Neither my mom or dad ask me things about my life, or ask my opinion about anything. I feel like I am just ***there*** taking up space. I think my mom likes being with my sister and I because she’s the center of attention. But I always feel a deep disapproving distance with my dad, as though it is painful for him to even be in the same room with me.
Another thing that has hurt me is that one day, I stumbled onto a tax return of my parents, where they had “single” checked instead of “married.” I thought it was a mistake and brought it up. Then my mom told me they’d gotten divorced awhile back for tax reasons. I was shocked and wondered why they hadn’t told me before? My mom said “We didn’t think it was any of your business.” I guess it’s not, but it just seems weird that my own parents wouldn’t tell me something like this. When I mentioned it to my sister, she already knew about it. They had told her.
Well, I know I haven’t told the whole story of my childhood. I know there were good times, and like I said, there was no physical abuse and I had food, shelter, clothing, and opportunities and friends. I really worry that maybe things weren’t so bad – maybe I am just too sensitive. Maybe there is something wrong with ME that I have so many issues/problems/depression/anxiety today. Like I mentioned, my mom says she can’t think of anything from my childhood that would cause my problems today. So I feel guilty for the pain I carry, thinking that it’s not justified.
What do you think reading all of this? Are these things minor events that I should have been able to just let roll off my back? Am I making too big of a deal of it? I have so much pain inside, and I just don’t know why.

[peaches100]

I feel bad for what i said. I didn't mention the good times, they were some. For the most part, our house was quiet. Both my parents worked full-time. They kept our property well maintained. My dad was never a "falling down" drunk. Although i am sure is was and is an alcoholic.

The thing is. . .my sister thinks my parents are great. . .at least my mom. When i hear my parents are coming to town for a visit, my heart drops. I feel so guilty about it, like i should feel happy to see them. Not only is my sister happy to see them, but she literally begs my mom to come visit more and more often. when they visit, they stay at her house. She told me once, "I wish they could be out here all the time."

This makes me wonder what in the world is wrong with me that i am so stuck on the bad things that happened. How come my sister is so much closer to them and happier in a relationship with them? Sometimes i feel crazy for having the problems i do, especialy when my whole family acts like everything is great and always was. It makes me question my own mind. It's an awful feeling.

There's always a push-pull inside me between discounting my experiences and feeling good about my parents -- versus accepting my pain as valid and thinking maybe my parents caused some of this. I don't know HOW i should feel. I do love my parents. I just feel distant and hurt inside.

[Perna]

Originally Posted by peaches100

My t has said I need to accept my life experiences (the things that happened, or didn’t happen). But I guess part of my inability to accept and move on is that I don’t know whose fault it was

Acceptance isn't about fault. The past happened, and it wasn't very good. My mother died when I was three, whose "fault" is that? My T pointed out that she probably didn't want to die, didn't want to leave 4 children behind?

Our parents might not have been great parents, they might not have been great parents to just us, we might not have been very "bright" children, but that is all over now. We are grown up, willy nilly, with good and bad aspects to our personalities and various things we know/don't know. We need to assess what we have now and what we want for our future.

One of the reasons it is hard to figure things out is because we get to decide what the problem is and where to draw any lines and thus, being personal, they keep shifting on us. We can decide an action on our parents part was "their fault" and influenced us or we can decide their action was what "any" parent might do and our reaction was "our fault". But there's no benchmark of what was right/wrong. All there is in our world is us. What we do, think, and feel is what we do, think and feel! We can only control what we do, what we think and feel are both there to help us learn and grow. We can learn to think in a particular way, decide to think in whatever way we think will help us. We can think, "my parents didn't love me" and go with that or we can think, "my parents did the best they could" and go with that. When we feel hurt by something we can look at the "something" or we can look at ourselves, our hurt, and try to figure out how to help ourself with it. We have no control whatsoever on the "something" but we can look at and understand ourselves better whenever/wherever we wish.

