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#1
Oct 09, 2014, 12:32 PM
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Hi to all... I have attached a summary of some recent text with my spouse.
I welcome "clarity" as this is a marriage of 3 year and I will admit, coming out of a prior abusive marriage I am afraid that I now spot the red flags possibly all too well. The problem is I do not want to see them! I want to fix it. I am a fixer, but I now feel lost ...Thank you for any words of wisdom/clarity to any that cares to read the attached. Please Forgive duplicates and typos... |
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#2
Oct 10, 2014, 06:27 AM
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Welcome to PC!
Couldn't get link to open from ipad? If seeing warning signs or being abused Please be safe! Keep posting, lots of support here. 
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#3
Oct 10, 2014, 09:29 AM
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#4
Oct 10, 2014, 09:33 AM
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#5
Oct 10, 2014, 09:47 AM
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Below is a copy of some recent text that I have saved / relationship trouble/ insight is welcome! Help!
I am a mother of two, now teenage girls, in my second marriage, their step dad of now 3 years...total relationship 5 years...What is happening?  To my lawyer…He threw a few more tantrums this weekend and told me he hated me this morning, all bc I suggested that he needs to "grow up" He's already told me he's taking half of everything and going to make me sell this house to the equity out. (All ridiculous statements) Should I wait on him to file first? I think he will. I will be glad to come in to speak with you if you need me to... Otherwise I will just sit back and wait, if that's the best strategy. lawyers reply…If it is a hostile unhealthy environment probably good idea to file and get him out of house. Otherwise he will just keep acting this way until he gets around to filing. The biggest question you have to ask is do you believe that your marriage is over and divorce is where y'all are headed? If you know in your heart and mind that you no longer want to be married to him then I would not subject yourself or your children to the hostile environment any longer. No points for staying in that type of environment. my reply: Yeh it's a mess! This has de railed me a bit and I'm sure he picks up on that. I'm reading a good book on the way abusive men think and it is helping me to keep my eyes open for patterns. The girls are good and smart enough to see him as child like in many ways. We are all trying to make the home environment one of peace and respect. I hope he is smart enough to see that and do the same. He just seems to be angry on the inside. Contempt twds females, especially strong females of which he lives with three������ You were certainly correct on the "counseling". I found myself drowning in the blame of all of my many imperfections. I had to redirect focus during the last session to re-emphasize the real problem & proper significance! She got caught up in the light of all his glory. He lined her up as a rescue attempt. It served its purpose, I guess...(3 sessions) She probably should have referred us out as soon as she learned of the abuse in first session. Text to my husband Hate is a strong word, The first cousin of contempt. The first time I ever saw it on your face was the day you introduced me to your mother. I loved you so I tried to be her friend when she reached out to me. You have been showing contempt towards me and the girls for months now. You should think about getting that worked out within yourself or the next female Will see it too. his reply to me….My mom doesn't repetitively accuse me of things I haven't done. Other women haven't either. Just you. Congratulations And yes, hate is a strong word. Took you a long time to earn that And the "contempt" i show is, of course, all my fault. Has nothing to do with you buying into a kids lie, as you bought in again to nats lie after you wouldn't answer your own phone Thursday night. My fault again! U keeping count? And how did my mother cause these things again?? You don't make sense to me, my family, your family, or a counselor.... I warned you multiple times not to get close to my mother. Yet another time you wouldn't listen. You have made your own decisions text to my cousin that listens to me…My bully told me he hated me Monday morning and threw a few tantrums this weekend over the silliest of things not even related to me. This has de railed me a bit and I'm sure he picks up on that. I'm reading a good book on the way abusive men think and it is helping me to keep my eyes open for patterns. The girls are good and smart enough to see him as child like in many ways. We are all trying to make the home environment one of peace and respect. I hope he is smart enough to see that and do the same. He just seems to be angry on the inside. Her reply to me: