Punishable by DEATH - ?

I had a fleeting thought and I wondered what other sexual abuse victims have to say on the subject......

My Thought:

If only the Government would deem sexual abuse punishable by death - then maybe others would have a fighting chance.

There is a case right now happening in New Orleans where a man that r***** his step daughter is going to court to determine just that. They said on the news that if this goes through, this will be the first such case for the perp to go to death where the victim was not killed.

It is a hard question. I was taught by my Dean that no human has the right to decide death over another. Though, because I have the same background, I have to admit that that thought goes through my head nearly every day. My original perp never even got reported. But i know for sure one other (that was never accused by the 3 of us he effected) went to jail for r***** a 16 yr old - then eventually they got around to booking him for the damage he caused his daughter, tho only on neglect, I believe... one of several things he should have been accused of.

it certainly would stop some of the rampent occurances that happen from repeat offenders. So many of them are never reported or tried. Or of course, the families protect the abuser and deem the victim crazy. but perhaps if it did qualify for the death penalty, less people would do it? Or would they take it even further and make sure their victims couldn't report them? =( Methinks there is no easy answer.
kiya

I'm going to do something totally awful here, I'm sorry, I'm really really sorry. I am not going to give any excuses for what I say here. I know I'm awful for putting up any kind of defense here.

But.... death? I'm against the death penalty in general, so I admit, I'm biased. [and besides, it doesn't exist in canada anymore] But, really, death?

I admit, in some cases, it's justified. But what about a person who turns themselves in, or someone who acted once and never again? What about cases of the people who don't deserve to die, who do so anyways because everyone hates child abuse and the law says they can die? And, then, when do we start executing people for their thoughts, or their fantasies? How do we define what "a little to far" is?

Child abuse is one of the worst things in the world. But what about the ones that never did anything, who live constantly knowing most of the world hates them? The ones who are so guilty that they want to die? I'm afraid of the idea of having "thought police". And as things escalade in a world where it's okay to kill people for committing these acts, who knows where it will lead. I'm all for sending them to prison for life; but I just can't support the idea of using the death penalty.

I have a feeling that no one else is going to support me in this; and that' okay. But I felt I had to present a side that maybe no one else would.

Thank-you and I'm sorry.

Plus - it is my feeling, my opinion that if the person who abused me was given a death sentence then I would end up feeling guilty that I reported him. While I might think, know, he was a monster, he had a family, a mother, a father, and brothers. What would they be feeling if he was put to death by the state? Plus, all the time that case would be appealed and all the surrounding publicity - no thanks. Just lock the perpetrators up - forever and ever.I do not want their punishment to be trivial - I just do not want them dead on my account.

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Itadakimasu said:
I admit, in some cases, it's justified. But what about a person who turns themselves in, or someone who acted once and never again?

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While I can understand what you are saying here with the many WHAT ABOUT this and WHAT ABOUT that..... I still have to ask -
What about the child that was raped (once) and now her life is over? - for while she/he is not physically dead, the life and persons she/he was born to be is now changed forever, never to the be same again.

What about Her/His LIFE that was taken by another for nothing more than sexual pleasure or some kind of control issue? - that is why I ask if Sexual Abuse / Rape should be Punishable by Death.... for after one has gone thru sexual abuse/rape as a child (even just once) they might as well be dead - so there you have it - a life for a life.

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Itadakimasu said:
How do we define what "a little to far" is?

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Rape is to far.......

Molestation is to far.......

Using objects on them is to far.......

Allowing animals into the act is to far.......

Sharing the child with ones buddies is to far.......

I guess I should have defined my term of sexual abuse better (even though sexual abuse with out penetration) is still enough to send any child or adult over the mental hill to despair and depression for the rest of their life..... never to be the same again.

Should I advocate the death penalty for my mother?

I'm going to once again have to be an awful person.

I have never appreciated more what a serious thing abuse is. But I just can't justify killing a person for it. Not because many of them don't deserve it [they do]. But because I don't know where it would lead; like I said, I am terrified by the idea of "thought police". I am terrified of the idea of people being killed legaly because of what they think or fantasize, no matter what they think about. I am terrified that when I am older, I, too, will be persecuted because of what I think. I am terrified that guilt-ridden, depressed people who are atrracted to children, but have never acted on it, will be targeted and sent to jail.

Actually, I'm crying. Your words brought tears to my eyes, because it's so true. I can't even begin to imagine that kind of pain. I was emotionally abused for a good portion of my life, by my parents and by other kids, but I can't begin to imagine it.