What do you wish you had in your life today? More friends, more love, less anxiety, less depression, etc.? Pick something and figure out how to get it into your life. Make it a "goal" and figure out baby steps to accomplish it.

Not being able to say goodbye to your 4th grade teacher was very sad! I wasn't allowed to take flute lessons in 6th grade (I did well on a music test and was recommended to a special program) and, when I was in my 30's decided to give myself the gift of private clarinet lessons! It isn't/wasn't about the 4th grade teacher, it was about you.

You were very sad being separated from your teacher and not saying goodbye. Do you make sure you say goodbye well now to others/things that are important to you but which it is time to give up/let go of? Do you help those around you say goodbye well when they need that opportunity? What did you learn about yourself from wanting to say goodbye and not having the opportunity?

There's always multiple "sides" to every experience and that experience can be "taken" and felt about multiple ways. Thank you for telling your story, now I have additional reminders (your stories) to help me with my life problems. When I don't have the opportunity to say goodbye well I'll remember you and your 4th grade teacher and not feel so alone!

While your upbringing may not have been abusive, it was certainly dysfunctional. And the dysfunction alone is enough to cause many problems. Your experience is valid to you. The rest of your family is probably just in denial.

Just this week, my husband's brother accused him of not being strong enough growing up. He said my husband should have just taken what was being dished out and not been affected by it. (And his upbringing was terribly violent.) My husband is so hurt by his family not acknowledging his own pain. But the fact of the matter is, they never will. They choose to live in denial.

The challenge is to figure out how to let yourself off the hook. You did nothing wrong. You survived the only way you knew how and were left with the scars to show the pain you went through. Be gentle with yourself.

[purple_fins]

I see some things in your past that could result in an adult feeling as you do. I think your pain is valid.
My husband has similar memories but-of his dad being gone-- and he, as a little guy, waiting by the window till way late-- he said he'd worry that his dad got in an accident or something... he is very sensitive. some things that he felt upset about from childhood, I'd not blink an eye over-- but that is him and I am me and neither one is right or wrong. We all have our own tolerances and each one should be respected. Just because your basic needs were provided for and your house was well taken care of and your financial needs were stable, doesn't mean you didn't have times of emotional pain/injury.

There's always a push-pull inside me between discounting my experiences and feeling good about my parents -- versus accepting my pain as valid and thinking maybe my parents caused some of this.

I don't think it has to be either/or-- it can be that you have some emotional pain of which blame goes partly to your parents and still you can hold onto the good things that your parents did for you.

would it help if you thought of it as them being ignorant of your needs/personality instead of them truly not caring and injuring you on purpose?
This mindset has helped me a little-- like for example: my dad dropped me off at an abusers house coz he was ignorant of what that abuser had been doing to me all along, and he didn't realize the wife wasn't home-- I'm sure he didn't intentionally leave me there to be attacked... my dad just didn't know-- he was ignorant, an absent parent. I feel, for me, it's wasted energy to hold onto blaming him when he didn't know. He never was a parent to me anyway, so why would he start then...... He had a tough childhood and a very rough young adult life so I figure, that explains a lot about him...
it was what it was for me....

I am working on me now, trying to lessen the focus on the "old" relationships-- and turn the focus on the present ones. It's VERY hard work though... trying to understand how a "good" relationship works and what it even looks like!

Your writing always gets my attention-- it's so honest and heartfelt. I hope you find some responses to your post that will help you towards healing.

best to you
fins

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by peaches100

Like I mentioned, my mom says she can’t think of anything from my childhood that would cause my problems today.

I am very impressed with your story, and how you write about it. I certainly can think of things from your childhood that would cause your problems today. It sounds as though your mom does not want to think about it. And it sounds as though your dad needed you to be the parent, and when you failed at that () he got angry with you, derided you for not being what he needed. A familiar story. It certainly does have its effects on your grown life!