Contempt twds females, especially strong females of which he lives with three������ Yes. ...as hard as you try....this is up to him and you cannot change him. Remember that. I read a letter M wrote me 17 yrs back when going thru my important docs I needed to come w me and I found this letter talking about his anger like it was a third person and never apologizing to me. I gave it to my attorney just so he knew what he was dealing with. 17 yrs and zero change.. But again...if you need me for anything I will be there. I need you to realize there is nothing wrong w you. Do not take on his crap he keeps heaving on top of you. Hand him back his shame....or he will turn into the victim and you the bad guy. Classic narcissist and BPD .... Love you Thank you so very much for being you! text to my cousin…U nailed it Cluster B combo of NPD/BPD, only in my unprofessional opinion. This book is helping me wrap my head around it. her reply :Good....do not give him an inch. You are stronger than you think. I know you are mentally physically and emotionally worn out and that is when they choose to pounce so keep your eyes wide open. I love you for being you ... text to my cousin…Yes. This morning he said... This puts things in perspective for you. Meaning my dads cancer. On the surface those seem like words of compassion but it was more of a statement to intimidate. I have seen this psychological pattern he uses many times, but just now understanding it as "control" I am thankful I grew up naive and carefree because I was confident and happy not thinking others might have not so healthy intentions. After several of "people related wake up calls... I have, for the first time in my life trying to learn people, something I have never given much thought in to. I'm learning too much and it's embarrassing overwhelming. her reply: I have done and still do the same thing. And you will end up finding what I know to be true. There are very few genuine people in this world. And you, like me, are a people magnet and I have to set up major boundaries w most so they play nice and never reel me in.... I guess so. I don't like it this way! I know but it is amazing how many takers there are Predators vs prey. I have always found myself as prey and never understood why. I wish I didn't know�� Because you are mercy hearted like me. And you cannot change it. I actually have asked some people in my life to help me w discerning others because I tend to want to believe the best in others and end up getting burned. So I tip toe now....and I am a lone wolf like you....and a homebody. But being compassionate is a good thing too because we are the soft place for people to fall and because we have learned the hard way...we can be the hammer too if needed yet still love that person. And I weed my garden of friends every year....small circle of trust We are one in the same. I've never known anyone that "relates" like you do. No punt intended I know .....my sister said I burn too fast w other people....and I should stop...this coming from my sis who only has friends from when she worked and has never let another in. And I know she is lonely. My parents used to think Tracy was the strong one and little did they know it was their mercy hearted daughter that was the strongest of all. And you are too. Just remember that. All of the crap in our lives teaches is and we can pass it on when needed. my reply…Ah very true!!! I can't change parts of me but I can gain knowledge and be better equipped, & roll it off as needed. I noticed my anger returned once he became physical with me. That's the part I least like to come out bc I've healed in so many ways to forgive and move on from john, but a trigger is a trigger... And to know that trey does it sadistically is disturbing. her reply: Yes. I always said ' I do not like the person I am when around or with my soon to be x'. I am hyper vigilant and my anger is always just barely beneath the surface wanting to be unleashed. That does not go away when you are dealing w anyone that abuses or manipulates you. That trigger is w you to keep you safe....says my therapist and I do believe he is dead on. My text to my cousin…He had another episode of cursing and saying he hates me again... I told him he had better grow up quick and then I revealed that I was a signature away... Embarrassed to say that his tone was so hostile that nat heard him from upstairs and recorded his words. I sent him this yesterday. My text to my husband… I'm detaching without even trying to. He was extremely pleasant last night after my text below. I don't have much trust in the matter, as I probably shouldn't. I'm slow to jump to divorce but yet I'm one step closer to it. This was my text. He did not respond and we did not speak of it. I sought counsel after you became physical. No, I have not filed. As I have said, I would prefer that the physical/ cruel stuff to stop! It's that simple. You have yet to tell me it will stop with certainty and have reassured me that if "provoked" you feel justified! What woman