Did I Win or Lose?

TishaBuv · Nov 29, 2018, 11:40 AM

I sent them all token holiday gifts. They never send us anything anyway. I figured I’d not stop my being nice just because they aren’t. But I’m not calling anyone. If they call, I’ll be polite and not bring up anything.

I’m completely weaned off my Cymbalta, depressed as hell, weepy, and self medicating with Benadryl. Not ODing.

Buffy01 · Nov 29, 2018, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

I agree. It shouldn’t feel like a winner or loser. Both should give. But I was as always the only one who gave. My sister judged me harshly and inaccurately. When she said not to speak of it again, she left it at I was completely at fault, she took pot shots at me and then shut it down. We decided to maintain benign contact rather than estrangement. The rest of the family is fine with estrangement unless I call and act like nothing happened continuing the same game that’s been ongoing.

What is a long distance family relationship supposed to be? This is sure not appealing to me.

I'm sorry that this has happened to you!

TishaBuv · Nov 29, 2018, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buffy01

I'm sorry that this has happened to you!

Thanks, Buffy. I’m sorry too.

Why didn’t I get kindness and empathy from any of them? They don’t really like me. I’m really not important to them. Am I just a worthless person?

I don’t have perceived abandonment issues. I have real abandonment. Unless I can give in to their ways they won’t speak to me again. I was really bullied by my family.

One sister who gave me what my kids called a ‘sick burn’, ignoring me and saying she had to go get her oil changed never called again.

The only other one said she did nothing wrong. She probably won’t call again either. Even if she does, I’ll never feel the same about her now.

My mother ordered me to not go no contact with her. She said ‘that would be a sin’. What crap. She uses words to her advantage and means nothing, just manipulation.

My step father proved himself to be a creep who cares nothing for me. He’s just my mother’s husband. My own father never loved me either. He cut out from this world when I was small. I was only born to trap him. My mom actually told this to me.

I am a survivor of abuse and I don’t care for how much longer that life lasts. I’ve been really emotionally ill for such a long time now.

here today · Nov 29, 2018, 09:44 PM

I totally get it. It really sucks. I'm so sorry, I feel like I'm in the same boat. One foot in front of the other, one day at a time.

TishaBuv · Nov 30, 2018, 08:00 AM

The father abandonment thing set me off last night. I have this aching desire to be defended and protected and I’ve barely ever had that from anyone.

My husband was acting compassionate because I was crying. I had the unhealthy reaction I have been having toward him because he is totally passive in the situation. If it were reversed, I’d be calling up those shythead relatives and discussing why they are callously stonewalling my spouse who is severely depressed. But he does not have these thoughts in his head. I did not say anything except that I have issues with the defense thing but don’t want anything from him that he is not. I said “I don’t want to try to make you my flying monkey”.

He watched tv in one room. I cried in another.

When we went to sleep, I said, “Tonight actually went well between us.” He said, “It did?” (Lol). I said, “yes. I didn’t fight with you. I didn’t try to get you involved to defend me. I cried and that’s it. I’ll just keep moving forward and get over this eventually.

Plus, I know it is really petty, but I canceled the order for their token holiday gifts. Screw them. They don’t deserve anything. And it actually made me stop crying and feel a little more empowered.

here today · Nov 30, 2018, 11:05 AM

I don't even send Christmas cards anymore. I love them, but. . .it just doesn't seem real if they can't accept the real me. It wouldn't be real of them, where they are at, to accept the real me, either, apparently. Like I said, maybe someday. . . (if I and they should live so long).

Congrats to you -- and your H -- for doing well together. Celebrate what we can celebrate!! I don't usually read things in this forum and hadn't kept up with that part of the story. So I was very glad to read about it. Good news is good news is good news!! Maybe not much of it around, but sometimes. . .

Open Eyes · Nov 30, 2018, 09:03 PM

Families tend to set up casting roles Tisha, it's like suddenly expecting Archie Bunker to suddenly change and no longer be Archie Bunker because the rest of the characters typically function around his character. You have been handed a role to play in your family and they will treat you like they have always treated you even if you stop playing along. There is no winning in this set up either, that would be asking for everyone to change their role and people tend to function on automatic so they don't have to think as much. So basically, what you are going to keep running into is being treated badly every time you try to push anyone in your family out of their personal role with you.