[BlessedRhiannon]

Wow. Soooo much of what you wrote could have been written by me. I felt like I was reading about my own childhood and teenage years.

What struck me the most, reading what you wrote, is how incredibly invalidating your childhood was. Your emotions, thoughts, concerns were never recognized, never validated. The ONLY reason I recognize this is because my T and I have been talking about the same thing with my life, and how I've never really felt "heard."

I don't think your family was necessarily abusive or neglectful, but definitely dysfunctional (of course, if I admint your upbringing was anything other than dysfunctional, then I have to admit my own was too, and I'm not ready for that.)

I think sometimes, the important thing is just to have someone else bear witness to how hard your childhood was for you. It isn't something you necessarily have to figure out or try and fix now. Just having someone else hear your story and agree that it was difficult for you and invalidating and that it affected you can help with the healing. Being able to tell it and have those feeling validated lets you put it in the past and try to make changes to your life as it is now.

[Sannah]

Your mom is totally Narcissistic................

[Sannah]

I don't know what your dad's problem was but he certainly had one.........

[Sannah]

Your needs were not met in this family ...........

And you deserved to have your needs met.

[peaches100]

I'm trying to let all this sink in. . .

I appreciate everybody who is taking time to reply.

You guys are too good to me!

Peaches, you're story tugs my heart strings. I understand being confused on how you're childhood could be effecting you as an adult. But, there are many things that I see in you're story that prove and validate you're emotional burden that you carry now. I tend to do the same thing. Discount what happened to me, but place blame on my parents for a lot of the choices I have made growing up. My T has told me that I have to work on forming an acceptence that what happened to me should not be discounted, that its very real and causes me real pain and suffering. She said that sometimes its harder for people to work through some of the more subtle things that happen to us verses the outright abuse because its harder to indentify. I think that you writing all that wanting help to identify what has happened to you shows courage and a step into a healing direction. <3

[elliemay]

Parents and family can be such a sticky sticky wicket. It's hard to know how to feel because there can be good co-mingled with the bad.

The feelings don't fit into a nice neat compartment at all and there can be a strong push/pull - especially when we like things nice and neat.

I would ask you to consider the fact that you are the sum of all of your experiences, good and bad, and placing fault for the bad, and credit for the good at this stage is of little value.

What matters is what you do with those life experiences. It is possible to simultaneously hold joy and sadness, loneliness and belonging, anger and need.

Family can bring all of that out in a big way.

[Elana05]

(((Peaches)))

Thank you for sharing your story. It sounds like you dealt with quite a few traumatic events. But I can relate to the feeling of "well, nothing bad really happened." I have had that feeling a lot in my life. My parents both drink and have throughout my life. But I never used to think of them as alcoholics. I have found a lot of help and information in the group ACoA, though, which describes alcoholic thinking or behavior, which can even be passed down to parents who do not drink themselves. Addiction or other types of dysfunction is passed down in families until it is finally addressed. You may want to check out an ACoA or al anon group in your area.
Be gentle with you... Keep seeking help. You are important and deserve to feel free.
Elana

You're NOT too sensitive. That is a lot of painful stuff. And it was just weird and cruel they didn't tell you they got divorced.

[granite1]

i feel so honored that you shared some of your story with us.it hurts my heart to see what you have been through.abuse is not always physical.it can totally be emotional.you seemed like you were so alone and i am so sorry about that .i bet it was scary and confusing.especially having to figure things out on your own.i bet a lot of trial and error and a lot of pain

[Can't Stop Crying]

Parents should guide and advise us...it doesn't sound like they provided that for you. In addition, the invalidation of your feelings and lack of support lead me to believe they were emotionally neglectful.
There is more to parenting than meeting basic physical needs, children have emotional needs too and I think that's what your parents failed to provide.
Your feelings are very valid and it doesn't all have to be black and white - there can be good mixed in with the bad - one doesn't cancel the other out.
You are very articulate in telling your story. I hope you will continue to find more clarity and that will help you heal.

