Do some people just need to be abused at times?

*Trigger for difficult sexual references and rape*

Can abuse ever be beneficial, in a way? If you already have deep set dysfunction, can unhealthy or abusive elements ever play a role in healing?

I never had a father, and desperately wanted one. Throughout my twenties I chose four men to be 'Daddy' who would actually fulfill parts of that paternal stuff for me.

My first one was very kind and loving and affectionate, and looked after me like I was his child. It's all a bit mad when I look back on it, but I got something I needed from him, I had never known what paternal love was like before him. He was 26 years my senior. He was also abusive in his own way, taking advantage of my sexual naivete, and not really seeing me as a human being in my own right, and his needs were always more important. It's difficult to describe - on paper he was great, he was a feminist and involved in activism and treated me like a princess. But emotionally he was very shallow, I don't think he could help it. He suffered a brain injury as a kid and I used to wonder if that had something to do with it.

Another of these was very intense, and very dark - with him I had what would legally be classed as assault and rape at two different times. One of these times, the responsibility lies at my door as much as his in a way, because we were experimenting with no safeword. But I felt stupidly damaged even directly afterwards, it was so different from consenting activity.

With all these Daddy substitutes though, I got something from them that moved me on, despite it all being completely dysfunctional in many ways. I got enough of whatever I was looking for to no longer hanker after older male attention and affection and guidance. I went into therapy because I knew I was done with it all, wanted to figure out how to love people as an adult to another adult. And that's one of my biggest therapeutic victories, learning how to break free from that dynamic. I honestly thought I was doomed to spend the rest of my life wanting father figures. Now I eye up men my own age in a slightly hungry wolf way And I would not start a serious relationship with somebody more than 10 years older. Loving my therapist was the first time I loved somebody from my adult self, rather than playing Lolita.

In the same way as I had to go through the weird romantic relationships, I am wondering if I always had to go through a very intense therapeutic relationship, that also contained elements of abuse, in order to learn how to take the next step.

It feels like I needed to have these very odd relationships to allow me to grow up another bit, like I needed the abusive parts for some reason, to re experience things. If you have abuse in your childhood, is it possible to then 'need' it again as an adult to learn how to do things differently and move on?

I have moved on from wanting a Daddy, it is something that holds no appeal for me at all these days. But I think if I hadn't done it, I still would be wondering.

Uh, no. Learning functional relationship skills is not a positive effect of being abused. More likely, the dysfunction was solidified and growth delayed by the abuse. More abuse on top of previous abuse just makes healing even more difficult.

I am thinking I wouldn't be so F-up if I hadn't been abused, that maybe I would if hand a chance at healthy no dysfunctional relationships if I hadn't been abused.

If you would have had one healthy T relationship before all the crappy Ts- you could probably have not been through everything you have been through with your other Ts.

I'm sorry, but no one "needs" abuse.

You learned from these relationships because you have that power to do so. That is yours and it was yours with or without these men. Don't ever discount that.

Everything you take from that time is because you have the capability to glean something from it.
Your power was there before the abuse. It was clouded by it. You're reclaiming it now.

I think I might understand what you mean—especially now when it's important to mend from this last therapy experience and find a purpose in it—but I think it's sort of like saying it's necessary to drink and drive until you get into a wreck so that you learn how to not drink and drive.

We just keep repeating the same crap until we wake up and move on.

Even so, you do have your own unique path and are finding ways to grow, so there's a lot to be said for your ability to heal.

I agree. My initial abuse at a very young age set me up for more abuse events throughout my life. I learned my dysfunctional responses at the hands of the couple that tortured me when I was 5. They taught me to stay silent, to fear, to be submissive, that it hurt less to just stay still, and that if I dissociated I disappeared too to a safer place. That set me up to continue taking whatever abuse came my way in silence and submission, over and over again.

Those were dysfunctional lessons that screwed me up for decades. Had they not taught me those lessons, I suspect my life would have gone quite differently. I lost so much time and so much of my true self. So much time wasted and energy expended recovering from what never, ever should have been. No one needs abuse.

My heart hurts reading this. I do understand what you are saying, intellectually. But no, you didn't 'need' to be abused to get to where you are. You ARE there-and that is a testament to YOU-to your strength, courage and intelligence. And I do think that we learn something from everything situation, every relationship. But ultimately, you deserved much, much more than to be abused.

Need to be abused? No.

Need to work through the abuse via a relationship? Yes.

However there is a difference between "working through" and compulsively re-living it.
I say that in empathy, not judgement, because I have similar impulses.

It may feel like the abuse is helping you master your past but it is an illusion.

No, no, no. Emphatic no here.

Abuse is never deserved or beneficial, however ‘dysfunctional’ one might be.