TishaBuv · Nov 30, 2018, 09:41 PM

I’ve learned I can’t change the dynamics and I don’t matter to them. I’ll try to maintain the most minimal involvement. No calling to play the Game of Phones. No calls to my sisters. If I am contacted I’ll be brief and cool.

After all the information I’ve read and learned from others here, this really was textbook stuff.

Thanks again to all here. You are angels to me.

Open Eyes · 11:11 AM

Quote:

I’ve learned I can’t change the dynamics and I don’t matter to them.

And this upsets you Tisha, you get very frustrated and end up either arguing with your husband because he doesn't stand up for you like you want him to or you go off by yourself and cry. You use the term "win" a lot as you entitled this thread of yours. Well, unfortunately the concept of "win" that happens in families can contribute to a lot of dysfunction because in order for someone to win that means someone else has to lose and no one likes to lose and in dysfunctional families this always affects someone's self esteem. This is what contributes to "I don't matter to them" feeling.

Often the decision to do the no contact thing with people or family isn't really about choosing to disengage because of how toxic it is to engage but instead its simply a form of punishment to get attention or control or sense of "power" instead. When we are children and don't follow the rules and behave, our parents choose to punish us by sending us to our room and basically to disconnect from us so we give in to their control and power and rules. Without realizing it, children end up learning that in order to get control and power over others this is how you have to handle them, shut them out and don't talk to them until they apologize and behave. The other thing children learn to punish others is to get a few to join them against the person they want to gain power over. We learn that narcissists practice this by using a method called triangulation where they recruit a third party to side with them against the person they want to have power over. Also, these individuals cultivate a group or click to groom to follow them and this is meant to develop "power" too. After a while, the desire to have some kind of power by being part of a group becomes more important than "truth" or even actually being nice or CARING about how the group acts in ways that actually hurt whatever person is being targeted.

Unfortunately, this is part of our basic human primate design, this is part of how we are designed that is a big part of our survival and yet it's a part of us that is also the most destructive too. You did not "invent" shunning as punishment either. Shunning is very much a part of how human beings behave in order to get other human beings to follow a certain pattern of behaviors and beliefs. By the nature of our design Tisha, when we are shunned we feel more vulnerable because we are designed to feel safer if we are part of a group. So, when you go no contact with your family because of how toxic they can get, you will feel more vulnerable and that's based more on basic instinct which contributes to your not really feeling empowered when you go no contact. What you end up "feeling" when you go no contact is "abandoned and

Quote:

I don’t matter to them.

I am sorry Tisha because I know how that feels first hand and all this means is that you are human and you just want attention and "comforting". Unfortunately, in your family, for whatever reason, that is something that others did not really know HOW to provide for you. It's important that you learn Tisha that doesn't mean you don't have value but instead you are dealing with other individuals who don't know how to help you FEEL you have value. A lot of this is not knowing how to help and care for someone to help them "feel" they have value where it affects one's "power" when they "praise and validate".

When a person grows up in a dysfunctional family, the one thing that person struggles with is their personal sense of self worth. And because there is dysfunction, the individual doesn't learn actual healthy ways of interacting with others that maintains and protects their personal sense of self worth. Unfortunately, we are designed to observe and copy. This is THE MOST marketable part of human beings too. We tend to focus WAY TOO MUCH on the idea of WINNING and somehow being better than and because of that we can be prone to interacting in unhealthy and unproductive ways where winning becomes more important then anything else and can most definitely bring out the worst in human nature.