[rainbow8]

((((((((((Peaches))))))))))

Reading your post makes me feel sad for you. Like you and others have told me, I think you are minimizing the effects your parenting, or lack of, had on you. It's painful to read how your mother basically ignored your need for comfort and attention, and your father criticized you. Whether he was an alcoholic or not, it's clear that his drinking was a major problem, and his behavior towards you sounds abusive to me.

Ignoring you when you told your parents about your neighbor seems very invalidating to me. Even if you said not to confront him, your parents should have done so, IMO. They brushed off all of your complaints and needs.

Not letting you say good-bye to your teacher was cruel. Is that the teacher you found and wrote to again, or is it a different one?

I can understand your continual search for mother figures and your need to attach to your T. You're wanting what you never had from your Mom.

I know your T has told you not to blame your parents. They did the best they could, but I think it's important to realize that they didn't provide you with the love and security that you needed. Even as an adult, they failed to show that they cared about you when you were depressed.

I don't get the sense that they didn't love you, though. I think they didn't know what you needed, that your parents just didn't know how they were supposed to respond appropriately, and still don't. They could have used therapy to help themselves in order to help you.

I agree it's not all black or white, though. You have so many wonderful quailites; you must have gotten them somewhere! It's to your credit that you chose to confront your problems and seek help for yourself. Many hugs for this difficult work you're doing. I wish you peace from all of the conflicts inside of you.

[sunrise]

Peaches, it made me very sad to read about your childhood. Some of what you wrote reminded me very strongly of some memories from my childhood. It wasn't triggering, but chilling, and made me glad that my childhood is over.

What stood out to me about your post was this:

Originally Posted by peaches

But I guess part of my inability to accept and move on is that I don’t know whose fault it was that I was such an unhappy child and turned out to be such a troubled adult.

I think that trying to decide whose fault it was can be a dead end. One can get lost in that quest forever. I think focusing on who is right and wrong and who is at fault does not necessarily lead to healing. If you can drop that goal, what is there that you still need to heal? I think there is something else that you need beyond knowing who was at fault. I hope you can find that. It is clear from what you wrote that your parents did a lot of things that they shouldn't have. Very clear!!! Does it help to have people say that to you? Will that end your quest to find our who is at fault if we all say your parents behaved in a c**ppy way to you? Unfortunately, even if they shouldn't have acted that way, we never know for sure why a person turned out the way they did. One's experiences interact with one's personality and genes to lead to how one is in the present day, and it is pretty hard to say "this is the reason I turned out the way I am." It's complex. I don't think it would help us to know the complicated details of that, even if we could.

I think there is a lot of dissatisfaction with your present day interactions with your parents, especially your mother. That is something I think you could take steps to change, with your T's guidance and support. Your efforts may not be successful, but if not, they at least could lead to some boundaries surrounding your interactions so that they are not so hurtful. And maybe you might be surprised (in a good way) if improvement did occur. But you would need to be prepared that no change would result, and that could hurt. But at least you would know that you tried, which might provide some comfort or make it easier to take action about boundaries. Taking action in the present might help you heal from the past. I don't know.... (((((peaches)))))

[tohelpafriend]

Your story and feelings are all valid. It sounds as though the pattern of your mother not being there for you so many times compounded into a form of emotional deprivation (my mother was self-absorbed and narcissistic, too). I recently discovered Dr. Jeffrey Young's book, "Reinventing Your Life", which has helped me to identify the "traps" , like emotional deprivation or abandonment get triggered in my search for the right man and other relationships. Maybe you could explore this story with your psychologist to understand how to get over it and forgive your mother so you are not trapped in the past and can discover your identity apart from what was lacking.

((((((((Peaches))))))))

Something that makes it really hard for me to move on is my difficulty in just ACCEPTING that my childhood was what it was. I have this very young wish that it would be different, and it's so hard for me to let that go, even now when my childhood is over.