Preying on someone more vulnerable is never ever right and is more damaging than anything else. There are other ways to learn 'life’s lessons' and/or live in a healthy way than to be violated in such a way.

I really get what you're saying, because like you I've also had the older guy "daddy" (although I would have denied it at the time.) And I learned a lot from that. Truth be told though maybe you're advanced from me because I'm in an ET loop with an older male therapist still, however I will say it seems to be improving for me finally, and lately I can even imagine saying goodbye to him. I decided recently this is probably my last year before venturing out "alone" again, sans therapist.

Anywho, I think we do learn a lot being abused, but I don't know that it's all healthy. I came out of childhood some kind of F'd up, and then came out of a long term relationship with another abuser even more so. By my late 20's I had developed a lot of my current MI's, panic disorder, a long history of MDD, GAD... I don't think it was healthy, and now I'm on meds just to stay in a way where I don't fantasize about jumping off the top of the parking garage at the building I work at all day, or hanging myself above my cube.

I think that when you're used to abuse you tolerate it a lot more, but "healthy" people can just flip a switch and walk away, they have more care for themselves to put up with stuff. We have lower self-esteem maybe, think whatever it is is the best we can have... I dunno. I think it's good that you terminated for this reason. Maybe having more healthy and or truly therapeutic relationships can save you from a bit of depression and anxiety and start to break the horrible cycle? Maybe that's what therapy really should be in a nut shell?

I guess I can see your point... but no, still I believe early abuse can be dealt with and healed from without repeating it in adulthood- though I admit it would be really hard to test his hypothesis because the problem is most (if not all) of us do replay these behavior patterns unknowingly and it takes a lot of time to realize it's not working and even longer to do stg with it.

I put myself in a position where I was sexually abused as a defence against vulnerability. If I could withstand that than I wasn't weak.

No, no one needs nor deserves abuse. Never.

I do understand what you are trying to say, I think. However I think that unconsciously we play this pattern out throughout all our relationships.....until we realise this is happening and then can work through the dysfunction with a healthy relationship dedicated to making these changes.

No, nothing beneficial in abuse either emotional or physical. No benefit.

I do have a father but he is emotionally distant as well as emotionally abusive. My mom is not abusive but distant as well. I subconsciously seek men of the same kind. It results in string of unsuccessful love stories. I am in therapy trying to break the cycle with help of my T.

There is NOTHING good about any kind of abuse of anyone for any reason.

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Thank you for your thoughts.

To clarify, I'm not saying anyone needs abuse in the first place, especially not children.

I meant more about when it has already happened, and the damage has been done and it sets you on a track where the only way out of it seems to be to go through more of it. Something about repeating past patterns yes, but also something else I can't quite put words to.

Reenactment.

Well, yes but that's not the total of it.

With my daddy issues, I wasn't just re-enacting stuff. Some stuff I was, but other stuff I had never experienced in the first place, and wanted/ needed to experience it.

It's all trauma based.
A T helps us make sense of what on the surface seems senseless, even our feeling we 'need' abusive situations'

No, never

Even the basic fact that you think one needs to experience MORE abuse in order to heal indicates that you need a lot of help. I say it with empathy. I don't recall if you are in therapy but if not I hope you will be.

I do understand WANTing abuse either because that is all u know or because of other unhealthy unconscious needs but no one NEEDS abuse to get better

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I don't want it anymore - that was actually my biggest therapeutic achievement, that I stopped wanting these dysfunctional relationships with men.

But, for me, there was something I needed from those men at the time (the paternal attention and affection that I hadn't ever had, and don't need nowadays) and it was intertwined with abusive behaviours.

Abuse is never needed, or deserved, or right.

People, however, are resilient and can take horrible experiences and learn from them, find a way to grow from it. That is admirable and I would call it a silver lining...but it's better to have a sunny day than any clouds at all.

I believe you when you say you got something you needed to learn from those experiences, but that doesn't mean it was okay for you to have to go through that. There were and are other ways you could have learned what you needed to learn that didn't involve abuse. I am glad that you were able to take something positive from dreadful situations, though. It's like squeezing the pulp of the last bit of orange rind, you might get some juice but it's going to be bitter and not at all the sweetness you deserve.

I think you mean that you had unhealthy need for abuse not that you actually NEED it

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No, that is not quite what I mean. I am obviously doing a bad job at explaining.

I needed all the good bits of these 'Daddy' guys - the affection, attention, attachment, the whole dynamic. Paradoxically, the dynamic was also abusive in specific ways, at specific times. The trade off was getting the things I needed to experience at some point in my lifetime, having the experience of what it was like to be in a paternal dynamic.

I'm not actually sure there were, for me. The whole Daddy thing was something I had to do, even though with hindsight I can see the unhealthy parts and would not dream of going back to that again.