TishaBuv · Dec 01, 2018, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

And this upsets you Tisha, you get very frustrated and end up either arguing with your husband because he doesn't stand up for you like you want him to or you go off by yourself and cry.
————————
I usually do both. This time I made progress by just crying.
————-
You use the term "win" a lot
————
I do? I’m tempted to search all my posts for verification.
————-
as you entitled this thread of yours. Well, unfortunately the concept of "win" that happens in families can contribute to a lot of dysfunction because in order for someone to win that means someone else has to lose and no one likes to lose and in dysfunctional families this always affects someone's self esteem. This is what contributes to

"I don't matter to them" feeling.
————-
It’s not just a feeling. It’s a fact proven by their actions.
———-
Often the decision to do the no contact thing with people or family isn't really about choosing to disengage because of how toxic it is to engage but instead its simply a form of punishment to get attention or control or sense of "power" instead. When we are children and don't follow the rules and behave, our parents choose to punish us by sending us to our room and basically to disconnect from us so we give in to their control and power and rules. Without realizing it, children end up learning that in order to get control and power over others this is how you have to handle them, shut them out and don't talk to them until they apologize and behave. The other thing children learn to punish others is to get a few to join them against the person they want to gain power over. We learn that narcissists practice this by using a method called triangulation where they recruit a third party to side with them against the person they want to have power over. Also, these individuals cultivate a group or click to groom to follow them and this is meant to develop "power" too. After a while, the desire to have some kind of power by being part of a group becomes more important than "truth" or even actually being nice or CARING about how the group acts in ways that actually hurt whatever person is being targeted.

Unfortunately, this is part of our basic human primate design, this is part of how we are designed that is a big part of our survival and yet it's a part of us that is also the most destructive too. You did not "invent" shunning as punishment either. Shunning is very much a part of how human beings behave in order to get other human beings to follow a certain pattern of behaviors and beliefs. By the nature of our design Tisha, when we are shunned we feel more vulnerable because we are designed to feel safer if we are part of a group. So, when you go no contact with your family because of how toxic they can get, you will feel more vulnerable and that's based more on basic instinct which contributes to your not really feeling empowered when you go no contact. What you end up "feeling" when you go no contact is "abandoned and I am sorry Tisha because I know how that feels first hand and all this means is that you are human and you just want attention and "comforting". Unfortunately, in your family, for whatever reason, that is something that others did not really know HOW to provide for you. It's important that you learn Tisha that doesn't mean you don't have value but instead you are dealing with other individuals who don't know how to help you FEEL you have value. A lot of this is not knowing how to help and care for someone to help them "feel" they have value where it affects one's "power" when they "praise and validate".

When a person grows up in a dysfunctional family, the one thing that person struggles with is their personal sense of self worth. And because there is dysfunction, the individual doesn't learn actual healthy ways of interacting with others that maintains and protects their personal sense of self worth. Unfortunately, we are designed to observe and copy.
————-
I know this was the family dynamic.
————
This is THE MOST marketable part of human beings too. We tend to focus WAY TOO MUCH on the idea of WINNING and somehow being better than and because of that we can be prone to interacting in unhealthy and unproductive ways where winning becomes more important then anything else and can most definitely bring out the worst in human nature.

————-
I sense the constructive criticism of your thoughtful comment. I’m not sure what you are insinuating and I really don’t want another jab from anyone. I said I didn’t go no contact. I’m just never going to be myself with them anymore. It’s irreparably damaged. It will be polite and minimal.
——-

Dec 01, 2018, 06:20 PM

I am sorry you are feeling so wounded. Please take care of yourself and keep trying to find pleasant distractions.

Open Eyes · Dec 01, 2018, 07:05 PM

Quote:

I sense the constructive criticism of your thoughtful comment.

My post to you Tisha was not meant to come across as critical of you. I am glad you can see that I am doing my best to be "thoughtful" as well as trying to actually help define the emotions you experience which I can see are so very challenging and I can actually relate to what you have been describing. It's very hard when one wants to connect with family and yet when making the effort it just becomes toxic.

I have a very long thread of my own where I face some very toxic challenges of my own with my own family of origin in a more private forum. There have been many times where I too wish my husband would stand up for me too. My husband has seen my sister be terrible to me and he cowers and I wish he would just stand up and tell her to stop acting like such a bossy jerk.

Buffy01 · Nov 12, 2020, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pfrog

I went NO CONTACT with mine long ago.

It's a very difficult thing to do, but ...

When our physical and emotional well-being are at play then it's the correct choice.

I agree. I had to do this myself. It was difficult.

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