I wonder if the question of "fault" is kind of keeping you in a similar place...a place of not being able to just accept that what happened happened, and to begin healing?

I'm sorry that your childhood was so hard, and that healing is so hard.
You are worth all of this hard work...you deserve to heal.

[peaches100]

Originally Posted by Perna

Acceptance isn't about fault. The past happened, and it wasn't very good. My mother died when I was three, whose "fault" is that? My T pointed out that she probably didn't want to die, didn't want to leave 4 children behind?

Our parents might not have been great parents, they might not have been great parents to just us, we might not have been very "bright" children, but that is all over now. We are grown up, willy nilly, with good and bad aspects to our personalities and various things we know/don't know. We need to assess what we have now and what we want for our future.

One of the reasons it is hard to figure things out is because we get to decide what the problem is and where to draw any lines and thus, being personal, they keep shifting on us. We can decide an action on our parents part was "their fault" and influenced us or we can decide their action was what "any" parent might do and our reaction was "our fault". But there's no benchmark of what was right/wrong. All there is in our world is us. What we do, think, and feel is what we do, think and feel! We can only control what we do, what we think and feel are both there to help us learn and grow. We can learn to think in a particular way, decide to think in whatever way we think will help us. We can think, "my parents didn't love me" and go with that or we can think, "my parents did the best they could" and go with that. When we feel hurt by something we can look at the "something" or we can look at ourselves, our hurt, and try to figure out how to help ourself with it. We have no control whatsoever on the "something" but we can look at and understand ourselves better whenever/wherever we wish.

What do you wish you had in your life today? More friends, more love, less anxiety, less depression, etc.? Pick something and figure out how to get it into your life. Make it a "goal" and figure out baby steps to accomplish it.

Not being able to say goodbye to your 4th grade teacher was very sad! I wasn't allowed to take flute lessons in 6th grade (I did well on a music test and was recommended to a special program) and, when I was in my 30's decided to give myself the gift of private clarinet lessons! It isn't/wasn't about the 4th grade teacher, it was about you.

You were very sad being separated from your teacher and not saying goodbye. Do you make sure you say goodbye well now to others/things that are important to you but which it is time to give up/let go of? Do you help those around you say goodbye well when they need that opportunity? What did you learn about yourself from wanting to say goodbye and not having the opportunity?

There's always multiple "sides" to every experience and that experience can be "taken" and felt about multiple ways. Thank you for telling your story, now I have additional reminders (your stories) to help me with my life problems. When I don't have the opportunity to say goodbye well I'll remember you and your 4th grade teacher and not feel so alone!

Hi Perna,

I'm thinking about what you said: that you can accept something without having to determine who was "at fault." I guess I've been really hung up on needing to know whose fault it was, because if it was somehow my fault that my parents didn't bond more with me and weren't protective or affectionate, then i would not feel right talking about my pain, because i wouldn't feel that it was justified.

It feels like an awkward, odd approach for me to accept what happened and validate my feelings and pain when i don't know if the pain "should" be there. Like, the way i think, i feel that 1. If other people think what my parents did wasn't such a big deal, then 2. Maybe it "wasn't" --- and therefore 3. Maybe i "shouldn't" be feeling bad about my childhood or talking about it, and 4. By doing so, I'm unfairly making my parents look bad. I feel guilty about it if they didn't do anything that wrong and i'm over-reacting. Does that make sense? I guess I'm scared that my validating my feelings and pain, that i am somehow being mean or unfair to my parents. Yet when i try to tell myself what i went through wasn't a big deal, it doesn't feel "right," as my emotions tell me it was a big deal. So i'm stuck.