Whether the death penalty should be brought in I think depends on the case; I'm still opposed to the idea though.

Thank-you.

Not only has the person who abused me ruined my life...he ruined my mother and fathers life.....he has spoiled what I have with my family to a large extent....

death maybe is too easy ...... maybe we should do to them what they did to us .... leave them mentally scarred for life after a nasty accident with a baseball bat.......

I dont think anyone who has never been sexually abused by a 6 foot tall fat man when they are only 8 years old could possibly understand .... maybe this kind of conversation should be left off the boards imho......or at least put a trigger warning

Jinny

If it was up to me I would tattoo P on their foreheads and let the public deal with them

This might sound a bit twisted, but killing them isn't enough..
it's too quick, not enough pain.
they deserve to be tortured.. they should have to go through what they put us through.. thing is, if they were abused as we were, the sick b-stards would probably enjoy it..
aghhh i don't know.
Kill them i guess. but slowly.
painfully.

Sorry if that sounded twisted..
Kelly. x

Kelly if you're twisted then so am I

holding your hand, Kerry xxxxxxx

I'm gonna join the bad guys here, I agree with Kelly.....

The problem is though, a large majority never even go to jail here in this state, this always pisses me off when you here one that gets to walk free and only have to register as a sex offender.

Then in the same day in the same court someone go's to prison for selling drugs...I'm not defending the drug dealers,it just seems crazy to me to lock them up and not alot of the sex offenders...

When my sister was abused and it was reported in the 80's, they would not do anything at all...not even send it to court

btw..Rap

that was in the state of Florida..in Naples

In th UK the flaming offenders get all the rights mostly.... the victims have to go through so much HELL to prove it happened....sex offenders are rehabilitated in villages like mine and not told....they reoffend......so it goes on....they should all be castrated IMHO, so many children and women have been sexually harmed in some way by paedophiles and perverts who hae been put back into the community.....it really pisses me off



We actually had a sex offender living next to the pub in our village!!!!! well you can imagine how I reacted.....by then he had disappeared....... coward.......

sorry, this subjuect REALLY MAKES ME ANGRY

jin xxxxxxxx

For male abusers, I'd be content with castration in cases where it was rape or child abuse. Abusers don't do it for the sex but for the power; take the power. Make the organ only good for peeing/unable to rise again. Don't know what I'd recommend for women abusers.

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Perna said:
For male abusers, I'd be content with castration in cases where it was rape or child abuse.

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As I read this part I felt "Right On - Castrate Them" I could go for that - but them my excitement was taken from me and I thought...... what about their hands, what about their mouths?

For there are more ways to sexually abuse or rape a person than with a penis (this I know all to well).

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Itadakimasu said:
I have never appreciated more what a serious thing abuse is. But I just can't justify killing a person for it. Not because many of them don't deserve it [they do]. But because I don't know where it would lead; like I said, I am terrified by the idea of "thought police".

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Please know that you are not the bad guy for thinking / feeling different and you are not hated for it........ I can understand your side of this topic as you have already stated that you have a natural fear of "thought police" - that which btw I seriously doubt would ever happen for people CANNOT read minds.

I learned long ago that 90% of what we fear never comes true..... and by giving in to that fear we are just losing out on life - now doing something about it is an entirely different subject.


Thank YOU for Crying with Me - from the pain I still live with thirty years later.

Jinny's quote:

"If it was up to me I would tattoo P on their foreheads and let the public deal with them "

Far more humane than my idea - making it so the men who do that sing soprano for the rest of their days...

But all this 'eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth will leave eveyone blind and toothless" (fiddler on the roof)
We have to learn to stop abuse before it ever starts. teaching respect to ALL living things from infantcy.

Yes, there are more ways to sexually abuse but abuse is usually about power, not sex. Take away a man's power and you would take away his "interest" in abuse I think. No pride or control there having to use hands or mouth. It reminds me a little bit of of flashers and how if children/little girls are taught to point and laugh that "deflates" and embarasses them as they are in it for the shock value.

I don't know what I would do about women abusers, teachers or care-givers, etc. as their abuse is about control but, as you say, there's hands and mouth for them, no "obvious" sexual symbol of their womanhood/"control". And, castration doesn't take away sexual urges like it would for a man. I don't know that I would castrate a man; I'd be a bit more punitive and leave everything intact, they just wouldn't ever be able to get their penis "up" and hard; would have to hold it up with both hands even to pee. I'd humiliate them for their misuse of that organ.

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Itadakimasu said:
I am terrified by the idea of "thought police".

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Have you been reading George Orwell 1984 ?