would feel safe being told you hate me, cursing me, threatening me and physically intimidating me. That's not love. With some specific intervention on the real problem we might stand a chance if we choose to. If this boundary cannot be respected then we should part. Thinking back on each time you have screamed, thrown or broken something , physically raged or forcefully restrained.... They were each time a different, unrelated subject; none of which I was touching you, some I was many feet away from you or no where close to you at all. There is no way I can know your many triggers. Here are the ones I know... A move to a home with more space , but in the same neighborhood, a nail, an ice maker, a sewage pump, a child, a teenager, a fake ring, your mom, my asking questions at the wrong time, my not coming to bed on time, a black man, washing a dog, a car choice, a news article opinion, a lamp off, Smudges on the cabinet doors, a chair or couch repositioned. All of which anybody could justify as irritants but nothing justifies abusiveness. I self reflect to the point of only what I can control. Please reflect on yourself with this problem so that you can own up and seek guidance, otherwise you will go the rest of your life blaming others, and lose us. I am YOUR biggest cheerleader and I'm suffocating in the fog of fear and confusion. I cannot sell it to you, my worth, that is... I have no problem seeing and respecting your worth in spite of faults. If you are willing, we could get the correct type of help and get back to healthy  With or without our being together, this will eventually have to be dealt with, understood, and resolved as a part of growth in life. I'm willing to go through it with you if you want us.My daughter is crying. They heard it said you hated me again. They don't understand. I don't either We three girls have been wounded. You have been good for us and I will always love and respect you. Children need words of repair from their parents. They don't understand as much as adults do Well lucky for you 3 y'all are very good at lying to each other. Children also need correction. You've been out of your element and bored the last 5 years. Your trusted friend Cathy was right when she compared me to Stewart. Too bad for you. I found a house Myself, 2 sets of parents, and a counselor understand what's going on here, but you know everything. It's your loss It is my loss. You do not have to tell me that. It's gonna get worse this kid thing. We need to either stop the bleeding or rip off the band aid bc this has become ridiculous. It's not about you unless you have to have it that way. If you hate us then you are free. You ways have been. Be nice and learn to apologize when it's your turn. I can't teach you that. I have my hands full and will for several more years. You do what you must but if choose to stay you have got to behave and self reflect and stop blaming. I cannot teach you that either. Do not Threaten a mother and her babies was a rule you should already know His reply….You won't listen to anyone. Family or professional. I already said I found a house. I'll be out by the end of the week Okay By all means, I fully expect you to continue to be the victim you've always been Not this time. You have made me and them better people. It's up to you if want to continue or not. Either way I understand. Be sweet to Girls. We are Girls! You are calculated and instigating. Simple as that. I hate the day I met you You brought up divorce when I had been out of work less than a month. Lol. Been a long time coming my reply…I am sorry I hurt you. I am I'm going respectfully silent now. Do what you ever makes you happy. That is all I want for all of us Natalie is crying. The heard it said you hated me again. They don't understand. I don't either We three girls have been wounded. You have been good for us and I will always love and respect you. Children need words of repair from their parents. They don't understand as much as adults do His reply…Well lucky for you 3 y'all are very good at lying to each other. Children also need correction. You've been out of your element and bored the last 5 years. Your trusted friend was right when she compared me to a loyal guy. Too bad for you. I found a house Myself, 2 sets of parents, and a counselor understand what's going on here, but you know everything. It's your loss My reply It is my loss. You do not have to tell me that. It's gonna get worse this kid thing. We need to either stop the bleeding or rip off the band aid bc this has become ridiculous. It's not about you unless you have to have it that way. If you hate us then you are free. You ways have been. Be nice and learn to apologize when it's your turn. I can't teach you that. I have my hands full and will for several more years. You do what you must but if choose to stay you have got to behave and self reflect and stop blaming. I cannot teach you that either. Do not Threaten a mother and her babies was a rule you should already know You won't listen to anyone. Family or