I totally get what you're saying about how we can interpret things different ways, we can decide to think a certain situation was a certain way. I could say it was my fault or their fault, depending on how i look at it. But that's what keeps me feeling so confused. I feel stuck on needing to know "which" way of looking at things is correct. I'm wanting to be able to label it in a definite way that i can understand, to have some clear category i can assign it to. Without that, everything feels relative and in so many shades of gray that i can't decide what i'm looking at or how i should feel. Maybe i don't feel safe if i can't understand things as clearly black or white, i don't know.

But i think what you're telling me is that there IS NO black or white answer, right? Uggghhhh. . .for some reason, it makes me feel unsafe! Like i don't know how to tackle a situation unless/until i can clearly define it in my mind. I wonder how i can get past needing to do that?? How do you accept something that you don't (and probably never will) truly understand?

I guess I'm saying how do i find "peace" when i have only "pieces" of understanding?

[peaches100]

Originally Posted by Perna

Acceptance isn't about fault. The past happened, and it wasn't very good. My mother died when I was three, whose "fault" is that? My T pointed out that she probably didn't want to die, didn't want to leave 4 children behind?

Our parents might not have been great parents, they might not have been great parents to just us, we might not have been very "bright" children, but that is all over now. We are grown up, willy nilly, with good and bad aspects to our personalities and various things we know/don't know. We need to assess what we have now and what we want for our future.

One of the reasons it is hard to figure things out is because we get to decide what the problem is and where to draw any lines and thus, being personal, they keep shifting on us. We can decide an action on our parents part was "their fault" and influenced us or we can decide their action was what "any" parent might do and our reaction was "our fault". But there's no benchmark of what was right/wrong. All there is in our world is us. What we do, think, and feel is what we do, think and feel! We can only control what we do, what we think and feel are both there to help us learn and grow. We can learn to think in a particular way, decide to think in whatever way we think will help us. We can think, "my parents didn't love me" and go with that or we can think, "my parents did the best they could" and go with that. When we feel hurt by something we can look at the "something" or we can look at ourselves, our hurt, and try to figure out how to help ourself with it. We have no control whatsoever on the "something" but we can look at and understand ourselves better whenever/wherever we wish.

What do you wish you had in your life today? More friends, more love, less anxiety, less depression, etc.? Pick something and figure out how to get it into your life. Make it a "goal" and figure out baby steps to accomplish it.

Not being able to say goodbye to your 4th grade teacher was very sad! I wasn't allowed to take flute lessons in 6th grade (I did well on a music test and was recommended to a special program) and, when I was in my 30's decided to give myself the gift of private clarinet lessons! It isn't/wasn't about the 4th grade teacher, it was about you.

You were very sad being separated from your teacher and not saying goodbye. Do you make sure you say goodbye well now to others/things that are important to you but which it is time to give up/let go of? Do you help those around you say goodbye well when they need that opportunity? What did you learn about yourself from wanting to say goodbye and not having the opportunity?

There's always multiple "sides" to every experience and that experience can be "taken" and felt about multiple ways. Thank you for telling your story, now I have additional reminders (your stories) to help me with my life problems. When I don't have the opportunity to say goodbye well I'll remember you and your 4th grade teacher and not feel so alone!

Hi Again Perna,

I realized i didn't answer all your questions.

What do i want in my life today? There are alot of things. For one thing, i want a mother figure because i still feel so many deep unmet needs. But i've tried that with a friend before and it ended horribly. So now i'm trying to get some of those needs met with my t.

I'd like to have deeper, more lasting friendships. I've found, though, that most friendships are surface level, and people move around so much, friendships just don't seem to last long.

I guess i need to figure out what i want more of in my life that feels "attainable." I'd definitely like more peace and less anxiety. That's a good goal for me. I need to practice the DBT and coping skills more, and i also need to draw much more on my relationship with God and His ability to sustain me in times of emotional pain.

I like the way you gave yourself clarinet lessons as an adult! I'm sorry you couldn't have had that experience as a child, but it's a good example of how we can learn to meet our own needs today. I need to think more about my situation and what I "can" do to help myself.