If not, don't, this is the only place I have heard this idea before...until now...it really makes that idea real in his book

my opinion is totally against the death penalty at all costs. there are several reasons:

it actually costs more to put someone to death than to keep them alive (if you don't believe me talk to my boyfriend with a degree in criminology).

who are we to say that killing someone is okay?

killing someone doesnt deter violence. we kill someone to show that killing someone is wrong? that doesnt make any sense.

also, wishing any kind of harm upon the person who violated you just brings them down to their level. what better person are you if you would do something of the same, if not worse, effect to them? doesnt that make you the same as them? they wished harm on you and made it happen. you wish harm on them and make it happen. whats the difference?

in the end, leading a better life IS the ultimate revenge. and if you want to take a vindictive standpoint - death is an easy way out. wouldnt you want them to suffer in jail knowing what they did everyday of their lives? people who rape and molest little kids are beaten in jail. even to criminals, they are lower than low. they are scum of the earth to other criminals in jail. so wouldnt you rather them to tortured everyday of their lives?

thats taking the revenge approach to it. and finally, it just scares me to think that i could have such sick thoughts of killing someone.

when i think of my ex boyfriend, i dont think of pain or torturing him and "making him pay" anymore. i think of how much he is suffering. i think of how much therapy would help him and how bad of a childhood he had growing up. i have empathy and sympathy for him and wish he could get better, not die. its taken a couple of years to finally feel that way but i honestly do now. i think getting to that point is just simply growing as a person and everyone does it at their own rate.

to say it just to vent is one thing. but to never allow yourself to get to the point where you can say "im okay" is another and to actually wish a harm that goes to the point of death is on a totally different playing field.

hope i didnt offend. and please dont think im speaking out of context. i know i have not been through as much as you, rhap and i dont mean to belittle you or demean your pain and suffering. just thought id offer another perspective.

Salukigirl, the argument is, killing a sexual abuser so that that particular sexual abuser cannot abuse again. There's no discussion of whether it is morally "right" or not.

It only costs more money to put an inmate to death because of the legal system and number of chances we give to appeal; it does not literally cost more; not all states costs are the same. For the sake of this discussion, I think we're just literally killing them, no appeal. One sexual abuse strike and you're out. The "purpose" is to keep other possible people from this one person's abuse from being abused; not to stop additional abuse "out there". If each sexual abuser could be totally stopped after only one abuse, there would be fewer abuses, not because of any "lesson" it would teach to others but because the sheer number of abusers would be dramatically cut. An abuser would not be able to abuse his/her subsequent children, etc. so more non-abused children would be being raised and there wouldn't be as much "passing down" of the abuse dynamic. Not as many children would "learn" it.

I also don't think anyone is suggesting this is practical or doable or even a good idea; it's just a spur-of-the-moment "wish" thing, an imaginative fantasy. Sexual abuse (all abuse) is too complex to judge in an all-or-nothing sense (how do you judge date rape when it's a he said/she said affair and is one going to kill a 22 year old for having consensual sex with a 14 year old who lied about her age?) and killing one's father/brother/spouse/mother, etc. would not be very helpful to a survivor's emotional mindset I don't think; kind of a cutting off of the nose to spite the face scenario.

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Perna: I also don't think anyone is suggesting this is practical or doable or even a good idea; it's just a spur-of-the-moment "wish" thing, an imaginative fantasy.

That was my sense of the thread as well. People are venting the extent of their rage and pain as well as their desire to prevent others from going through whatever they did.

Should the death penalty for sexual abuse ever become a reality, I think Pita expressed a very good point on page 1:
it is my feeling, my opinion that if the person who abused me was given a death sentence then I would end up feeling guilty that I reported him.

I don't think most people want to feel responsible for the death of another human being, although if their abuser was to accidentally drive off the edge of a cliff... they might find a sense of relief in the knowledge that he or she was gone and could never hurt anyone else again.

i said in there that i wasnt trying to offend anyone. others were giving their opinions so i did too. just trying to shed some light.

and why wouldnt treatment or required therapy do the same thing as killing them? i know you are just venting.... i was just stating an opinion. sorry, ill stay out then.

No, salukigirl, don't go! You can't offend anyone I don't think as it's just a fantasy exercise. I am not for death myself (but don't know of any treatment and therapy that works) I found the question a little subtle though with its idea that it wasn't for "society" or to rehabilitate like most things are done but was merely a "numbers" idea. Literally get rid of the "problem" and there'd be less of a problem. Your opinion is valid/important, I just wasn't sure you were looking at the question that way.