professional. I already said I found a house. I'll be out by the end of the week Okay By all means, I fully expect you to continue to be the victim you've always been Not this time. You have made me and them better people. It's up to you if want to continue or not. Either way I understand. Be sweet to Girls. We are Girls! His reply… You are calculated and instigating. Simple as that. I hate the day I met you You brought up divorce when I had been out of work less than a month. Lol. Been a long time coming my reply…I am sorry I hurt you. I am I'm going respectfully silent now. Do what you ever makes you happy. That is all I want for all of us I later write to my cousin….I have been listening to audio books to gain knowledge on specific related topics while I work. He openly apologized to both girls last night for his behaviors. Of course, I had to do it first, but I always do. No skin off my back, there. I apologized for accusing him of things not proven, to the point of resentment. I am learning that I am controlling in my own way. He apologized for handling these matters the wrong way, and for the hurt he has caused from his actions, temper, words. I have no idea where we are going from here, however the repair attempts made to the girls are necessary regardless of what we decide to do from here. The book I'm listening to breaks it down into what to look for as proof of real change taking place. If our chances are only1% then leave it to me to be the one to say the cup is half full. I guess I have to do things a certain way in order to live with the consequences... Whatever they may turn out to be. The "learning/ reading" is giving me much insight, like an owners manual. I think if I see this thing just keeps breaking, I will throw it away sooner than I would have not reading the "manual" Knowledge is power Seemed to be Mixed emotions after the apologies. He finally realized the effect it had/has on the girls. My daughter cried but then was pissed and said she wants him to leave bc she can't get past hearing him say hates me. Mandy said she saw him cry and understands giving him a chance to "fix" things. she admitted she does the same thing in close relationships. Deep down, the younger child bonded with him early on, bc she was younger and he spent some time with her. Now that they are teens, the bond has faded but it must still be something deep down she may want fixed also. It's hard to for children to have two men exit their worlds. I feel awful for this and praying for healing and insight. I feel we are in the eye of the storm. One of which I realize I have no ability to predict or control. I'm sitting still, holding on, mouth shut and eyes wide open My text to his parents after I informed them of his escalating abuse….His mother said she tried to warn me…After my husband was confronted my myself and his parents, they took it light on him as he minimized the abuse and claimed I was the physical and verbally abusive one. Then, they turned on me and told him I was a dangerous idiot My text to his parents. They did not reply Regardfully, I understand more than it may seem. I also felt the many complexed emotions and still do. We are working through these trials and believe we are, as a family, adept enough to do so. I felt I had no option but to share, as I cautioned him I would. I also realize I was in a shocked state of mind that may have been misrepresented My text to my husband…If the counselor was so "one your side" then why did you cancel? This is about abuse. Nothing justifies abuse and she made that very clear to you! If a coiled up snake is in the yard... Others should will be cautious around it. You have admitted you want us to have fear. We have been there and done that and it's a barbaric/ ignorant outdated way of showing leadership. I do not need to be ruled that way, not will I tolerate it. I am not a dog! Even Work places are held accountable if someone threatens, rages, and tries to manage by intimidation. We have all heard you say you spew your hate and we have seen or experienced your violence. We are being vigilant is all. Only you can change the way you are perceived. I will not live in fear. This is a safe house and will remain one. his reply…I canceled because you were getting worse. You weren't hearing what you wanted to hear, and you can't handle that. And after all you said blatantly twice you weren't going to go. Lol. Wow at your perception. And that's what I left on her voicemail. The simple things you can't grasp are obvious to others. Sad my reply…Just stop! That is all you have to do. Just be nice. A strong need to be vindicated and blame everyone for everything is a high price to pay but it may get you just that and only that. Well I let her know that unless you would admit to the abuse that I would never feel safe. Nor should I! She didn't know what she was dealing with. A marriage counselor is not qualified to deal with domestic violence and most refer out immediately! The more you get validated on any issue the more unsafe this becomes. So