You asked me, since i couldn't say goodbye to my 4th grade teacher, do i take the time today to say a proper goodbye to people who leave my life? In general, i have not been good at doing this. But i have made some improvements. For example, i had a close friendship that ended abruptly on a very sour note. We didn't have any dealings with each other for 7 years. During that time, i often felt pain, not only over the loss, but also over the fact that we'd never talked it over, and i never got any closure. So, even though it was 7 years later, i wrote that person a letter, saying everything i needed to say but hadn't. I felt relief after that, and it has been easier for me to move on.

[Perna]

You are the center of your world You have to know who you are and what you feel and how you experience things, etc. If you felt pain from your parent's actions, that is "real" pain! YOU felt it! But, it is you feeling the pain, not your parent's causing it or not that is the important part; you are/have to be worth it to you, whatever you think, feel, experience.

Think of your favorite color. Is it your parents favorite color? Of course not! What you experience is ALL like that, personal and idiosyncratic to you. Think of your siblings; they were raised by your parents too but they experienced/felt things differently, according to who they are, not according to what your parents did or did not do or what you did or did not experience!

My experiences in life have translated to my enjoying going to the dentist. I actually stopped my suicidal thinking once by making an appointment to get my teeth cleaned a month further out; I had an appointment, I couldn't break that by killing myself could I? Crazy, yes? But very Me and it works/ed for me! That's all that matters. Almost everyone else is afraid of the dentist, dreads the dentist but I go every 6 months, enjoy going and enjoy my dentist/his staff and they enjoy me. It's a wonderful social event for me.

That's how your childhood is for you. The desire for certainty (I have that too :-) the wanting the black and white answer, if you want, some of that is definitely your parents' "fault" you were not helped to feel/experience a state of comfortable well-being, you were probably not encouraged to experience yourself and thinking, feeling, and "being" yourself. However, the problem with that is your parents weren't deliberately withholding those experiences from you, that "education", they did not have it in their own lives themselves, could not teach it to you because they didn't know it/how to do that.

That's where "acceptance" comes in. You have to "start" with where you are now. You have a lot of "education" that you and your T will work on together in the coming year(s). You have to encourage yourself to learn to experience yourself and thinking, feeling, and "being" yourself. Have fun!

[peaches100]

My parents are in town right now from Nevada, and i spent some time with them Saturday. I'm trying to pay close attention to what they say and do, hoping for a better understanding of our relationship.

One thing my mom brought out here with her was a written family history that the family has been keeping since early 1900s. Each generation writes something about her life, so it will continue through time. My mom had just written hers. It was 2 typed pages long. I read it and one thing jumped out at me:

She briefly mentioned her family, but she didn't say how she felt about any of them or mention any experiences of feeling close or connected. One thing i noted in her writeup was that two of her sisters were her school teachers for a short time (all 4 of her sisters were far older than she was). I asked my mom, "Wow, with 4 older sisters, did you sort of feel like you had 5 moms?" She told me, "Well, i wasn't particularly attached to them, but they probably enjoyed being able to take care of a child."

Also in her writeup, she said she much preferred being outside to being inside. So every day, after school, she would follow her dad and brother around while they did their farm chores: milking cows, feeding livestock, etc. When I asked her "Why do you think you preferred to spend time outside rather than inside?" she said, "It wasn't anything personal, not to be around them particularly. But i just enjoyed being outside and being in nature."

What this made me think about is, if my mom wasn't very attached to her family growing up. . .could this be why it doesn't feel like she attached/bonded very much with me as a child? It kind of opened up a new dimension in my thinking, because I've ALWAYS felt like i was somehow to blame that my mom doesn't seem to love me the way others moms do (or at least i don't "feel" it from her).

Could it be that it might not be my fault completely? Maybe my mom doesn't know HOW to attach to people. I always felt like it was a choice of hers not to bond with me. . .and that there was something wrong with me that made her not want to bond with me.