you " project" and confuse others to be validated by leading them off the subject. I have and will validate your many complaints of "how bad you have it" living with us if that's what you need. I will not validate your justification of abuse! If you cannot understand that then you should remove yourself from us! Note to cousin…He got mad and cursed me this morning bc I shared with him that the girls came down to the pier and sat with me last night. I told him it was good bc the were being silly and laughing. He became enraged and said it was bc he was not here! He lost temper and told me that his parents, my parents and the counselor all side with him. Then he stormed out to work. My text....If the counselor was so "one your side" then why did you cancel? This is about abuse. Nothing justifies abuse and she made that very clear to you! If a coiled up snake is in the yard... Others should will be cautious around it. You have admitted you want us to have fear. We have been there and done that and it's a barbaric/ ignorant outdated way of showing leadership. I do not need to be ruled that way, not will I tolerate it. I am not a dog! Even Work places are held accountable if someone threatens, rages, and tries to manage by intimidation. We have all heard you say you spew your hate and we have seen or experienced your violence. We are being vigilant is all. Only you can change the way you are perceived. I will not live in fear. This is a safe house and will remain one. His reply: I canceled because you were getting worse. You weren't hearing what you wanted to hear, and you can't handle that. And after all you said blatantly twice you weren't going to go. Lol. Wow at your perception. And that's what I left on her voicemail. The simple things you can't grasp are obvious to others. Sad I wrote: Just stop! That is all you have to do. Just be nice. A strong need to be vindicated and blame everyone for everything is a high price to pay but it may get you just that and only that. Well I let her know that unless you would admit to the abuse that I would never feel safe. Nor should I! She didn't know what she was dealing with. A marriage counselor is not qualified to deal with domestic violence and most refer out immediately! The more you get validated on any issue the more unsafe this becomes. So you " project" and confuse others to be validated by leading them off the subject. I have and will validate your many complaints of "how bad you have it" living with us if that's what you need. I will not validate your justification of abuse! If you cannot understand that then you should remove yourself from us! His reply… I said I was wrong for pushing you away. I was. I should have left the room. Abuse... Haha, You make me laugh. Always the victim, huh You ran me a good line of BS for a long time. Now it's running out Stop cursing me! Stop accusing me, stop blaming me for answering my phone when you wouldn't even pick up for your own child. Stop accusing me of raging at the kids just because you won't step up and be a parent. When a brat kid screams at me, I'm gonna scream back. Just keep your head in the sand Kim. That way you can laugh it off and blame everybody else Like I said, even an 18 year old pot head can tell your daughter that if she knows disrespect is going to cause a problem, maybe she shouldn't disrespect. It's just that simple. But to you it's abuse. Sad If my sharing with you about a few moments of our night, last night sets you off then we will never work! Are you jealous of the kids? I cannot change this way of thinking. They have been so shut off to me and they are starting to come back around. I saw it for what it is. Getting back to healthy. I'm sorry you saw it very differently. I had no idea you would interpret it that way. I will be very careful until you can come through this. I'm here and I love you.
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#6
Oct 14, 2014, 04:05 AM
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What is happening you ask?
Seems like one big miserable cycle that's not likely to change. Especially if there's been some physical abuse & if getting worse. I think you know what's best for you & your children. Thought I was protecting my son thru years of bad marriage that wasn't his real dad. Big mistake on my part. As a 28 yr old he suffers from PTSD, won't go to counseling & can't understand why his girlfriend mistreats him... After 4 yrs he should have moved on but that's what he learned during those years with ex-h here. To stay together, it might get better. But things didn't get better in my home so that's what he learned, to stay & just take it. He even defends her... I have guilt beyond words knowing how he has been affected. Everyone's situation is different. Please stay safe. Kids reactions might not be so obvious now but as adults you want them to make healthy relationship choices. I'm sure you're a wonderful mom so no offense intended. Just my personal experience. Wish you & girls the best. Health & happiness. Take care.
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#7
Oct 14, 2014, 12:28 PM
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I feel so stupid reading what I posted and still having hope. We seem to be better. He rants like a child. Temper tantrums and blaming. He is/was an only child growing up in a small town...with mommy and daddy standing by When I met him, his quiet upbringing was a relief to me, as I had just left the girls father of 13 years. I tolerated quite a bit in that marriage mostly bc that's just what I was taught... til death do us part. I am loyal and too understanding. I see through the tantrums and therefore "take it". I am not saying it is the correct thing to do. At this point dissolving a marriage is also not an easy choice. I hope that my girls can see a couple take the time and effort to work thru issues without throwing it all away. I realize the down side to this if I am wrong, which would be wasted time, etc. I also know the pain of walking away from a relationship and that its not instant relief or healing. I guess a part of me was so beat down with the total of 18 years with the girl's father, that he became my best friend, husband, lover, babies daddy and eventually my controller. I am not clear on what to do in my current situation. I do know that if he is physically abusive again I will have to walk away. The first time he intimidate me, he was in control of the vehicle and I was the scared passenger. After that rage he left me in the parking lot but then returned a few minutes later to get me. All just to "shut me up/intimidate" I had no idea he had this sort of side to him. After that day, I went into a pts like state. I cut off all of my hair and made myself as unattractive as I could in a sub-cons. way to test his love for me. I remained scared of him and verbal assaults continued if I questioned him in any way or on anything. It became a "listen to me" type environment. After 2 more physical rages, another one in the car with threats to leave us over a smart mouthed child.... the last one was over my finally asking him wtf was wrong with him. I touted him with accusations of having an affair or something to cause him to be so angry on the inside. He raged at my accusation and forcefully restrained me to shut me up. I told his family of this physical encounter in an effort to "call him out" It was somewhat effective in that he was humiliated, however, bc he minimized his rage, the family took his side as the way of coping with the information I presented to them about their son. The table turned on me... His family has banned me and he allows them to think whatever they need to as long as he is not to blame. His mother went on to tell me to get my hormones checked and stop accusing her son of an affair. I told her that her son had an anger problem and that I did not feel safe. Their response was...don't provoke him. So, eggshells I walk. He hates this bc, I have told the girls to "stay out of his way" so not he feels like an outcast and claims we are bullying him. His mother thinks we are so disrespectful to him that he has no choice but to explode.... I guess the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree. It is still confusing though bc as much as he will not admit his emotional immaturity, his now actions are that of "trying" and being man like. This is the way I saw him when I met him and when I chose to marry him, so it is very difficult to see him as the child he sometimes acts like. I know he has seen his share of my "ugliness/insecurities" I am very much still open to any and all feedback, as I do realize that I am stubborn and "the cup is half full" personality type. Too optimistic? |
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#8
Oct 14, 2014, 03:32 PM
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Know this: Abuse is a choice. The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans saved my life.
His family...blaming the victim. You don't cause him to abuse; he chooses it. THe only thing your girls are seeing is you walking on egg-shells and abuse. Asking your children to "stay out of his way.......this shouldn't be happening; they are children and are confused and scared. You are playing a dangerous game....causing him to be angry....the next time he is physically abusive might be the last time. Your stubbornness could end with you in a hospital, or your children or dead. I am being blunt, as moderator of an abused survivors' group. Your first responsibility is to those children.... YOU aren't bullying HIM, HE is bullying YOU! Sadly one should NEVER GO Into counseling with the abuser; one of two things can happen (it happened to me, before I knew about this); the abused may say nothing; and therapist doesn't see the dynamics of abuse, or abused does say something and he rages at her later on. P.S. Abusers are quite frequently narcissists and narcissists (literally stop maturing at about age 13); that is why he behaves like a spoiled brat/abuser. You cannot fix him; he has to realize he is abusive and get into some intensive therapy (abusers rarely d o, and if the do, don't stay long because they don't believe they have a problem.....someone else does). You can "take the tantrums? How about your children? Please get into some counseling for yourself AND those children; call the domestic violence hotline. One key here is to STOP trying to get him to admit his abuse, or anything else; he is in denial. Please get help. |
 kindachaotic
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#9
Oct 15, 2014, 09:00 AM
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I have downloaded the audio book by Patricia Evans.
Yeah, I must admit... I have never seen a man not take any responsibility like this one! You nailed it.... 13 year old narc. His mother is BPD/Narc. and father Narc. according to her. She indirectly volunteered this information when we had a relationship. |
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#10
Oct 16, 2014, 01:12 PM
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This is an old thread. You probably should not post your reply to it, as the original poster is unlikely to see it.|
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